Free Will is Taught in the Bible...

[Hawkins]

Freewill in the end means you have the ability to choose to oppose or reject God. That's why Law is needed to identify the righteous from the wicked who choose to offend God. Law is meaningless if freewill does not exist. God just needs to pick whoever without the existence of Law.

Law is thus an objective stardand to measure who choose to oppose God (sin against God = breaking Law). It is followed by the Final Judgment of Law. All humans will have to die as all of them have chosen to oppose God here and there without exception. It is thus said that no one is righteous, not even one.

Covenants are another standard used by God and Jesus for a subjective judgment. The Final Judgment of humans will be first subject to this subjective judgment. Under such a subjective judgment, when Jesus says that you are ok then you are ok. You are rejected when Jesus says no. When rejected you will go back to the judgment of Law which will certainly sentence you to death.

The limitation of Law is that it can only be used to judge one's past behavior. Jesus/God however can judge not only one's past and behavior, but also one's heart and possibly one's future behavior. The subjective judgment of Covenant is thus more thorough with full coverage.

To those who trust God, God's judgment is much better than the judgment of Law.

That said, Calvinism is not something new. It is an old argument amongst the Pharisees and Essenes and Sadducees. Essenes believe that predestination is absoute and freewill is just an illusion. This is the same as the argument of Calvinism. Saduccees think that freewill is absolute and predestination doesn't exist. While Pharisees are in between, they think that predestination somehow can harmonize with the existence of freewill.

 

[Dave L]

Freewill in the end means you have the ability to choose to oppose or reject God. That's why Law is needed to identify the righteous from the wicked who choose to offend God. Law is meaningless if freewill does not exist. God just needs to pick whoever without the existence of Law.

Law is thus an objective stardand to measure who choose to oppose God (sin against God = breaking Law). It is followed by the Final Judgment of Law. All humans will have to die as all of them have chosen to oppose God here and there without exception. It is thus said that no one is righteous, not even one.

Covenants are another standard used by God and Jesus for a subjective judgment. The Final Judgment of humans will be first subject to this subjective judgment. Under such a subjective judgment, when Jesus says that you are ok then you are ok. You are rejected when Jesus says no. When rejected you will go back to the judgment of Law which will certainly sentence you to death.

The limitation of Law is that it can only be used to judge one's past behavior. Jesus/God however can judge not only one's past and behavior, but also one's heart and possibly one's future behavior. The subjective judgment of Covenant is thus more thorough with full coverage.

To those who trust God, God's judgment is much better than the judgment of Law.

That said, Calvinism is not something new. It is an old argument amongst the Pharisees and Essenes and Sadducees. Essenes believe that predestination is absoute and freewill is just an illusion. This is the same as the argument of Calvinism. Saduccees think that freewill is absolute and predestination doesn't exist. While Pharisees are in between, they think that predestination somehow can harmonize with the existence of freewill.

Free will works with Law. Grace is not law. You corrupt the gospel, making it Law so you can claim free will.

 

[Mark Quayle]

You are using scripture addressed to one audience to prove your point about another. If you have free will, prove it by choosing to live a sinless life.

Well said. I laughed out loud. Really.

 

[BobRyan]

"He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done - WHY THEN when I expected good fruit did it produce bad?"

2 Cor 5 "WE BEG YOU on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God"

Matt 23 "How often I WANTED to spare your children... but YOU would not"

Rev 3 "I STAND at the door and KNOCK, if anyone hears my voice AND OPENS the door I will come in"

You are using scripture addressed to one audience to prove your point about another. If you have free will, prove it by choosing to live a sinless life.

1. The "audience" there is the entire Christian world in all of time from Isiah to 2 Cor 5 to Rev 3

2. We already proved that "free will" does not mean "unlimited power". (if you free will zap yourself into heaven, if you have free will be immune to disease...)

3. John said "These things I write to that you sin not.." 1 John 2:1 - and who then said to John "prove it by claiming to live a sinless life"?? Is the Bible still the Word of God even if John committed one single sin or never claimed to be sinless? Many of us say "yes, the Bible is the Word of God" - but you have free will you can choose as you wish.

 

[BobRyan]

Free will works with Law. Grace is not law. You corrupt the gospel, making it Law so you can claim free will.

New Covenant - "writes the Law of God on heart and mind" Jer 31:31-34. The New Covenant IS the Gospel Covenant.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the commandments have "honor your father and mother as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

 

[BobRyan]

In the words of Calvinist apologist Cornelius Van Til, "Sin did not take away from man any of the natural powers that God had given him."
The Defense of the Faith

This would include our natural ability to choose between accepting or rejecting God's free offer of salvation in the Gospel.

If we were created in the image and likeness of God, that includes free will if God is a free being.

