If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Bob S]

THIS IS TRUE: ===============================

THIS \/ doesn't change THAT ^^ .

I agree Jeff, morality never changes. What has changed is the fact that instead of being bound to the 10 commands from the OC, Christians are bound to Jesus new command to love others as He loves us. The law of love is not bound to 9 commands, The law of love expands to all adjectives concerning how we live and treat our fellow man, all that ever existed. The fact is there is no command in the 10 to love at all. All those commands could have been kept out of duty or fear. Also, the fact is that the fourth command has nothing to do with morality (how we treat others) it is strictly a command to observe a day. The system was not complete and was temporary until Jesus came Gal 3:19 and gave us the greatest command to love others as he loves us. That is a much greater command than to love others as we love ourselves. Jesus loves us so much that He was willing to lay down His life so that we will live eternally. If you want to know if what I write is truth read this:

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, (the 10 commandments) came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory (temporary) though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory (temporary) came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 2Cor3:7-11

The Holy Spirit is the ministry that brings righteousness. Christians were given the Comforter as a gift from Jesus. Why do some still want to use the old cold inert stones stones as their guide when we have the living God in us willing to guide us into righteousness. I contend it is because the 10 have the ritual Sabbath command they believe is still binding on not just defunct Israel but all mankind. The Holy Spirit is not prompting anyone to observe a day given only to Israel.

The Holy Spirit led me to Christ, the SDAs, after two years of study, finally convinced me to observe Sabbath. Had I known the difference between the old and new covenants I would have never fallen for the Israelite only Sabbath. Thank the great Lord He didn't abandon me there. Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus had kept the commandments of Moses as He wants us to keep His commandments.

Here's What Jesus commanded.

John 15:17 This is my command: Love each other.

Matthew 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Matthew 5:39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Matthew 18:35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Jonah 4:2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.

Mark 2:7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”


I believe that none of us accept for God alone, can do all of these commands.

Only Christ lived a sinless life.

But it would still be wrong for Christians to take God's name in vain.

Notice how Jesus "gets down to the smallest details" when it comes to those trying to edit/downsize/side-step" even one sliver of His Ten Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

Notice that "Moses said", "Word of God", "Commandment of God" ... are all in one category -- while "your tradition' and "your own tradition" and "tradition of men" are in another category --- according to Christ.

Jesus had called for them
Enoch, Moses, Samuel, Elijah and Elisha were taken the world, but they still did not entered His Rest.

we have only 'you' to quote on that. But we do have "the actual Bible"

1. Samuel is never said to have been taken to heaven - in the actual Bible.
2. Moses and Elijah are both "with Christ" in glorified form in Matt 17.

. His rest is when the kingdom of God merges with the earth

We do have "you" to quote for that idea.

But in the actual Bible Hebrews 4 says "SOME did not enter" and "it remains for some to enter" --

5 and again in this passage, “They shall not enter My rest.” 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

You are spinning that around to "NO OT saint entered his rest because the kingdom of heaven had not yet merged with earth"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Only Christ lived a sinless life.

WHO did Christ TELL "You MUST BE PERFECT ?"
WHO did Christ SHOW HOW TO BE PERFECT ?
WHO throughout the NT was called holy, blameless (i.e. 'perfect') ?
WHY did anyone BOTHER to be blameless, holy, perfect, IN UNION WITH Y'HSUA EVERY DAY (in the NT and later years)
when all it got them was persecution, tribulation, beatings, arrests, and executed ?

 

[BobRyan]

Only Christ lived a sinless life

WHO did Christ TELL "You MUST BE PERFECT ?"
WHO did Christ SHOW HOW TO BE PERFECT ?
WHO throughout the NT was called holy, blameless (i.e. 'perfect') ?
WHY did anyone BOTHER to be blameless, holy, perfect, IN UNION WITH Y'HSUA EVERY DAY (in the NT and later years)
when all it got them was persecution, tribulation, beatings, arrests, and executed ?

Christ is the only human that did not need a Savior... that did not need salvation.

"ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" Rom 3:23 the "Whole world.. every mouth shut.. all held accountable before God" Rom 3:19-21.

This is not saying that "All must continued to sin" for in 1 John 2:1 we have "these things I write unto that you sin not".

But all have sinned.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So because Christ was sinless,
should we disobey Him ?
You didn't answer any of the questions !

