if you observe Circumc*sion, Christ will profit you nothing.

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Well?

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H4139 matches the Hebrew מוּלָה (muwlah), which occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the Hebrew concordance

Exd 4:26
So he let him alone. It was then that she said, "A bridegroom of blood," because of the circumcision.
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G4061 matches the Greek περιτομή (peritomē), which occurs 36 times in 32 verses in the Greek concordance
John 7:22
Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.
 
T

Tiredknight

Guest
Well?

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H4139 matches the Hebrew מוּלָה (muwlah), which occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the Hebrew concordance

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G4061 matches the Greek περιτομή (peritomē), which occurs 36 times in 32 verses in the Greek concordance
well then I am screwed because I am circumcised... But not under my will.

Circumcision now a days is totally different then when it was in bible days.

I also feel there is the skipped part where paul is arguing that the gentiles are circumcised of the heart because of all the gentiles accepting Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Lion King

Veni, vidi, vici
Mar 29, 2011
7,360
578
Heavenly Jerusalem- Mount Zion
✟10,388.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
IMO there is nothing wrong with being physically circumcised, after all, the LORD instructed Abraham and his children to be circumcised as a sign of the covenant between the LORD and Abraham (Genesis 17:10-14) [though that passage is essentially talking about spiritual circumcision]. However, the Scriptures are clear, physical circumcision is not essential to the LORD and will not benefit anyone; what matters is the circumcision of our hearts.

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ebedmelech
Upvote 0

Fireinfolding

Well-Known Member
Dec 17, 2006
27,263
4,084
The South
✟114,061.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
IMO there is nothing wrong with being physically circumcised, after all, the LORD instructed Abraham and his children to be circumcised as a sign of the covenant between the LORD and Abraham (Genesis 17:10-14) [though that passage is essentially talking about spiritual circumcision]. However, the Scriptures are clear, physical circumcision is not essential to the LORD and will not benefit anyone; what matters is the circumcision of our hearts.

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

Yeah Paul was circumcised (after the manner of the flesh) also but taught circumcision (after the flesh) or uncircumcision (after the flesh) is nothing

These were teaching you cant be saved except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

One was with hands the other was without hands (of the heart) and in the spirit and not to be judged after the flesh (but of those who put no confidence in the flesh) were the circumcision in truth (and in heart) by the Spirit.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ebedmelech
Upvote 0

CherubRam

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
6,777
781
✟103,730.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Shimshon

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2004
4,355
887
Zion
✟107,464.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Don't you think that those who believe in Torah observance through Faith in Yeshua are stating that they are justified by God through observing Torah 'after' they have faith?

Don't they believe the profit of observing Torah commands given Moses is that they are doing the will of God as given through Yeshua? They are right and justified in God's sight because they are following Yeshua, who in their mind commanded them to observe the Torah. For them, does not salvation = Torah observance (and not the other way around). So the profit is acceptance/being counted righteous for doing God's will. They believe God's will is Torah observeance ala Yeshua. To love God is to observe his Torah commands, given Moses and Yeshua, which to them are one and the same.

So if Faith = Torah observance to them, does this not mean that the profit of Torah observance (circumcision) via Faith in Yeshua makes one to be found right and justified in God's sight? That it is the will of God for us to observe Torah because of our Faith in Yeshua, which produces eternal life. Meaning Faith in Messiah = Torah observance which leads to eternal life.

See, as much as they debate in consternation to the contrary, they in fact proclaim this very thing. That Faith in Yeshua = Torah observance which proves your faith by Torah deeds (works).

However, as I've been teaching for years, this is not what the bible teaches. It's not what the disciples taught, nor was it what Yeshua taught them. Nor was it what God told Yeshua to speak. NOR was it the foundation of Messianic Judaism.

Some verses that prove the point.
Galatians 5 said:
3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Because the only thing that counts is faith through love. Trying to justify your faith by observance to the Law alienates them from Messiah, and removes them from grace. I'd say that is profitless.

Romans 3 said:
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands.

For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.

21 But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight -- not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago.

22 We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.
If no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. It doesn't matter if it's before or after you place faith in Messiah for your propiation. The observances to the Law of Moses you do will 'never' make you right in God's sight. Not before or after you place faith in Messiah.