God supernaturally enables the choice of all mankind with His "drawing of all mankind" John 12:32 -- even Calvinists when reading John 6 - freely admit that the supernatural drawing of mankind by God - fully enables the choice to accept the gospel - that depravity disabled.

 

[RDKirk]

That's not what free will means. Free will doesn't mean that we can do whatever we wish - I'd like to be able to fly but the fact that I can't doesn't mean that I don't have free will.

Do you feel that you are in a relationship with God? If you do, how is that possible without free will? Can even God have a loving relationship with a robot? Free will is good. It's why you would rather live in the US than in North Korea. Enjoy!

Except according to scripture, the natural will of every human being is to shun God. Nobody--of their own "free will"--seeks God according to scripture. We are all naturally God's enemy, according to scripture.

Free will does nothing but condemn us to Hell.

I'm not sure why Christians struggle so hard to keep it.

 

[BobRyan]

Except according to scripture, the natural will of every human being is to shun God. Nobody--of their own "free will"--seeks God according to scripture.

So how nice that God
1. Supernaturally "draws ALL mankind to Himself" John 12:32 - and not "just the FEW" of Matt 7.
2. Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16. Not just the Matt 7 - FEW
3. Is "not WILLING that ANY should perish but that ALL come to repentance" 2 Peter 3 - not just FEW

So the fact that only FEW are saved - means mankind has free will.

 

[Dave L]

New Covenant - "writes the Law of God on heart and mind" Jer 31:31-34. The New Covenant IS the Gospel Covenant.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the commandments have "honor your father and mother as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

You are SDA. What else can you say? If you understood the New Covenant replacing the Old, you would not be saying this.

 

[Dave L]

1. The "audience" there is the entire Christian world in all of time from Isiah to 2 Cor 5 to Rev 3

2. We already proved that "free will" does not mean "unlimited power". (if you free will zap yourself into heaven, if you have free will be immune to disease...)

3. John said "These things I write to that you sin not.." 1 John 2:1 - and who then said to John "prove it by claiming to live a sinless life"?? Is the Bible still the Word of God even if John committed one single sin or never claimed to be sinless? Many of us say "yes, the Bible is the Word of God" - but you have free will you can choose as you wish.

Blind people cannot choose anything they cannot see. God blinded the Pharisees so they could not believe. How do they have free will?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Think about how this would read if everything was already determined. If that's true, every temptation is already decided, either it will produce sin in you or not and you can not do anything about that.
The verse says the opposite.

Faulty reasoning. (The verse only says, "13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it." It does not say whether or not the temptation is already decided.) What makes you think you cannot do anything about it, if God predetermined everything? God uses means to accomplish precisely what he planned. What you decide FULFILLS what God predetermined. We look at everything backwards.

Yes there's billions of little causes running around the planet. We decide our course of action. Just because we aren't the first cause doesn't mean our choices don't actually change the course of the universe. This is why our world looks so chaotic. All these little causes choices bouncing off each other. Plus the choices of fallen angels and faithful angels and God's choices. The question that I can't answer is how God brings order even in the chaos of his children's lives. He works good in spite of the mess.

Of course there's billions of little causes running about the planet. But not billions of first causes. We are not independent little parentheticals in the order of causation, nor independent side links in the chain, causing but not being caused.

Far from saying that our choices cause nothing, I have for years said that I believe in freewill, in that I believe our choices are REAL and that they have REAL effects, even affecting our eternity. In no way do I deny choice. God brings order in what we consider chaos, because he predetermined and controls every bit of it.

The term "first cause" implies use of means, or it would mean "only cause" which is what those who deny Calvinism would like to make it mean, and use it to mean in their attempts to defeat the notion of predestination.

 

[Hmm]

Except according to scripture, the natural will of every human being is to shun God. Nobody--of their own "free will"--seeks God according to scripture. We are all naturally God's enemy, according to scripture.

Free will does nothing but condemn us to Hell.

I'm not sure why Christians struggle so hard to keep it.

Except that's not according to scripture. It's according to you

 

[TedT]

Please consider:
The ability to choose does not prove that we have a free will since we're not always aware of the effects of our sinfulness nor our ordinary human nature upon our desires and choices.

Christ called it enslavement, I use the word addiction to avoid the senseless and useless arguments about the meaning of enslavement based solely upon physical slavery.

The enslaving addiction to sin infiltrates and coerces every choice a sinner makes until he is reborn, his free will restored.

YES we need to have a free will to fulfill GOD's purpose in our creation but our dna, our family and cultural values we learned from our parents and our experiences of other people all coerce our choices to follow our human foibles - here is no freedom here.

Satan proves his free will by his rebellion.
Humans prove their lack of free will by their inability to choose to be righteous without harsh training, Heb 12:5-11.

