Is Baptismal Regeneration False?

[Phil W]

Being dunked is not suffering with christ! Maybe you need basic english before you get to basic greek.

With faith that Romans 6 explains water baptism correctly, and that my "immersion" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection were real, the evidence is written in verse 7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
Your "take" on baptism doesn't seem to involve that kind of faith.

Once again you do not need to read the bible- when you rose out of the water you implied you were endued with perfect knowledge of all right and wrong and you have been living in that right ever since.

No I haven't implied that.
In fact I have twice written that I pray to grow in grace and knowledge, as per 2 Peter 3:18.

No need to learn how to give- you give perfectly, no need to learn love-you love perfectlyi, no need to learn to pray you have been praying perfectly, no need to learn abou tthe wiles of the devil, you have avoided them perfectly, no need to learn to protect the stumbling brethren- you are too perfect fpor that!

If the "doctrine which is according to Godliness", (1 Tim 6:3), is so foreign to you, perhaps we can start over and address that instead of baptismal regeneration?

No need to learn about teh love of god- He has no love left if one who professes faith in Him screws up once!
Thanks but no thanks- I will keep the Jesus of the Bible and not Phil W.

Yet, I am still free from sin.
What I learned about God is that He has mercifully, gracefully freed us from the powers of the devil, the flesh, and from sin.
I give Him glory, honor, and my complete self to honor Him.

 

[nolidad]

Well I leave this conversation. I hand you to the Lord. Your arrogance precludes you from seeing truth.

I hope you never sin, but I fear when you do- you shall crumble and spend years as a POW of the Spiritual war until you learn what Gods' word says!

I cannot wish you well in your philosophical path, for it , though nice sounding, is a dangerous path.

 

[nolidad]

With faith that Romans 6 explains water baptism correctly, and that my "immersion" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection were real, the evidence is written in verse 7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
Your "take" on baptism doesn't seem to involve that kind of faith.


No I haven't implied that.
In fact I have twice written that I pray to grow in grace and knowledge, as per 2 Peter 3:18.


If the "doctrine which is according to Godliness", (1 Tim 6:3), is so foreign to you, perhaps we can start over and address that instead of baptismal regeneration?


Yet, I am still free from sin.
What I learned about God is that He has mercifully, gracefully freed us from the powers of the devil, the flesh, and from sin.
I give Him glory, honor, and my complete self to honor Him.

But if you have ceased from sin you need not grow in grace and knowledge-- Paul could say that because He knew he was not sinlessly perfect. YOu proclaim you already are! YOu are full of grace

No 1 Tim 6:3 is not foreign to me, I take it with all of the NT passages though.

I give HIm my complete self as well, sometinme I fail and then thank God for 1 JOhn 1:9 WHICH YOU DENY FOR BELIEVERS!

 

[Phil W]

Well I leave this conversation. I hand you to the Lord. Your arrogance precludes you from seeing truth.

Would that be the "truth" Jesus said could set us free from committing sin...in John 8:32-34?

I hope you never sin, but I fear when you do- you shall crumble and spend years as a POW of the Spiritual war until you learn what Gods' word says!

That fear is unwarranted.
I'm a servant of Him that won the war.

I cannot wish you well in your philosophical path, for it , though nice sounding, is a dangerous path.

It is only dangerous to those who preach darkness.

 

[Phil W]

But if you have ceased from sin you need not grow in grace and knowledge

Rubbish.
As I am promised I will never be tempted above what I can handle, (1 Cor 10:13), my growth in grace and knowledge enables me to confront worse and worse situations with the backing of Christ Jesus.

-- Paul could say that because He knew he was not sinlessly perfect. YOu proclaim you already are! YOu are full of grace

Do you consider Paul a hypocrite for writing..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)?
Or..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
Or..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

I give HIm my complete self as well, sometimes I fail and then thank God for 1 JOhn 1:9 WHICH YOU DENY FOR BELIEVERS!

The key word from above is "sometimes".
Why not "turn from" sin forever?
Why not kill the old man and be reborn from God's seed...which is incorruptible?
Why not quit failing?