Only Christ lived a sinless life... Christ is the only human that did not need a Savior... that did not need salvation. "ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" Rom 3:23 the "Whole world.. every mouth shut.. all held accountable before God" Rom 3:19-21.
This is not saying that "All must continued to sin" for in 1 John 2:1 we have "these things I write unto that you sin not". But all have sinned.

 

[BobRyan]

So because Christ was sinless,
should we disobey Him ?
You didn't answer any of the questions !

I thought I answered them - 1 John 2:1 says that we should not sin - sin is transgression of the law in 1 John 3:4.
There is no command for the saints to sin.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

WHO did Christ TELL "You MUST BE PERFECT ?"

WHO did Christ SHOW HOW TO BE PERFECT ?

WHO throughout the NT was called holy, blameless (i.e. 'perfect') ?

WHY did anyone BOTHER to be blameless, holy, perfect, IN UNION WITH Y'HSUA EVERY DAY (in the NT and later years)
when all it got them* was persecution, tribulation, beatings, arrests, and executed ?

*all it got them on earth, outwardly observing. Perhaps what they obtained (a great(er) resurrection!? ) AFTER this life is MORE THAN WORTH IT ! ?

 

[BobRyan]

WHO did Christ TELL "You MUST BE PERFECT ?"

WHO did Christ SHOW HOW TO BE PERFECT ?

WHO throughout the NT was called holy, blameless (i.e. 'perfect') ?

WHY did anyone BOTHER to be blameless, holy, perfect, IN UNION WITH Y'HSUA EVERY DAY (in the NT and later years)
when all it got them* was persecution, tribulation, beatings, arrests, and executed ?

*all it got them on earth, outwardly observing. Perhaps what they obtained (a great(er) resurrection!? ) AFTER this life is MORE THAN WORTH IT ! ?

Is it your argument that a great many sinless people have lived and died without ever committing a single sin - and so needed no savior at all - for they never had sin debt??

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Did I ask that ?

Is it your argument that a great many sinless people have lived and died without ever committing a single sin - and so needed no savior at all - for they never had sin debt??

 

[BobRyan]

Did I ask that ?

It is difficult at this point to figure out what point you are trying to make.

Quite frankly - I don't know what it is.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You also did not answer the questions.
If you had, you would know.

Obedience to YHWH is required by Y'SHUA.
He told His disciples a lot that was required of them.
He showed them how to live, how to accomplish this.
He shows everyone this, how to accomplish this, who follows Him, immersed in His Name.
The questions are directly from Scripture.
Easy to answer.

It is difficult at this point to figure out what point you are trying to make.

Quite frankly - I don't know what it is.

 

[BobRyan]

You also did not answer the questions.
If you had, you would know.

Obedience to YHWH is required by Y'SHUA.
He told His disciples a lot that was required of them.
He showed them how to live, how to accomplish this.
He shows everyone this, how to accomplish this, who follows Him, immersed in His Name.
The questions are directly from Scripture.
Easy to answer.

Which is the same thing as John's 1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not" -

I don't see where you find the contradiction

I still have no idea what your point is.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

WHO did Christ TELL "You MUST BE PERFECT ?"

WHO did Christ SHOW HOW TO BE PERFECT ?

WHO throughout the NT was called holy, blameless (i.e. 'perfect') ?

WHY did anyone BOTHER to be blameless, holy, perfect, IN UNION WITH Y'HSUA EVERY DAY (in the NT and later years)
when all it got them* was persecution, tribulation, beatings, arrests, and executed ?

*all it got them on earth, outwardly observing. Perhaps what they obtained (a great(er) resurrection!? ) AFTER this life is MORE THAN WORTH IT ! ?
==================================

WHO SAID there is any contradiction ?

I don't see where you find the contradiction

=====================================
I thought it would be simple and obvious to you. (I honestly did think so).
The answers to the questions are not contradictory to any of YHWH'S WORD at all.
The answers are just simply not known by most people.

I still have no idea what your point is.

 

[BobRyan]

I think we all know that Christ spoke to his followers and in Matt 28 he told his followers to tell others what He had told them.

Nothing mysterious there.

So back to my question - why does this idea of all being sinners, all being born with a sinful nature... all needing salvation, all needing to accept the Gospel -- cause this kind of reaction in your posts?

What is your point? Do you think some folks don't need Christ as their savior - that they never sinned so they don't need the Gospel?

What is your point?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There is no reaction in my posts.

I was actually verifying through other Scriptures what you have been posting about for a long , long time (and unexpectedly testing your veracity, which I did not even think of nor expect at all until your repeated strange refusal to answer the questions which if you answered support your Scriptural ideas ! THAT WAS THE POINT! Scripture supports Scripture ! )...

