Is anybody that accepts "Christ" considered a "Christian"?

[Lady Bug]

I'm on another forum where Messianics are accepted fairly well. There are a few who have an issue with their theology by for the most part, the other christians do not mind them that much.

that's cool.

 

[ChavaK]

I'm on another forum where Messianics are accepted fairly well. There are a few who have an issue with their theology by for the most part, the other christians do not mind them that much.

Good to know. Given the basic theology is the same, I would think there shouldn't be any strife between the two groups.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I assume we are the only ones who haven't kicked you out - yes?

This is the only pro Jewish traditions forum I have ever been on.

Well, the ones that let anyone say anything aren't good forums to stay around either because they allow too much attacking other people.

But most of the Christian forums I liked didn't like me.

 

[Avodat]

Good to know. Given the basic theology is the same, I would think there shouldn't be any strife between the two groups.

The theology is similar, as you say, however, the problems we encounter are primarily from those who have fallen out with the Church they used to go, for whatever reason, and they see fit to assume that every Christian / congregation is the same as the one they hate and so they attack all Christians and every part of the Church. They just cannot let go and move on.

 

[Lulav]

The theology is similar, as you say, however, the problems we encounter are primarily from those who have fallen out with the Church they used to go, for whatever reason, and they see fit to assume that every Christian / congregation is the same as the one they hate and so they attack all Christians and every part of the Church. They just cannot let go and move on.

Sounds like you are dissing many of the long time members of this forum. Your perception of the problem is not in line with many here. Perhaps because you were not a minister of a Messianic congregation but rather a Christian one?


Those here who have 'come out of standard Christianity' have done so after repeated tries at various congregations, but with the conclusion that remains the same that Christianity basically teaches that the Old Testament is for the Jews and the things in it that are considered laws and holy days are also for only the Jews and they not only don't have to do them, but shouldn't do them. They have been ostracized by friends and family for believing the truth of G-d's Holy Torah.

As far as accusing anyone here of hating Christians or Christianity is slanderous and as you should well know as you cite the rules on a daily basis almost, is against the SOP.

Since you have drawn the line of yourself against 'they' meaning the members here that are Messianic, perhaps you would be better off in one of the other Christian faith forums?

 

[Tishri1]

The theology is similar, as you say, however, the problems we encounter are primarily from those who have fallen out with the Church they used to go, for whatever reason, and they see fit to assume that every Christian / congregation is the same as the one they hate and so they attack all Christians and every part of the Church. They just cannot let go and move on.

Bingo!!!!

 

[Lulav]

Originally Posted by Avodat

We will get tied up in terminology here so I'll try and be as inclusive as I can:

I do not believe that you can be a Christian / Messianic, in the true sense of the word, unless you attend a congregation / fellowship (Messianic or Christian) and are an active member of that community if you are able to be so (being housebound, or suffering from illness or having a disability may limit, or severely restrict, some people from being active members of the community)
​

Hah! Going to church or synagogue no more makes you a Christian/Messianic than standing in your garage makes you a car.
Many go for show, I've witnessed that for over 50 years.
You will be surprised one day to find that those who are truly of G-d were not the ones sitting in the pews, and they will be surprised also.

Lord, Lord, didn't I.....................?

Originally Posted by Lulav

Hah! Going to church or synagogue no more makes you a Christian/Messianic than standing in your garage makes you a car.

I've always loved the being in the garage analogy and so true.

I'm glad someone quoted this or I would never have seen it. Obviously the writer totally mis-understood what I said for some reason I know not

Here is what I actually said:

Originally Posted by Avodat
We will get tied up in terminology here so I'll try and be as inclusive as I can:

I do not believe that you can be a Christian / Messianic, in the true sense of the word, unless you attend a congregation / fellowship (Messianic or Christian) and are an active member of that community if you are able to be so (being housebound, or suffering from illness or having a disability may limit, or severely restrict, some people from being active members of the community)
​

I did not 'misunderstand' you, nor did I post anything but what you said. Your quote, word for word is found in my post above with exactly what you quoted here. Don't make it like I twisted your words, or 'misunderstood you'. You stated, plain and simple that according to you, a person cannot be Christian or Messianic unless they attend a congregation and are an active member of the community. Your quantification of this is no different than my old adage about the car in the garage, which many people got the gist of here, including our Chaplin.

The point I made was that you cannot be an effective Christian or Messianic unless and until you are, fully, a part of those communities.

No, that was not the point you made, you did not use the term 'effective'. And what is your definition of 'effective'?

To myself one is Messianic by seeking and following the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It's not about being a label. I am sure, no positive that when we stand before the throne it won't mean a thing if we said we were Christian or Messianic or attended services faithfully our whole lives and did all kinds of charitable things. Not that its not good to do good but the heart behind it. Many point to Sister Theresa as a Saint, and one who will certainly be in heaven for all her sacrifices and charitable works. But yet I understand that she taught that many paths lead to G-d, which is NOT what Yeshua taught.

Perhaps, as Messianics and Christians we are being encouraged NOT to be a part of a congregation / fellowship and, therefore, we do not need any sense of community. Kinda flies in the face of everything that people of faith hold to, regardless of which faith that might be, from Zoroastrianism to Paganism and on through Scientology and JW's to Judaism, Christianity, Islam and MJism - all have communities of believers and all work at that community spirit through gathering together. For us, as believers in the one true G_d, gathering together to worship, to pray and to build each other up, to encourage, to learn, to seek love and care IS being, fully, a part of the community, meeting together as a congregation / fellowship. Even house Churches, being isolationist by nature, eventually had to begin gathering groups of their people together once a month - as a congregation - then it soon became once a week and so a real community was born! Surprise, surprise, even MJ's meet together in congregations / fellowships!