If men would "confess their sins", and walk in the light, they too could remain in the light forever.
Nothing can pluck me from my Father's hand.

It does require a baptismal regeneration though.

 

[nolidad]

Rubbish.
As I am promised I will never be tempted above what I can handle, (1 Cor 10:13), my growth in grace and knowledge enables me to confront worse and worse situations with the backing of Christ Jesus.


Do you consider Paul a hypocrite for writing..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)?
Or..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
Or..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)


The key word from above is "sometimes".
Why not "turn from" sin forever?
Why not kill the old man and be reborn from God's seed...which is incorruptible?
Why not quit failing?

If men would "confess their sins", and walk in the light, they too could remain in the light forever.
Nothing can pluck me from my Father's hand.

It does require a baptismal regeneration though.

We are all promised to not be tempted beyond what we can handle


I do not consider Paul a hypocrite- but you in your doctrine have to!
Paul declared near the end of his life- that he wasn't perfect! The writers of Hebrews also said let us keep moving on towards perfection!

Every verse you write is true! But also 1 John 1:9 is also true for believers as well!

I do negate the call to perfection, I just know that we all live in bodies of sin and death and we are not so wise and powerful as you claim to be in grace.

You reject the verses of Christs ever abiding presence in the believer through the Holy Spirit. You have placed your own caveat- He will stay only if one is sinlessly perfect! that is not biblical.

I also see the writers of the NT speak of our position in Christ and our experience growing into that position.

YOu fail to recognize that every one who in faith is trusting in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sins is in the light and is a child of god. As the Scriptures say- Jesus is my righteousness!

You have God willing to forgive the sin of the unbeliever but unwilling to forgive the sin of the believer.
This is not Scripture! He loves His children far more as I showed from Romans!

Nothing will separate me from the love of god in Christ and nothing can pluck me out of Gods hands.

You would do well if you stopped looking down your nose at your brothers and sisters who are not perfect yet in their experience! For we are perfect in the eyes of our Father and you are besmirching the apple of His eye!

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
God has made His children perfect 1st now He is making us holy! We are growing in our perfection! See every believer that ever lived (except you of course in your mastery since your rebirth) We had to learn bit by bit as we study Scripture. Not just the huge easily defined sins, but those little attitudes, those moments of envy, etc.etc.



From a previous thread you said God does not hold us guilty of sin that we are ignorant of!
So are you declaring that people who have never heard the gospel, have grown up for millenia without the Word of God are innocent of murder, adultery, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, all sin because they are ignorant of who god is and what He commands? YOu call them innocent in Gods eyes!

Do you fellowship in a local church? Does your pastor and all the believers in the pews think they are just as sinlessly perfect in their own eyes as you think in your own?

 

[BABerean2]

But if you have ceased from sin you need not grow in grace and knowledge-- Paul could say that because He knew he was not sinlessly perfect.

The passage below proves you are correct about the fact that the Apostles were not perfect.

Paul had to correct Peter, because Peter was treating the Jewish believers differently than the Gentile believers.

Gal 2:11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;
Gal 2:12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

.

 

[Phil W]

We are all promised to not be tempted beyond what we can handle

So who then refuses the escapes?
Lovers of God?
I know that isn't true.

I do not consider Paul a hypocrite- but you in your doctrine have to!
Paul declared near the end of his life- that he wasn't perfect! The writers of Hebrews also said let us keep moving on towards perfection!

I can't force you to believe a thing you won't even consider despite the proof being handed to you.

Every verse you write is true! But also 1 John 1:9 is also true for believers as well!

Yes, it is for believers, but at the very beginning of their walk in the light...not ten times a year...or what ever.

I do negate the call to perfection, I just know that we all live in bodies of sin and death and we are not so wise and powerful as you claim to be in grace.

All that ...in spite of Romans 6:6-7?
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin."
I no longer live in a "body of sin", and you don't need to either.

You reject the verses of Christs ever abiding presence in the believer through the Holy Spirit. You have placed your own caveat- He will stay only if one is sinlessly perfect! that is not biblical.

It is written..."If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Corinthians 3:17)
I beg you to reconsider your POV !

