Don't you think that those who believe in Torah observance through Faith in Yeshua are stating that they are justified by God through observing Torah 'after' they have faith?
Don't they believe the profit of observing Torah commands given Moses is that they are doing the will of God as given through Yeshua? They are right and justified in God's sight because they are following Yeshua, who in their mind commanded them to observe the Torah. For them, does not salvation = Torah observance (and not the other way around). So the profit is acceptance/being counted righteous for doing God's will. They believe God's will is Torah observeance ala Yeshua. To love God is to observe his Torah commands, given Moses and Yeshua, which to them are one and the same.
So if Faith = Torah observance to them, does this not mean that the profit of Torah observance (circumcision) via Faith in Yeshua makes one to be found right and justified in God's sight? That it is the will of God for us to observe Torah because of our Faith in Yeshua, which produces eternal life. Meaning Faith in Messiah = Torah observance which leads to eternal life.
See, as much as they debate in consternation to the contrary, they in fact proclaim this very thing. That Faith in Yeshua = Torah observance which proves your faith by Torah deeds (works).
However, as I've been teaching for years, this is not what the bible teaches. It's not what the disciples taught, nor was it what Yeshua taught them. Nor was it what God told Yeshua to speak. NOR was it the foundation of Messianic Judaism.
Some verses that prove the point.
Galatians 5 said:
3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Because the only thing that counts is faith through love. Trying to justify your faith by observance to the Law alienates them from Messiah, and removes them from grace. I'd say that is profitless.
Romans 3 said:
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands.
For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.
21 But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight -- not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago.
22 We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.
If no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. It doesn't matter if it's before or after you place faith in Messiah for your propiation. The observances to the Law of Moses you do will 'never' make you right in God's sight. Not before or after you place faith in Messiah.
Romans3 said:
27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.
We can NOT boast about our observance to Torah commands, before or after confessing faith in Messiah, because observing Torah commands has NOTHING to do with being accepted by God. Our acquittal is not based on our 'good' deeds. It's based ONLY on our faith. We are NOT made right with God through obeying the law, ever.
31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.
Faith fulfills the law. THIS Is why a true follower of Messiah will emphasize the Faith he has in Messiah, and God. We don't forget about the law, we fulfill it through Faith.
THAT is biblical! And the Word of God.