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Neither is the mercy of GodBlueberry Sponge said:I'm not here to respond to people who want ten thousand proofs that two plus two equals four. The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. It's not that complicated.
This makes sense: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.water_ripple said:You make no sense.
Here's the word of God: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. You're no longer unknowing.water_ripple said:Aren't Christians called to spread the word of God to the unknowing?
The bible is meant to be read as a whole not just by picking one piece of scripture and ignoring the rest.Blueberry Sponge said:This makes sense: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
What about the mercy of God? What about the love of God? What about the sacrafice of Christ? What about all of the other scriptures? Do they exist? Do they have relevance or is one tiny piece of scripture referenced a religous dogmatic? What about suffer the little children unto me? Y would Christ say such a thing? Are His words to be ignored? Or does one piece of scripture make Christ's teaching irrelevant? WWJD? Condemm infants into everlasting fire b/c they could not ask for forgiveness? Is this the nature of Christ? Or would Christ show mercy to the little ones? Suffer the little children unto me...what if anything does this imply?Blueberry Sponge said:Here's the word of God: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. You're no longer unknowing.
Blueberry Sponge said:My statement all along has been that infants go to heaven when they die in infancy. Mercy, by definition, can only apply to the guilty. They go to heaven as forgiven sinners.
Sin is sin. Transgressing the law is transgressing the law, whether you know the law or not. To say otherwise is to argue for relatives and not absolutes. The Biblical doctrine of original sin says that all men are sinners by nature from birth. If we were not guilty from birth, the virgin birth would not have been necessary. We are not sinners because we sin...we sin because we are sinners.water_ripple said:The ability to sin is all about the choice to do so. One can walk in the light with Christ or they can choose to go astray. How do I know this? B/c in the past I have. All of that of course is in the past, and I have been forgiven. If a person makes the choice to follow Christ then they can choose also to stop. If infants are sinners then Y in the world would Christ say that unless one becomes like them that they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven? You make no sense. Infants cannot make a conscience choice of accepting Christ or rejecting him. They depend on the parent for survival. Do you see the paralelle here? They are innocent of the word and will of God and therefore unaccountable. Perhaps they would be accountable if God was not merciful. God expects us to grow in maturity of faith. That is Y we are called to repent and listen to His word. An infant whose life is cut short cannot grow in faith. It is impossible. God would not judge an infant who has died a flesh death for things they could not control. Infants control nothing in their life. The parent controls everything and God does not judge children for the sins of the parents.
And as soon as they grow teeth they start biting their big sisters. Ouch. Mean little critters! And they've been told not to repeatedly. They understand that smack on the back of the hand and that N-word. But they disobey, steal their playmate's blocks, cover-up the crime, blame it on the cat; the whole 9 yards. I don't think I'd want to be locked in a cage with a giant one year old.frumanchu said:Anyone who has had children know that they are anything but innocent. Only bias or ignorance would see it otherwise.
Well I blame everything on the French and I'm too young to speak.Plan 9 said:An infant is defined as a very young child; a baby. The term is from the French and its literal meaning is that of a child who is too young to speak, much less blame anything on the cat.
Does sin need to be observed in an outwardly expressed manner to be sin?Plan 9 said:An infant is defined as a very young child; a baby. The term is from the French and its literal meaning is that of a child who is too young to speak, much less blame anything on the cat.
In terms of sin nature, no, but I think the reason why this question troubles so many people is that infants are incapable of actively sinning, or even of the same kind of cognitive activity as adults.frumanchu said:Does sin need to be observed in an outwardly expressed manner to be sin?
Only if crying when hungry, unhappy and needing a diaper change constitutes disobedience to parents, but it doesn't; the opposite is true. Anyone caring for infants needs to hear the three types of baby cries to take adequate care of them.Blueberry Sponge said:Sin, though, is "missing the mark" of moral perfection. Babies aren't morally perfect and they act in accordance with that state. Sure, they aren't capable of the same level of cognitive activity as adults but they are capable of cognitive activity - after all, they do have brains and think. They premeditate their sins and carry them out on their own mental and physical level. Disobedience to parents is observable at a very early age. As Job said, man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble.
Are you afraid they might get the correct answer that they have been born in sin, that they sin from birth, and need to be saved?Plan 9 said:Please keep in mind that many unbelievers read these threads to maybe get some answers...
Blueberry Sponge said:Are you afraid they might get the correct answer that they have been born in sin, that they sin from birth, and need to be saved?
If they don't think of sin what the Bible teaches about sin, then what they think is irrelevant.Plan 9 said:In order for you to explain that concept to non-Christians, you would first need to understand how they think of sin
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