I also see the writers of the NT speak of our position in Christ and our experience growing into that position.
You fail to recognize that every one who in faith is trusting in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sins is in the light and is a child of god. As the Scriptures say- Jesus is my righteousness!

Scripture also says..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
Where is the trust in that?

You have God willing to forgive the sin of the unbeliever but unwilling to forgive the sin of the believer.
This is not Scripture! He loves His children far more as I showed from Romans!

Do you know what I CAN'T beleive?
That anyone who acknowledges that someone died for their sins would have the audacity to commit more sin!!!

Nothing will separate me from the love of God in Christ and nothing can pluck me out of Gods hands.

You can't introduce sin into God.

You would do well if you stopped looking down your nose at your brothers and sisters who are not perfect yet in their experience! For we are perfect in the eyes of our Father and you are besmirching the apple of His eye!

I'm not looking down, I'm looking up from bended knee, imploring you to believe you CAN live without offense to God or to man.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
God has made His children perfect 1st now He is making us holy! We are growing in our perfection! See every believer that ever lived (except you of course in your mastery since your rebirth) We had to learn bit by bit as we study Scripture. Not just the huge easily defined sins, but those little attitudes, those moments of envy, etc.etc.

Why does your perfection include sin while mine doesn't?
Of course I don't believe in gradual sanctification, but instant regeneration by God at my water baptism.
My old sin loving self was killed there.
Thanks be to God !

From a previous thread you said God does not hold us guilty of sin that we are ignorant of!
So are you declaring that people who have never heard the gospel, have grown up for millenia without the Word of God are innocent of murder, adultery, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, all sin because they are ignorant of who god is and what He commands? YOu call them innocent in Gods eyes!

Nope, as everyone has a conscience, all men know those things are wrong...and they have developed their own laws to deal with it.

Do you fellowship in a local church? Does your pastor and all the believers in the pews think they are just as sinlessly perfect in their own eyes as you think in your own?

The church is the body of Christ...right? Bone of His bone-flesh of His flesh... (
How can they be in Christ and have sin on their consciences?
Unless they actually think there is sin in Christ.

 

[Phil W]

The passage below proves you are correct about the fact that the Apostles were not perfect.

Paul had to correct Peter, because Peter was treating the Jewish believers differently than the Gentile believers.

Gal 2:11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;
Gal 2:12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
.

By "not perfect", are you accusing Peter of sin because he didn't use his position to show the visiting Jews that the Gentiles were not under the Law and customs?
(Technically, neither were the Jews.)
(I sure wish we had Peter's response and the ensuing meeting with the Jews written of somewhere.)

 

[nolidad]

So who then refuses the escapes?
Lovers of God?
I know that isn't true.


I can't force you to believe a thing you won't even consider despite the proof being handed to you.


Yes, it is for believers, but at the very beginning of their walk in the light...not ten times a year...or what ever.


All that ...in spite of Romans 6:6-7?
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin."
I no longer live in a "body of sin", and you don't need to either.


It is written..."If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Corinthians 3:17)
I beg you to reconsider your POV !


Scripture also says..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
Where is the trust in that?


Do you know what I CAN'T beleive?
That anyone who acknowledges that someone died for their sins would have the audacity to commit more sin!!!


You can't introduce sin into God.


I'm not looking down, I'm looking up from bended knee, imploring you to believe you CAN live without offense to God or to man.


Why does your perfection include sin while mine doesn't?
Of course I don't believe in gradual sanctification, but instant regeneration by God at my water baptism.
My old sin loving self was killed there.
Thanks be to God !


Nope, as everyone has a conscience, all men know those things are wrong...and they have developed their own laws to deal with it.


The church is the body of Christ...right? Bone of His bone-flesh of His flesh... (
How can they be in Christ and have sin on their consciences?
Unless they actually think there is sin in Christ.

Well sometimes saints just do not take the way of escape- you should love them.

Your doctrine teaches no forgiveness for the saints once they are regenerated.
You in your pharisaic attitude just can't see God is filled with mercy on His children.

You : I can't force you to believe a thing you won't even consider despite the proof being handed to you.

