Irrefutable evidence of 4th Commandment support by pro-Sunday sources

[BobRyan]

As you point out - the traditions of man are such that the commandment of God can and should be edited with the traditions of man.

Something Christ condemned in Mark 7:6-13.

But even in that error - they do admit that this weekly Sabbath commandment should be kept.

Some will do it when they think the fact will serve their point.

But does the church gather to worship every day? No?

That's the point. Read Hebrews 10:24-27 and see if it makes any sense in the context of gathering to worship God on a specific day and a specified time.

Then you can give consideration to the wisdom of setting aside a whole day, as far as is practical given your station in life, for rest and fellowship with God and your brothers and sisters in the faith.

Finally, you can draw a lesson from the third commandment (the sabbath commandment) and the many passages in the prophets that expand on the meaning of that day, and last of all (but most important) you can see what setting aside a day is intended to teach by reading Hebrews chapters three and four.

 

[Cribstyl]

Even Cribstyl's "Sabbath was made for man" thread title is worded just as the pro-Sunday sources (not just pro seventh day Sabbath sources) would have it.

in Christ,

Bob

Don't git it twisted....... Sabbath was made for the Children of Israel. That's why God made it an exclusive covenant between Himself and them.

 

[Proud Parrot]

You know, it's not like God is sitting on a throne somewhere and is going to get really upset because mere humans worship him outside of the parameters of a Gregorian calendar block.

Every day should be a day of worship and service to God.
It's silly to argue days of our mortal week as if God's going to hold it against us if we get it wrong.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You know, it's not like God is sitting on a throne somewhere and is going to get really upset because mere humans worship him outside of the parameters of a Gregorian calendar block.

Every day should be a day of worship and service to God.
It's silly to argue days of our mortal week as if God's going to hold it against us if we get it wrong.

Thank you. This is one of the most sensible posts I have read on this topic in a very long time.

 

[BobRyan]

Don't git it twisted....... Sabbath was made for the Children of Israel. That's why God made it an exclusive covenant between Himself and them.

By contrast Christ said "The Sabbath was made for mankind not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27.

Now what is interesting about this - is that this is a clear and obvious Bible doctrine that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship admits to seeing.

How much more than will it be "admitted" by actual seventh day Sabbath keeping Christians who choose to honor Christ our Creator's memorial of His own work in making life on planet Earth!!

"Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas..." is part of the last message given to the world before the 2nd coming according to Rev 14.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You know, it's not like God is sitting on a throne somewhere and is going to get really upset because mere humans worship him outside of the parameters of a Gregorian calendar block.

Every day should be a day of worship and service to God.
It's silly to argue days of our mortal week as if God's going to hold it against us if we get it wrong.

Certainly we can all have some time for worship each day - but according to God there was a tree that Adam and Eve should not eat from - and according to God there is a day of the week that mankind is to "remember to keep holy".

It may seem like a small thing to us - as did the selection of that tree seem like a small thing to Adam and Eve.

But God has placed his stamp on it - and gives to each free will just as He allowed Adam and Eve to choose whether they would obey on such a small issue.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Even Cribstyl's "Sabbath was made for man" thread title is worded just as the pro-Sunday sources (not just pro seventh day Sabbath sources) would have it.

Don't git it twisted....... Sabbath was made for the Children of Israel. That's why God made it an exclusive covenant between Himself and them.

Don't be confused - the point of my post was not that you actually agree with the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship on the areas where I agree with them. My point was that the thread title that you chose was on a subject that IS addressed by this majority of even pro-sunday scholarship when it comes to the Sabbath Commandment - and even they oppose your view on that one point (as with so many other points) -- yet your title fits the subject that they address.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Cribstyl]

Don't be confused - the point of my post was not that you actually agree with the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship on the areas where I agree with them. My point was that the thread title that you chose was on a subject that IS addressed by this majority of even pro-sunday scholarship when it comes to the Sabbath Commandment - and even they oppose your view on that one point (as with so many other points) -- yet your title fits the subject that they address.

in Christ,

Bob

We get it, you tend to quote whoever, whether they agree with your brand or not.

 

[Angelquill]

Are you grace guys still playing that "Sabbath was given to Israel only" bit?
I thought we covered that.

It is a false teaching.

The Ten Commandments are a part of the New Covenant.
Jesus covered them in His teachings...yes, all ten of them.
He summed them up with His Two Great Commandments...yes, all ten of them.

And again...what earthly difference does it make what day someone chooses to worship?

I think we all know that it was the RCC that changed the day from Saturday the Sabbath to Sunday, the Sol Invictus. If you want to get technical, people who worship on Sunday are worshiping on a day that was originally dedicated to another god.

Be careful with that double edged sword there, my friends. It cuts both ways.

How about we all worship God every day?
And...maybe we can learn to love one another enough not to let these tiny differences of opinion to cause this much controversy.