Romans3 said:
27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.
We can NOT boast about our observance to Torah commands, before or after confessing faith in Messiah, because observing Torah commands has NOTHING to do with being accepted by God. Our acquittal is not based on our 'good' deeds. It's based ONLY on our faith. We are NOT made right with God through obeying the law, ever.

31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.
Faith fulfills the law. THIS Is why a true follower of Messiah will emphasize the Faith he has in Messiah, and God. We don't forget about the law, we fulfill it through Faith.

THAT is biblical! And the Word of God.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
if you observe Circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing
Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Well?
well then I am screwed because I am circumcised... But not under my will.

Circumcision now a days is totally different then when it was in bible days.

I also feel there is the skipped part where paul is arguing that the gentiles are circumcised of the heart because of all the gentiles accepting Christ.
Excellent!


.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
IMO there is nothing wrong with being physically circumcised, after all, the LORD instructed Abraham and his children to be circumcised as a sign of the covenant between the LORD and Abraham (Genesis 17:10-14) [though that passage is essentially talking about spiritual circumcision].

However, the Scriptures are clear, physical circumcision is not essential to the LORD and will not benefit anyone; what matters is the circumcision of our hearts.
1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Good post and thanks

I have nothing against those who want to be circumcised for religious, medical, cosmetic or any other reasons.

From what I gather, even Islam is divided on that since Ishmael was circumcised, from whom, supposedly, the religion of Islam arose from. [But it was to Abraham's "only" son Isaac the promise was made].
Gen 17:25
And Ishmael his son [was] thirteen years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7234468/#post46986299
Question for Muslims on Circumcision

Originally Posted by ibn_leroy
Circumcision is obligatory. Off the top of my head, I can't recall any verse of the Qur'an that explicitly commands it. However, the Qur'an is not the only source of Islamic law.
Salam steve..I am not sure if circumcision is mentioned in Kuran,I haven't found it but all most all muslims circumcise their boys as a tradition/Sunnah of the Prophet.That was the tradition of the earlier prophets also as you know..And if a male convert wants to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet of the religion which he enters, surely he does this.

But I don't know if this is farz/obligatory again.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Koakku

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 4, 2012
4,347
1,158
Pennsylvania
✟61,538.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I believe it doesn't matter if you get circumcised or not. The problem is the circumcision of the heart or the issue with the practice of sin. If you happen to focus on circumcision then i doubt that Christ will become totally pointless to you just because you're blind to the fact that you do not need it.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
It is the circumcision of the heart, that God ALWAYS had in mind. He has been very patient in bringing us to a point of knowledge, and a responsible Covenant with Him.

I sure am glad we can do away with the old ways, rather than being bound to them!
Me too! :thumbsup:





.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

pgp_protector

Noted strange person
Dec 17, 2003
51,661
17,590
55
Earth For Now
Visit site
✟390,187.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It is the circumcision of the heart, that God ALWAYS had in mind. He has been very patient in bringing us to a point of knowledge, and a responsible Covenant with Him.

I sure am glad we can do away with the old ways, rather than being bound to them!

What, you mean I shouldn't still be stoning my disobedient rebellious child after taking them to the city gate & talking to the old guy that's sitting there?
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,390
✟162,912.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
I believe it doesn't matter if you get circumcised or not. The problem is the circumcision of the heart or the issue with the practice of sin. If you happen to focus on circumcision then i doubt that Christ will become totally pointless to you just because you're blind to the fact that you do not need it.

Great words. :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,066
✟74,307.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
I agree it is the heart that needs circumsized, the physical is just a representation of what the spiritual should be. Only when we allow God to cut away the hardness of our hearts will we truly be able to accept and understand Gods love fully

there is no room for progeressive circumcision in the text, we were..did we rise? yes, we were snipped, see it as done bro, thanks, frog.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,066
✟74,307.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
well i believe it's a personal choice, and not necessarily based on religious expectations. Jesus was circumcized, but i don't believe He requires it of others, now.

sisters were not...:blush: (joke) good to see ya brinster!
 
Upvote 0