Well I do believe it is possible. I just know you haven't reached what you say you lice- because your whole attitude is sin and your position is unbiblical.

You: " I can't force you to believe a thing you won't even consider despite the proof being handed to you."

So you don't believe Paul is saved! Ok then! At least we got one thing settled!


"Do you know what I CAN'T beleive?
That anyone who acknowledges that someone died for their sins would have the audacity to commit more sin!!!"

That is why I am glad you are not God! He forgives 70 X 7 I know you can't believe it for you have a spirit of the Pharisees!

Luke 18: 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


You: "I'm not looking down, I'm looking up from bended knee, imploring you to believe you CAN live without offense to God or to man."

I am getting better all the time! thanks to HIm. But I am still learning every day those secret sins.

I am glad you are so perfect you never fall for the wiles of the devil! That you can recognize his stealth assaults on you and defeat them. That is not the way for nearly all the saints of god- but we are getting better!

I guess you disagree with Paul about the Corinthian saints as well. He called them saints and yet they were very carnal and divided! You have no room for such lowly sinners in your church!

You : "Nope, as everyone has a conscience, all men know those things are wrong...and they have developed their own laws to deal with it."

NIce dodge! You have lived a shelters life . Billions have no conscience of the laws of God- but to you they are guiltless for they have not heard of the God of the bible.


You: "The church is the body of Christ...right? Bone of His bone-flesh of His flesh... (
How can they be in Christ and have sin on their consciences?
Unless they actually think there is sin in Christ."

This is not what I asked you and you know it! Do you go to a local church? do you have a pastor teacher you are under who believes the same way you do? Do all the members of that local reflection of the body of Christ hold the same opinion as you?

Phil W. declares that withi God once you sin after you are regenerated you are living in darkness and have not he spirit of God.

Jesus says:
Matthew 18:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I would trust Jesus more than Phil!

As long as you deny the biblical truth of positional truth and experiential truth, as long as you deny that the old man while declared dead still seeks to gain control, as long as you think you can recognize every trap the devil lays, as long as you fail to realize that saints in their new man cannot sin, but in the old man can and that this physical body is prone ot sin, you will walk with that haughty spirit you have!

 

[nolidad]

By "not perfect", are you accusing Peter of sin because he didn't use his position to show the visiting Jews that the Gentiles were not under the Law and customs?
(Technically, neither were the Jews.)
(I sure wish we had Peter's response and the ensuing meeting with the Jews written of somewhere.)

Well like it or not-Gods Word declared Peter sinned, and that Paul near the endof his life was not like you --he was still not perfect nor had attained to sinless perfection- so in your lonely heaven you won't saewe them. The rest of us will and rejoice in Christ.

People who know all of Gods word and not just cherry pick verses to justify being a pharisee know we are called to live hol;y. but that when we fail- God is not done with us! He teaches, trains as walks with us! See Jesus paid the price for all my sins!

Phil W. would have us believe Jesus did not!

 

[BABerean2]

By "not perfect", are you accusing Peter of sin because he didn't use his position to show the visiting Jews that the Gentiles were not under the Law and customs?
(Technically, neither were the Jews.)
(I sure wish we had Peter's response and the ensuing meeting with the Jews written of somewhere.)

It is Paul who is accusing Peter, instead of me...

Gal 2:11

(CJB) Furthermore, when Kefa came to Antioch, I opposed him publicly, because he was clearly in the wrong.

(ESV) But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

(Geneva) And when Peter was come to Antiochia, I withstood him to his face: for he was to be condemned.
(Greek NT TR) οτε δε ηλθεν πετρος εις αντιοχειαν κατα προσωπον αυτω αντεστην οτι κατεγνωσμενος ην

(GW) When Cephas came to Antioch, I had to openly oppose him because he was completely wrong.

(LITV-TSP) But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was to be blamed.

(KJV) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

(KJV+) ButG1161 whenG3753 PeterG4074 was comeG2064 toG1519 Antioch,G490 I withstoodG436 himG846 toG2596 the face,G4383 becauseG3754 he wasG2258 to be blamed.G2607

(NKJV) Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;

(YLT) And when Peter came to Antioch, to the face I stood up against him, because he was blameworthy,

.