Frankly, I'd like to see this forum closed.
This debate is childish and basically seems to bring out the worst in people who are basically decent people...except when it comes to the Sabbath.

I totally suspect, in my deepest heart of hearts, that, if we could trace this complete denial of the Lord's Sabbath, we'd find $$Big Money$$ behind it.

"What? Close up on Saturday, when people are out and about with Friday's paycheck in their hot little hand? $$$$ No way, Sister. Listen, the Sabbath isn't a part of God's law anymore...and besides, we are "under grace" now...so don't be telling my workers that they are supposed to "rest on the Sabbath day". That would cost me $$$money$$$!!"

It's funny how no one minded the Sabbath back a few decades ago, when everyone thought the Sabbath was Sunday. Our Supreme Court actually held up the blue laws that forbade the sale of certain goods on Sunday, stating that it encouraged people to have a day of rest, which also filled a secular need...
But once the truth came out...that the Sabbath is really Saturday, and not Sunday...Katie-bar-the-door!! I swear, some of you seem to actually be foaming at the mouth!!

Everyone needs to just calm down. Live and let live. Worship when you feel it is right for you to worship.
I would encourage you to worship on every day that ends in "y".
That's what I do...and it works for me!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan

Don't be confused - the point of my post was not that you actually agree with the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship on the areas where I agree with them.

My point was that the thread title that you chose was on a subject that IS addressed by this majority of even pro-sunday scholarship when it comes to the Sabbath Commandment - and even they oppose your view on that one point (as with so many other points) -- yet your title fits the subject that they address.

in Christ,

Bob
​

We get it, you tend to quote whoever, whether they agree with your brand or not.

You ignored the quote details in the post pertaining to the OP - in your response, just as you are ignoring the OP and the subject of the thread.

You provide no argument at all that the quote was not 100 % accurate in the statement made about it.

But you did "complain" that anything not posted by me would be evidence in support of the OP.

How is that sort of logic supposed to work for the unbiased objective reader??

 

[Cribstyl]

You ignored the quote details in the post pertaining to the OP - in your response, just as you are ignoring the OP and the subject of the thread.

You provide no argument at all that the quote was not 100 % accurate in the statement made about it.

But you did "complain" that anything not posted by me would be evidence in support of the OP.

How is that sort of logic supposed to work for the unbiased objective reader??

BR, I'm I suppose to respond about your signature in every thread? You keep replaying the same twisted argument maybe because it sells books for you.
Clue: I'm here to be convinced of scriptures and your arguments are far from it. When you get it right I will say Amen.
What do I care what the pope or any man claim? Convince me about God's word and will be friends for life.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The illogical idea that keeping Sunday wrong is a good example for Christians regarding the Sabbath only shows desperation IMO. It is desperation or perhaps deceit when one who is hoodwinked into thinking that keeping Sunday is a good example yet then find out from the same folks that keeping Sunday is wrong to begin with and see those who "keep" Sunday lambasted by the same individuals for doing so. In other words it is just an attempt to lay stepping stones to keep the Sabbath on Saturday by first equating Sunday keepers agree with the Sabbath Command. The huge issue is none of these Sunday sources we see are advocating a true Saturday Sabbath here which means using them only confuses things it doesn't support any attempt to prove the Saturday Sabbath.

I contend that Christians who do things half wrong (half right too) are not an example for "doing right" on any account, but instead an example of doing wrong.

 

[Cribstyl]

The illogical idea that keeping Sunday wrong is a good example for Christians regarding the Sabbath only shows desperation IMO. It is desperation or perhaps deceit when one who is hoodwinked into thinking that keeping Sunday is a good example yet then find out from the same folks that keeping Sunday is wrong to begin with and see those who "keep" Sunday lambasted by the same individuals for doing so. In other words it is just an attempt to lay stepping stones to keep the Sabbath on Saturday by first equating Sunday keepers agree with the Sabbath Command. The huge issue is none of these Sunday sources we see are advocating a true Saturday Sabbath here which means using them only confuses things it doesn't support any attempt to prove the Saturday Sabbath.

I contend that Christians who do things half wrong (half right too) are not an example for "doing right" on any account, but instead an example of doing wrong.

Well said... I concur

 

[Angelquill]

I would say that anyone, on either side of this argument, who is nasty or abusive to another Christian who may not see things the same way he does, it doesn't matter if he or she keeps every single day of the week...they're still doing it "wrong".

Jesus Christ commanded us to love one another, and not just with a passing smile. We are to love one another with the same kind of love He demonstrated for us...patient, forgiving, giving love. We all get frustrated at times, but if your overall attitude is not one of love, and of compassion...well, nothing else you have to say really matters, does it? You want to inspect the fruit of others...yet your own orchard is not producing good fruit. You might want to tend to your own fruit first...get that log out of your eye, so you can see to help your brother with the splinter in his.
How is the world to know His disciples?
By what day they go to church? By how many scriptures they have memorized? By how "righteous" they are?
None of these.
It is by the love that they have for others.
Now, I don't care what you think about being "under the law"...if you are consistently breaking that precious law...well, I have to wonder if you even know what a Christian is...