Don't you even understand these particular Scriptures yourself , that you cannot answer the questions ? There is no trick, no subterfuge, no agenda at all.

Simply the TRUTH from SCRIPTURE.

I think we all know that Christ spoke to his followers and in Matt 28 he told his followers to tell others what He had told them.

Nothing mysterious there.

So back to my question - why does this idea of all being sinners, all being born with a sinful nature... all needing salvation, all needing to accept the Gospel -- cause this kind of reaction in your posts?

What is your point? Do you think some folks don't need Christ as their savior - that they never sinned so they don't need the Gospel?

What is your point?

 

[masmpg]

Hello Bob S.

Now that is the voice of one crying in the wilderness. This term 'ceremonial law', is one of the truly great errors that arose in historical Christianity. The law of Moses contained civil, moral, Levitical priesthood laws, and sacrificial laws. Truly a national legal system given to the nation of Israel. I am baffled by this terminology they use.

Jesus fulfilled the entire Old Testament, including the prophets, Psalms, e.t.c. Even the prophets contain many decrees given by God to the Jews, decrees against drunkenness and gluttony for example. All the decrees of God are commandments for the Jews.

Catholic theology emphasizes the ten commandments, so the Reformed and SDA churches, seem to follow this same formula.
Ignore the context, hold to the ten decrees, and you have eternal life, or so they say.

Well according to you we do not even need a bible. Jesus "fulfilled" the entire NT. Just what does the word "fulfill" mean?

You said "Now that is the voice of one crying in the wilderness. This term 'ceremonial law', is one of the truly great errors that arose in historical Christianity. The law of Moses contained civil, moral, Levitical priesthood laws, and sacrificial laws. Truly a national legal system given to the nation of Israel. I am baffled by this terminology they use." Show me what was in "the book of the law that Moses" wrote, and we read about in Deuteronomy 31. AND Paul mentions in Galatians:3:10: "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." You really should study what Jesus actually "fulfilled" before you try to make people look bad with your opinions. What Moses wrote in a book, known as "the book of the law" was given by God on Sinai. It contained the blessings and curses, which Paul refers to in Colossians 2:14-17 when he wrote about "handwriting of ORDINANCES" that was AGAINST US. The TEN commandments have never been against us. In fact they are "holy just and good" according to Paul.

 

[BABerean2]

The TEN commandments have never been against us. In fact they are "holy just and good" according to Paul.

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　
2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　
2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　

The Ten Commandments are against all of us, since they reveal the death sentence required under the Old Covenant to those who cannot keep them. They are God's standard of perfection only kept by one man, who is Christ.


Heb 12:18　 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")　

We have not come to the Mountain of Sin.

Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.　

Instead, we are come to Mount Zion.

They are not the same mountain...

.

 

[masmpg]

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　
2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　
2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　

Instead, we are come to Mount Zion.

They are not the same mountain....

I have always said that the TEN commandments only accomplish one thing and that is point out sin. They do nothing but. They do not keep us from sinning, they do not give us any favor toward God. To say that just because I have asked for forgiveness once I can sin my way to heaven, but my sins are not really sins because somehow they are magically non existent, I don't have to confess when I sin??? Jesus righteousness will only cover sins that we have confessed. We must continue to ask. Jesus said "ask and ye shall receive" are we to ask once? He does not say how often, but I will ask always like Paul said "I die daily" That dying is asking Jesus for victory throughout the day.

God gave Moses the ceremonial law, which he wrote in a book on Sinai also.

Where is mount Zion? Please give me a verse to show where physical mount Zion is.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Masmpg.

We have a problem Masmpg, we are reading a different text from one another, even though it's the same quotation. You mentioned (Colossians 2:14) in your reply. I read the Colossians text and I am wondering why Masmpg has a problem with understanding the text. Now I will illustrate why we understand the scripture differently from one another. Please read below, the same verse in two different translations.

Colossians 2 (K J V)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Colossians 2 (NASB)
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

These two Bible verses above are from the same quotation, but from different Bibles.

Your seeing the ordinances as being blotted out. I'm seeing the decrees ( the commandments) being blotted out.

Such a powerful difference in interpretation, due simply to the choice of translation.

So the question is Masmpg, who is using the correct translation?

 

[BABerean2]

God gave Moses the ceremonial law, which he wrote in a book on Sinai also.

Where is mount Zion? Please give me a verse to show where physical mount Zion is.

Heb_12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

.