Irrefutable evidence of 4th Commandment support by pro-Sunday sources

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan

So then

Is 56 - Sabbath for the Gentiles.

Is 66:23 Sabbath for all mankind.

Mark 2:27 Sabbath for mankind.

Heb 4 - Sabbath for the people of God.

Ex 20:11 Sabbath made holy --
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath made holy
​

What is great on this thread - is that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship listed in the OP get the Bible details listed above - with no problem at all.

Please excuse me. I have read this many times in post of yours. I have read your reference more times than that. I just do not see any command in Gen 2:1-3. I do not even see mankind mentioned there.
Would you be nice and show a command there, please?

In Genesis 2 mankind is mentioned - all of mankind -- Adam and Eve.

In Genesis 2 the seventh day is "sanctified" it is "made holy" it is set aside for observance.

In Ex 20:11 God says that the Gen 2:1-3 facts "alone" establish the day as binding on all mankind.

thus He applies it to "all mankind" in Is 66:23 and in Mark 2:27.

Not only that - but this is a Bible detail - so clear that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship "see" that Bible detail - -not just SDAs.

When both sides can see that Bible detail clearly -- well it just does not get any easier than that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[listed]

here we have your explanation as to why you do not provide a shred of evidence for your list of false accusations.

Instructive for the unbiased objective reader.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob you have seen the evidence posted by other to you several times and just throw it out. If I presented the evidence what makes you think I would expect you to suddenly believe it? Nothing that is what. So why waste time doing so?

 

[listed]

[/INDENT]
Well if you make that sort of false accusation and offer no evidence at all in favor of it -- then I suppose you could say that.



[/INDENT]
We are talking about supporting your false accusation with something like actual facts - mere "commentary' is what your list of false accusation - after false accusation can easily satisfy.

But to have validity you need to step beyond commentary that is filled with false accusation and move to something like an appeal to an observable fact.



[/INDENT]
Is 66:23 "All mankind" not "you".

Mark 2:27 "Sabbath was made for MANkind" not merely 'you'

Ex 20: "3 “You shall have no other gods before Me."

Now THERE - you have "YOU".

Did you want to camp out there to make a case?

Feel free.

in the mean time - you are stringing more false accusations into your post so I am not repeating the quote of you doing that sort of thing in this post more than is necessary.



I always try to simplify that for you by including at least one of your false accusations in each quote I reply to - where the subject of your false accusations is going to be addressed - at least for a sentence or two.

Usually to point out that you offer not a shred of fact to go with your accusations.



Here again you are simply defending your practice of offering not one shred of evidence for your false accusations.

We both agree to one thing - you are not providing evidence for the false accusations you make.

from ...to is the focus of the verse. The verse is not about mankind.Just continued out of context mistreatment of the Scripture.Who is the you in this verse?

Isaiah 66:23 says "All mankind" did you hope it said "you" instead??


But I provide a clear case for your focus on the word "you".

Ex 20: "3 “You shall have no other gods before Me."

Now THERE - you have "YOU".

Did you want to camp out there to make a case?


in Christ,

Bob[/QUOTE]Hammer away.

 

[listed]

Originally Posted by BobRyan

So then

Is 56 - Sabbath for the Gentiles.

Is 66:23 Sabbath for all mankind.

Mark 2:27 Sabbath for mankind.

Heb 4 - Sabbath for the people of God.

Ex 20:11 Sabbath made holy --
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath made holy
​

What is great on this thread - is that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship listed in the OP get the Bible details listed above - with no problem at all.



In Genesis 2 mankind is mentioned - all of mankind -- Adam and Eve.

In Genesis 2 the seventh day is "sanctified" it is "made holy" it is set aside for observance.

In Ex 20:11 God says that the Gen 2:1-3 facts "alone" establish the day as binding on all mankind.

thus He applies it to "all mankind" in Is 66:23 and in Mark 2:27.

Not only that - but this is a Bible detail - so clear that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship "see" that Bible detail - -not just SDAs.

When both sides can see that Bible detail clearly -- well it just does not get any easier than that.

in Christ,

Bob

Hammer away.

 

[BobRyan]

Isaiah 66:23 says "All mankind" did you hope it said "you" instead??


But I provide a clear case for your focus on the word "you".

Ex 20: "3 “You shall have no other gods before Me."

Now THERE - you have "YOU".

Did you want to camp out there to make a case?


in Christ,

Bob

Hammer away.

You are making this wayy tooo easy.

But I will take that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[listed]

You are making this wayy tooo easy.

But I will take that.

in Christ,

Bob

I will get worried if you actually hit the nail. First you must swing at it to hit it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I will get worried if you actually hit the nail. First you must swing at it to hit it.

Methinks they have the pointed end facing themselves

 

[listed]

Methinks they have the pointed end facing themselves

Good 1. Must be why they hollar so much.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Good 1. Must be why they hollar so much.

You'd think they would get the point after awhile here.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan

Originally Posted by BobRyan

So then

Is 56 - Sabbath for the Gentiles.

Is 66:23 Sabbath for all mankind.

Mark 2:27 Sabbath for mankind.

Heb 4 - Sabbath for the people of God.

Ex 20:11 Sabbath made holy --
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath made holy
​

What is great on this thread - is that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship listed in the OP get the Bible details listed above - with no problem at all.



In Genesis 2 mankind is mentioned - all of mankind -- Adam and Eve.