.

 

[Phil W]

Well sometimes saints just do not take the way of escape- you should love them.

Then they are not saints, but I do love them enough to keep presenting the way of God in truth.

Your doctrine teaches no forgiveness for the saints once they are regenerated.
You in your pharisaic attitude just can't see God is filled with mercy on His children.

Sin proves a lack of regeneration...they are "the same old thing".
But I will never withhold the opportunity for them to actually get started in Christ.

You : I can't force you to believe a thing you won't even consider despite the proof being handed to you.
Well I do believe it is possible. I just know you haven't reached what you say you lice- because your whole attitude is sin and your position is unbiblical.

You believe "it" is possible but...?
Who cares what another man is like? You believe sinlessness is possible, so do it instead of castigating the messenger.

That is why I am glad you are not God! He forgives 70 X 7 I know you can't believe it for you have a spirit of the Pharisees!

When will God stop forgiving?
At death.
I hope you will permanently turn from sin before it is too late.

Luke 18: 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Which man humbled himself?
Certainly not the man happy with the status-quo.
The one who changed his behavior is the one that satisfies God.

I am getting better all the time! thanks to HIm. But I am still learning every day those secret sins.

If you are depending on knowing the complete list of unGodly doings before you quit doing the ones you know, you will run out of time.

I am glad you are so perfect you never fall for the wiles of the devil! That you can recognize his stealth assaults on you and defeat them. That is not the way for nearly all the saints of god- but we are getting better!

It is the way of all in Christ Jesus.
There is no sin in Christ Jesus.

I guess you disagree with Paul about the Corinthian saints as well. He called them saints and yet they were very carnal and divided! You have no room for such lowly sinners in your church!

I disagree with your interpretation of the situation.
Paul's letter was to the church, but not everyone there was actually in Christ.

NIce dodge! You have lived a shelters life . Billions have no conscience of the laws of God- but to you they are guiltless for they have not heard of the God of the bible.

Bible verse, please.
It is written..."For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" (Rom 2:14)
Why aren't those who disobey God's law a law unto themselves?
As I already have written, everyone is given a conscience by God.

You: "The church is the body of Christ...right? Bone of His bone-flesh of His flesh...
How can they be in Christ and have sin on their consciences?
Unless they actually think there is sin in Christ."

This is not what I asked you and you know it! Do you go to a local church? do you have a pastor teacher you are under who believes the same way you do? Do all the members of that local reflection of the body of Christ hold the same opinion as you?

Yes, to all your questions.

Phil W. declares that withi God once you sin after you are regenerated you are living in darkness and have not he spirit of God.

Two misquotes make that a moot point.
First, those "with God" cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
Second, the regenerated have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts...{Gal 5:24)
They don't sin.

Jesus says:
Matthew 18:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
I would trust Jesus more than Phil!

As long as you deny the biblical truth of positional truth and experiential truth, as long as you deny that the old man while declared dead still seeks to gain control, as long as you think you can recognize every trap the devil lays, as long as you fail to realize that saints in their new man cannot sin, but in the old man can and that this physical body is prone ot sin, you will walk with that haughty spirit you have!

Why isn't your position your experience?
I have been freed from sin by the grace of God, and according to scriptures like..."And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
I no longer "walk according to the course of this world"?

 

[Phil W]

Well like it or not-Gods Word declared Peter sinned, and that Paul near the endof his life was not like you --he was still not perfect nor had attained to sinless perfection- so in your lonely heaven you won't saewe them. The rest of us will and rejoice in Christ.

The bible doesn't say Peter sinned.
You seem to be grasping for justification for sin by using the "blame" of others to accommodate your own rebellion.
You should stop that.
Paul didn't have his glorified body yet. {Phil 3:21)

People who know all of Gods word and not just cherry pick verses to justify being a pharisee know we are called to live holy. but that when we fail- God is not done with us! He teaches, trains as walks with us! See Jesus paid the price for all my sins.
Phil W. would have us believe Jesus did not!