 

[renniks]

What makes you think you cannot do anything about it, if God predetermined everything? God uses means to accomplish precisely what he planned. What you decide FULFILLS what God predetermined. We look at everything backwards

Which means whatever I did wasn't me doing it at all. I was just along for the ride.

 

[renniks]

Far from saying that our choices cause nothing, I have for years said that I believe in freewill, in that I believe our choices are REAL and that they have REAL effects, even affecting our eternity. In no way do I deny choice. God brings order in what we consider chaos, because

Compatabalism does not compute. It's silly to pretend you believe in free will when you believe everything is God's will.

 

[BobRyan]

Blind people cannot choose anything they cannot see.

Good thing "having unlimited power to fix things" is not part of the definition for "free will"

 

[BobRyan]

Please consider:
The ability to choose does not prove that we have a free will since we're not always aware of the effects of our sinfulness

Having infinite knowledge about the consequence for any given choice - is not part of the definition for "free will"

So while it is true as Romans 6 points out - you are the slave of the one you obey - and the sinful nature is part of all of us - yet God supernaturally enables choice -- with His sovereign choice to supernaturally "draw all mankind to Himself" John 12:32 and that drawing enables the choice to accept the Gospel.

 

[Mark Quayle]

1. The "audience" there is the entire Christian world in all of time from Isiah to 2 Cor 5 to Rev 3

2. We already proved that "free will" does not mean "unlimited power". (if you free will zap yourself into heaven, if you have free will be immune to disease...)

3. John said "These things I write to that you sin not.." 1 John 2:1 - and who then said to John "prove it by claiming to live a sinless life"?? Is the Bible still the Word of God even if John committed one single sin or never claimed to be sinless? Many of us say "yes, the Bible is the Word of God" - but you have free will you can choose as you wish.

1. You know this how?

2. You may have asserted it, but not proved it. If free means in any way 'uncaused', it means unlimited in that way. To claim, for example, "a small amount of autonomy", the word, 'autonomy', still means uncaused. And there is only one uncaused —God himself. Logically, also, autonomy requires other cause instead of from the God from whom the one claiming autonomy has declared independence in whatever way he is autonomous: This other cause must then be mere chance, or the better person vs worse person, which is by the declaration of independence from God, therefore dependent on chance, or perhaps on some other explanation on down a line of reasoning that must always arrive at causation by God or by Chance. Causation by chance is logically self-contradictory.

3. John didn't say, "Prove freewill by living a sinless life", because there is no such thing as freewill. You do have will if you choose as you wish. Free? no. You always choose as you wish, even if it is only what you wish for that instant in which you choose. It is impossible to choose otherwise.

 

[BobRyan]

Free will works with Law. Grace is not law. You corrupt the gospel, making it Law so you can claim free will.

New Covenant - "writes the Law of God on heart and mind" Jer 31:31-34. The New Covenant IS the Gospel Covenant.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the commandments have "honor your father and mother as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

You are SDA. What else can you say?

If you were 4 or 5 point Calvinist it would be logically consistent for you to say that I am following God's sovereign will when I expose the flaws Calvinism and point to the Bible statements that affirm the free will God has sovereignly chosen for mankind.

For example - of your own free will - you ignored every text above that does not favor Calvinism. That is fine... you have free will... you can choose as you wish.

 

[BobRyan]

Both positive and negative examples showing free will

"He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done - WHY THEN when I expected good fruit did it produce bad?"

2 Cor 5 "WE BEG YOU on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God"

Matt 23 "How often I WANTED to spare your children... but YOU would not"

Rev 3 "I STAND at the door and KNOCK, if anyone hears my voice AND OPENS the door I will come in"

You are using scripture addressed to one audience to prove your point about another. If you have free will, prove it by choosing to live a sinless life.

1. The "audience" there is the entire Christian world in all of time from Isiah to 2 Cor 5 to Rev 3

2. We already proved that "free will" does not mean "unlimited power". (if you free will zap yourself into heaven, if you have free will be immune to disease...)

3. John said "These things I write to that you sin not.." 1 John 2:1 - and who then said to John "prove it by claiming to live a sinless life"?? Is the Bible still the Word of God even if John committed one single sin or never claimed to be sinless? Many of us say "yes, the Bible is the Word of God" - but you have free will you can choose as you wish.

1. You know this how?

1. I "read" the texts...
2. I notice who the author is
3. I notice who their readers are and see that they are in both OT and NT.

"He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done - WHY THEN when I expected good fruit did it produce bad?"

2 Cor 5 "WE BEG YOU on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God"

Matt 23 "How often I WANTED to spare your children... but YOU would not"

Rev 3 "I STAND at the door and KNOCK, if anyone hears my voice AND OPENS the door I will come in"

2. You may have asserted it, but not proved it.

The texts themselves show it.

This is the easy part -- it is not rocket science.