There is nothing wrong with that, but to conclude that you are not a /Christian/Messianic if you don't participate is wrong. I don't believe that you should support any kind of congregation if your heart and spirit are telling you that what they are teaching is against G-d. Many have come to see this and have left even the Messianic congregations, but still wish to come together with like-minded believers and that is what this forum is about. And to dis them, or quantify who really is Messianic or not by what they do outside this forum is wrong.

Re the carless garage: I assume the person living in the garage has a reason to - maybe because they think they would rather have the car than just all the individual parts scattered round the garage, waiting for someone to come and build the car from all the bits & pieces. To keep the analogy going, Yeshua didn't come to work on the production line - he came as the breakdown man to fix the car that was having trouble being an effective means of transport! Toot! Toot!

Perhaps this saying isn't known across the pond or Europe, or wherever you are now.

But maybe you can understand this.

'Being in a bank doesn't make you money or a bank robber'

'Being in a bakery doesn't make you a sugar junkie'

'Being in an ocean doesn't make you a fish. '

This is all what we Yanks call, 'circumstantial'

Finding your fingerprints at the scene of a crime does not make you the criminal'

Just as being in a church or Synagogue make you a Christian, Jew or Messianic Jew.

Yeshua spoke extensively on this kind of thing, I would think you could relate it. He spoke about those who did things for outward appearances, but inside they were empty, dead.

I hope you understand now.
Here, I found another analogy, that is similar but maybe easier to understand.

"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a mechanic."

 

[Lady Bug]

Those here who have 'come out of standard Christianity' have done so after repeated tries at various congregations, but with the conclusion that remains the same that Christianity basically teaches that the Old Testament is for the Jews and the things in it that are considered laws and holy days are also for only the Jews and they not only don't have to do them, but shouldn't do them. They have been ostracized by friends and family for believing the truth of G-d's Holy Torah.

this is why I tend to think of myself as a Christian in terms of "follower of Christ" instead, because "Christianity" seems to be about everything that you said in this paragraph.

 

[Lulav]

Bingo!!!!

Really Tish? You look at us as Haters? :o

 

[Avodat]

Bingo!!!!

Thankfully, we don't see many coming in here, though it is rife in many MJ congregations.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Good to know. Given the basic theology is the same, I would think there shouldn't be any strife between the two groups.

I agree...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

... the problems we encounter are primarily from those who have fallen out with the Church they used to go, for whatever reason, and they see fit to assume that every Christian / congregation is the same as the one they hate and so they attack all Christians and every part of the Church. They just cannot let go and move on.

So true...

 

[HarrietS]

Depends what you mean as "accept"

If a person truly accepts Jesus as Savior
and Lord they are a christian.

Today, people think they are automatically
a christian if they were brought up in church
or just an american.

I was saved in my teens and didn't understand
Jesus as Lord til I was in my 20's.

They say that many went forward at Billy Graham's
crusades; but that many didn't truly get saved.
Maybe they were caught up in the emotion.

A christian is someone who looks to Jesus as
their example and strives daily to be like Him.

 

[visionary]

A christian is someone who looks to Jesus as
their example and strives daily to be like Him.

What does that look like? Rabbi Yeshua, King of the Jews, Messiah perhaps??

 

[Avodat]

What does that look like? Rabbi Yeshua, King of the Jews, Messiah perhaps??

Is there another?

 

[HarrietS]

What does it look like for us to follow Jesus and be like Him?

It is not for us to be a messiah or yeshua.

We are to be like His character. Humble, a servant,
accepting children and the unacceptables "outcasts"
I Cor. 13

Feed the hungry, visit those in prison and take care
of the widows and orphans.

 

[Avodat]

What does it look like for us to follow Jesus and be like Him?

It is not for us to be a messiah or yeshua.

We are to be like His character. Humble, a servant,
accepting children and the unacceptables "outcasts"
I Cor. 13

Feed the hungry, visit those in prison and take care
of the widows and orphans.

I don't think anyone is saying that

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Good to know. Given the basic theology is the same, I would think there shouldn't be any strife between the two groups.

But the basic theology is not the same.

Christians {God bless those loving people} can never have a sincere Messianic amongst them.

If the Messianic is worth his salt, he is going to cause strife in a Christian congregation whether its on the inter web or real life.

The Christians begin saying,'' Here is a man causing strife in our congregation and we need to act.''

Until Christians accept the feast of Tabernacles, Passover, and Pentecost, they will be another religion.

Gentiles accepting the feast of Tabernacles is Paramount, to a family being reunited.

What Prophet hasn't foretold that all nations will one day have the same feast of God in common?

 

[visionary]

What does it look like for us to follow Jesus and be like Him?

It is not for us to be a messiah or yeshua.

We are to be like His character. Humble, a servant,
accepting children and the unacceptables "outcasts"
I Cor. 13

Feed the hungry, visit those in prison and take care
of the widows and orphans.

Is it Him that you are imitating by going to the synagogue on Sabbath, attending the feasts, etc....??

 

[Lion King]

What does that look like? Rabbi Yeshua, King of the Jews, Messiah perhaps??

Some call Him that. Others call Him Teacher, Jesus, King of both the Jews and the Gentiles, the Christ, LORD etc.