 

[Angelquill]

People on both sides of this stupid argument are "doing it wrong".
I don't care how much you holler that you aren't "under the law," there is one law every Christian must obey, or he/she is not a Christian at all.
And that is this law:

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
What kind of love is Jesus talking about here? A passing smile won't get it. What is called for here is selfless love. Unconditional love. Sacrificial love. Forgiving love.
If you are one of those who is consistently nasty, making rude comments, goading and trying to get a "rise" out of your "opponent"...if you think of this debate as a "battle", and you point fingers and accuse other people of heaven knows what...well, your behavior isn't reflecting well on your Master, Who is Christ, now is it?
You might need to have a bit of surgery to remove that log from your eye, so that you can see better to help your brother to remove the splinter from his.

 

[listed]

The only law that is valid under the New Covenant, IMHO, would be the basics...that is, the Ten Commandments. These were all clarified in the New Testament.
And you are welcome.

No they are not.

 

[listed]

BR, I'm I suppose to respond about your signature in every thread? You keep replaying the same twisted argument maybe because it sells books for you.
Clue: I'm here to be convinced of scriptures and your arguments are far from it. When you get it right I will say Amen.
What do I care what the pope or any man claim? Convince me about God's word and will be friends for life.

We should c&p each time this comes up by him. He thinks if he hammers long enough we will submit to that lie. What he is doing is called spamming.

 

[listed]

People on both sides of this stupid argument are "doing it wrong".
I don't care how much you holler that you aren't "under the law," there is one law every Christian must obey, or he/she is not a Christian at all.
And that is this law:

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
What kind of love is Jesus talking about here? A passing smile won't get it. What is called for here is selfless love. Unconditional love. Sacrificial love. Forgiving love.
If you are one of those who is consistently nasty, making rude comments, goading and trying to get a "rise" out of your "opponent"...if you think of this debate as a "battle", and you point fingers and accuse other people of heaven knows what...well, your behavior isn't reflecting well on your Master, Who is Christ, now is it?
You might need to have a bit of surgery to remove that log from your eye, so that you can see better to help your brother to remove the splinter from his.

What is the correct way to go about this? Is to agree with false doctrine unsupportable by Scripture? If love is saying yes, doesn't that mean one side will always be hate? It has been pointed out the people who worship on Sunday do not care if others worship on Saturday. The people who worship on Saturday claim one is worshipping another god if they worship on Sunday. They actually claim one is worshipping satan. Which side is showing more love?

 

[Angelquill]

Frankly, I do not see any love on either side of this dang fool debate.
I see a lot of sarcasm, I see a lot of accusations, I see a lot of "bear traps"...and I a lot of "holier than thou" behavior.
Every now and then, I see outright lies intended to blind the other side to the real issue.
I see misquoted verses taken out of context...a lot of that...
And I see a lot of self righteousness.
I see two "camps"...each one patting each other on the back when a "score" is made. I'll bet folks are gathering "reps" by the ton in here, but they certainly are not earned reps.
What I see sickens me to my heart...which is why I'm trying so hard to reach both sides with Christ's true gospel...which is love.
I'm beginning to think it's a wasted effort...am I casting pearls before swine, here?
Please tell me that I am not!!!

Please, Heavenly Father, help us all here to get closer to YOU!
Help us all to stop trying to be "right" no matter what it takes,
and help us instead to honestly search for YOUR truth.
Amen.
​

 

[listed]

Frankly, I do not see any love on either side of this dang fool debate.
I see a lot of sarcasm, I see a lot of accusations, I see a lot of "bear traps"...and I a lot of "holier than thou" behavior.
Every now and then, I see outright lies intended to blind the other side to the real issue.
I see misquoted verses taken out of context...a lot of that...
And I see a lot of self righteousness.
I see two "camps"...each one patting each other on the back when a "score" is made. I'll bet folks are gathering "reps" by the ton in here, but they certainly are not earned reps.
What I see sickens me to my heart...which is why I'm trying so hard to reach both sides with Christ's true gospel...which is love.
I'm beginning to think it's a wasted effort...am I casting pearls before swine, here?
Please tell me that I am not!!!
Please, Heavenly Father, help us all here to get closer to YOU! Help us all to stop trying to be "right" no matter what it takes, and help us instead to honestly search for YOUR truth. Amen.

What you claim to be trying is futile. One can not straddle the fence on the issue. It is obvious that the opponents are not understood by you. I am not saying the opponents do not understand you. I am saying you do not understand the opponents.