In Genesis 2 the seventh day is "sanctified" it is "made holy" it is set aside for observance.

In Ex 20:11 God says that the Gen 2:1-3 facts "alone" establish the day as binding on all mankind.

thus He applies it to "all mankind" in Is 66:23 and in Mark 2:27.

Not only that - but this is a Bible detail - so clear that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship "see" that Bible detail - -not just SDAs.

When both sides can see that Bible detail clearly -- well it just does not get any easier than that.

​

​

Hammer away.



Hammer away.

Thanks! --

You'd think they would get the point after awhile here.

Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Bob you have seen the evidence posted by other to you several times and just throw it out.

Sadly for the opposing views - they could find not one example of a flaw or error in the OP when it comes to the "inconvenient detail" that those here who are at odds with Christ's Sabbath commandment find themselves not only opposed to the Bible texts given, and the Sabbath keeping Christians posting here - but even against the majority of their OWN pro-sunday scholarship on all 7 of the points listed in the OP!!

It just does not get any easier than that my friends.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[listed]

Sadly for the opposing views - they could find not one example of a flaw or error in the OP when it comes to the "inconvenient detail" that those here who are at odds with Christ's Sabbath commandment find themselves not only opposed to the Bible texts given, and the Sabbath keeping Christians posting here - but even against the majority of their OWN pro-sunday scholarship on all 7 of the points listed in the OP!!

It just does not get any easier than that my friends.

in Christ,

Bob

Must not be reading much of the forum.

 

[BobRyan]

Imagining that there is a problem with the OP is not the same thing as actually showing a fact in support of that imagination.

Those who find their opinions at odds with the Bible, and Sabbath keeping Christian doctrines posted here - will also find that they are at war with all 7 points listed in the OP - 7 points affirmed by the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship.

Just does not get any easier than that!


in Christ,

Bob

 

[Sophrosyne]

The only war with the Sabbath going on is those who are illegally demanding it upon Christians here. These people are at war with the council of Jerusalem and Peter, Paul, and James.

 

[listed]

Imagining that there is a problem with the OP is not the same thing as actually showing a fact in support of that imagination.

Those who find their opinions at odds with the Bible, and Sabbath keeping Christian doctrines posted here - will also find that they are at war with all 7 points listed in the OP - 7 points affirmed by the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship.

Just does not get any easier than that!


in Christ,

Bob

Must not be reading much of the forum including responses quoting your posts.

 

[BobRyan]

There are dozens of posts saying something like "some place somewhere I posted some evidence that the OP made a mistake" ... and we have been around and around on this too long now to start pretending that we did not see all the false-accusation-rich but detail-poor example of that sort of thing in post after post.

Thus it can be said without any factual challenge --

Those who find their opinions at odds with the Bible, and Sabbath keeping Christian doctrines posted here - will also find that they are at war with all 7 points listed in the OP - 7 points affirmed by the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship.

Just does not get any easier than that!

 

[listed]

There are dozens of posts saying something like "some place somewhere I posted some evidence that the OP made a mistake" ... and we have been around and around on this too long now to start pretending that we did not see all the false-accusation-rich but detail-poor example of that sort of thing in post after post.

Thus it can be said without any factual challenge --

Those who find their opinions at odds with the Bible, and Sabbath keeping Christian doctrines posted here - will also find that they are at war with all 7 points listed in the OP - 7 points affirmed by the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship.

Just does not get any easier than that!

How cool. Are you now saying you are the Bible? Are you now saying the support you provide and quote from those found in your signature are the Bible? Ludicrous I say.

 

[BobRyan]

I am saying that the irrefutable evidence provided in the OP that your own arguments against the Bible texts speaking of the Sabbath "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 are even more opposed to the 7 points of the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship listed in the OP - than mine.

In fact I agree with your own pro-sunday scholars on the 7 points listed more than the apparently flawed argument you are using.

At this point - stating the obvious.

you have come up with several creative ways to try to get me to post this same irrefutable point that you cannot refute - as if it is helping your argument. Out of curiosity - why are you doing that on a point where you have no answer?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[listed]

I am saying that the irrefutable evidence provided in the OP that your own arguments against the Bible texts speaking of the Sabbath "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 are even more opposed to the 7 points of the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship listed in the OP - than mine.

In fact I agree with your own pro-sunday scholars on the 7 points listed more than the apparently flawed argument you are using.

At this point - stating the obvious.

you have come up with several creative ways to try to get me to post this same irrefutable point that you cannot refute - as if it is helping your argument. Out of curiosity - why are you doing that on a point where you have no answer?

in Christ,

Bob

I make absolutely no effort to get you to post anything. I fully understand you will never believe the Scripture. You probably do not actually quote them any more possibly because it can be shown that is not what they are saying in reality nor practice.

They are not my scholars, but thanks for trying to make them mine. I never initiated any quotes from them for proof of my theology.

 

[BobRyan]

I fully understand you will never believe the Scripture. You probably do not actually quote them any more possibly because it can be shown that is not what they are saying in reality nor practice.

.

the many texts opposing your argument so far - from the OP as well as the 7 points of the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship that you also oppose.

===========================

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================
In line with those 6 points we have ...

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments (see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16

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Since some have not looked up the referenced -- I added the info for them here -- #297 (Baptist Confession of Faith)

#13 (D.L. Moody)