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if you observe Circumc*sion, Christ will profit you nothing.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by LittleLambofJesus, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Well?

    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
    Strong's Number H4139 matches the Hebrew מוּלָה (muwlah), which occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the Hebrew concordance

    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
    Strong's Number G4061 matches the Greek περιτομή (peritomē), which occurs 36 times in 32 verses in the Greek concordance
     
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  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    n p


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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2013
  3. Tiredknight

    Tiredknight Guest

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    well then I am screwed because I am circumcised... But not under my will.

    Circumcision now a days is totally different then when it was in bible days.

    I also feel there is the skipped part where paul is arguing that the gentiles are circumcised of the heart because of all the gentiles accepting Christ.
     
  4. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    IMO there is nothing wrong with being physically circumcised, after all, the LORD instructed Abraham and his children to be circumcised as a sign of the covenant between the LORD and Abraham (Genesis 17:10-14) [though that passage is essentially talking about spiritual circumcision]. However, the Scriptures are clear, physical circumcision is not essential to the LORD and will not benefit anyone; what matters is the circumcision of our hearts.

    Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19
     
  5. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    Yeah Paul was circumcised (after the manner of the flesh) also but taught circumcision (after the flesh) or uncircumcision (after the flesh) is nothing

    These were teaching you cant be saved except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses

    Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

    One was with hands the other was without hands (of the heart) and in the spirit and not to be judged after the flesh (but of those who put no confidence in the flesh) were the circumcision in truth (and in heart) by the Spirit.
     
  6. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    There is covenant and noncovenat circumcision.
     
  7. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    Don't you think that those who believe in Torah observance through Faith in Yeshua are stating that they are justified by God through observing Torah 'after' they have faith?

    Don't they believe the profit of observing Torah commands given Moses is that they are doing the will of God as given through Yeshua? They are right and justified in God's sight because they are following Yeshua, who in their mind commanded them to observe the Torah. For them, does not salvation = Torah observance (and not the other way around). So the profit is acceptance/being counted righteous for doing God's will. They believe God's will is Torah observeance ala Yeshua. To love God is to observe his Torah commands, given Moses and Yeshua, which to them are one and the same.

    So if Faith = Torah observance to them, does this not mean that the profit of Torah observance (circumcision) via Faith in Yeshua makes one to be found right and justified in God's sight? That it is the will of God for us to observe Torah because of our Faith in Yeshua, which produces eternal life. Meaning Faith in Messiah = Torah observance which leads to eternal life.

    See, as much as they debate in consternation to the contrary, they in fact proclaim this very thing. That Faith in Yeshua = Torah observance which proves your faith by Torah deeds (works).

    However, as I've been teaching for years, this is not what the bible teaches. It's not what the disciples taught, nor was it what Yeshua taught them. Nor was it what God told Yeshua to speak. NOR was it the foundation of Messianic Judaism.

    Some verses that prove the point.
    Because the only thing that counts is faith through love. Trying to justify your faith by observance to the Law alienates them from Messiah, and removes them from grace. I'd say that is profitless.

    If no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. It doesn't matter if it's before or after you place faith in Messiah for your propiation. The observances to the Law of Moses you do will 'never' make you right in God's sight. Not before or after you place faith in Messiah.

    We can NOT boast about our observance to Torah commands, before or after confessing faith in Messiah, because observing Torah commands has NOTHING to do with being accepted by God. Our acquittal is not based on our 'good' deeds. It's based ONLY on our faith. We are NOT made right with God through obeying the law, ever.

    Faith fulfills the law. THIS Is why a true follower of Messiah will emphasize the Faith he has in Messiah, and God. We don't forget about the law, we fulfill it through Faith.

    THAT is biblical! And the Word of God.
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    if you observe Circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing
    Excellent!


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  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Good post and thanks

    I have nothing against those who want to be circumcised for religious, medical, cosmetic or any other reasons.

    From what I gather, even Islam is divided on that since Ishmael was circumcised, from whom, supposedly, the religion of Islam arose from. [But it was to Abraham's "only" son Isaac the promise was made].
    http://www.christianforums.com/t7234468/#post46986299
    Question for Muslims on Circumcision

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  10. seeking Christ

    seeking Christ Guest

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    It is the circumcision of the heart, that God ALWAYS had in mind. He has been very patient in bringing us to a point of knowledge, and a responsible Covenant with Him.

    I sure am glad we can do away with the old ways, rather than being bound to them!
     
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  11. pgp_protector

    pgp_protector Noted strange person

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    What if one "observes" Circumcision due to their parents actions?
     
  12. Koakku

    Koakku Servant

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    I believe it doesn't matter if you get circumcised or not. The problem is the circumcision of the heart or the issue with the practice of sin. If you happen to focus on circumcision then i doubt that Christ will become totally pointless to you just because you're blind to the fact that you do not need it.
     
  13. psalms 91

    psalms 91 Legend

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    I agree it is the heart that needs circumsized, the physical is just a representation of what the spiritual should be. Only when we allow God to cut away the hardness of our hearts will we truly be able to accept and understand Gods love fully
     
  14. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    well i believe it's a personal choice, and not necessarily based on religious expectations. Jesus was circumcized, but i don't believe He requires it of others, now.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Me too! :thumbsup:





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  16. pgp_protector

    pgp_protector Noted strange person

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    What, you mean I shouldn't still be stoning my disobedient rebellious child after taking them to the city gate & talking to the old guy that's sitting there?
     
  17. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    If one gets snipped to gain the approval of God they are amiss...

    Paul
     
  18. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Great words. :thumbsup:
     
  19. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    there is no room for progeressive circumcision in the text, we were..did we rise? yes, we were snipped, see it as done bro, thanks, frog.

    Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
     
  20. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    sisters were not...:blush: (joke) good to see ya brinster!
     
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