1 John 1:9 and 1 John 2:2 are available to all who will CEASE FROM SIN.
To imagine you will find mercy while refusing to repent of sin is ludicrous.[/QUOTE]

 

[Phil W]

It is Paul who is accusing Peter, instead of me...

Gal 2:11

(CJB) Furthermore, when Kefa came to Antioch, I opposed him publicly, because he was clearly in the wrong.

(ESV) But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

(Geneva) And when Peter was come to Antiochia, I withstood him to his face: for he was to be condemned.
(Greek NT TR) οτε δε ηλθεν πετρος εις αντιοχειαν κατα προσωπον αυτω αντεστην οτι κατεγνωσμενος ην

(GW) When Cephas came to Antioch, I had to openly oppose him because he was completely wrong.

(LITV-TSP) But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was to be blamed.

(KJV) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

(KJV+) ButG1161 whenG3753 PeterG4074 was comeG2064 toG1519 Antioch,G490 I withstoodG436 himG846 toG2596 the face,G4383 becauseG3754 he wasG2258 to be blamed.G2607

(NKJV) Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;

(YLT) And when Peter came to Antioch, to the face I stood up against him, because he was blameworthy.

No, it is you likening "blame" to sin.

 

[nolidad]

The bible doesn't say Peter sinned.
You seem to be grasping for justification for sin by using the "blame" of others to accommodate your own rebellion.
You should stop that.
Paul didn't have his glorified body yet. {Phil 3:21)


1 John 1:9 and 1 John 2:2 are available to all who will CEASE FROM SIN.
To imagine you will find mercy while refusing to repent of sin is ludicrous.

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Peter sinned He created division within the body! dissimulation is holding ones opinion above God and that is a sin!

If one ceases from sin they no longer need 1 John 1:9

Well let me tell you I do not justify sin- I confess it.

Calling me a rebel is once again presumption on your part which is a sin!

Paul wasn't perfect yet- and you have said we have to be perfect! Paul recognized he had not ceased from sin yet.



You : "Bible verse, please.
It is written..."For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" (Rom 2:14)
Why aren't those who disobey God's law a law unto themselves?
As I already have written, everyone is given a conscience by God.

And Romans also reminds us that the conscience condemns those without law and the law condemns those under the law so that every mouth may be stopped and the whole world guilty before God.


You: "1 John 1:9 and 1 John 2:2 are available to all who will CEASE FROM SIN.
To imagine you will find mercy while refusing to repent of sin is ludicrous"

Well to you it is ludicrous, simply because you do not know what repentance unto salvation means!

It also appears you have no clue what 1 John 1:9 means either.


YOu : "Why isn't your position your experience?
I have been freed from sin by the grace of God, and according to scriptures like..."And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
I no longer "walk according to the course of this world"?"

I also no longer walk according to the course of tis world! YOu think it means something the bible does not declare. I am becoming more convinced you are terrified of admitting any sin.

You justify it by saying that God does not hold you accountable for sins done in ignorance! Sin is sin- Jesus paid for the ones we know about and the ones we don't know about!

You : "Two misquotes make that a moot point.
First, those "with God" cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
Second, the regenerated have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts...{Gal 5:24)
They don't sin."

so then you in your doctrine believe that those who after trusting in teh death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin commit a sin after that act of faith which brings regeneration never got saved! OK then.


You : "It is the way of all in Christ Jesus.
There is no sin in Christ Jesus.

You are correct there is no sin in Christ!

as for me I am here:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Ephesians 2:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now learn what these mean and cease form you r spiritual arrogance.


You : "Yes, to all your questions."

So I do not misunderstand you- you are declaring before god that you pastor lives a sinlessly perfect life, and the members of your congregation also believe it requires a sinlessly perfect life in order to be saved!

Wow you guys need the gospel badly!

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

To this Phil W. adds and live a perfectly sinless life!

I hate this discussion, because it appears like I am promoting sin, which I am not! I am promoting the mercy of God! I really stand in doubt of you.

You have no knowledge of the compassion and mercy of God. You have a myopic view of Scripture- rejecting major portions to promote your own idolatry of sinless perfection.

I pity you really! Blinded by an arrogance to the reality of who Jesus is!