Bob I have always wondered why you refuse to pay attention to our details mentioned with quotes. It really seems you want us to pay attention only to your material while ignoring ours.Until you read Colossians 2 where we find that the shadows are the annual feast Sabbaths.
Paying close attention to "the details" in Colossians 2 instead of skimming over them - is a great idea.
=========================
for those not inclined to ignore every detail in Colossians 2 - we have
In this following post it is pointed out that in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.
Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.
But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".
Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)
Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch! 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)
In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.
We are not at war with the Sabbath issued to and required of the Israeli. That simply is not the covenant the Christian is obligated to.Sadly for the arguments at war with God's Bible Sabbath - it is to be kept for all eternity in the New earth Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" -
and 1 John 5:2-4 refutes/debunks the man-made-tradition that declares the Word and Law of God to be "burdensome" -- "Bondage". James 2 calls it the "Law of Liberty".
It really looks like to me a denial of the trinity. I think he is trying to prove God the Father does not speak.What is your evidence Jesus spoke in Ex 20?The speculation is yours. Because you push the law over Jesus there is plenty justifiable doubt about your faith in Jesus. Post the words of the music used in your church last Sabbath.What? Jesus is God. Jesus clearly identified commandments as His and not His Father's. Do you have some text of John 15:10 showing otherwise?Yes Jesus saw God the Father issuing commands.Personally I don't think you understand the above verses. Go ahead and say that is me quoting me if you like. I see no correlation between those texts and the subject being discussed by you.Either way both verses say "my" and make no reference to the law.Nothing to do with your discussion.Yes and one should notice you're being very specific with which commandments.When you start walking on water let us know. Oh never mind it would probably be in the news. When you start healing people by telling them to hold out there hand or get and walk please let us know. Oh and you're most likely married and Jesus was single and celibate. In-other-words you can't walk like Jesus walked in any way. Your intention is to infer the Christian is to keep the law. John never says anywhere to keep the law.This is an unprovable unexamined assumption on your part having no evidence in the Bible.What? you just posted a better covenant. It can't be the same covenant issued at Sinai you claim is written on the heart. Then you say new covenant with highlighted emphasis. Yes you didn't pay any attention to the words preceding your highlight "Not like." Why? then you ignorethe w ord "For" in verse 33.You preform eisegesis, not exegesis. You're not asking me, but the answer is no.Thanks for giving us an out. Your real issue isn't opposition to the commandments as a whole, just one notably the 4th. You don't keep it. What is the big deal about the commandments? The commandment is your accuser.Nowhere, that's where.You historically throw out any such response.Why did Paul do this?Did so and you'll still most likely say "you quoted you."What did I post above was your real intention?Big deal Only as it was spoken to Israel. The context doesn't include anyone else
I clicked on your link and could not find the post you mention on that page.you are being disingenuous, because i've already proven this to you.
so don't act like you don't know!
Who Was Moses Talking To??
i provided facts that CANNOT be disputed and you know it!
Yeppers I agree. It is indeed sad.Some people will never find out the thoughts of YHWH.
Some people will find out TODAY on earth .
Some people don't want to know. (most of the world doesn't want to know; they don't care and they reject HIM).
This is recorded to read in Ephesians, Romans, and Revelation.
Yes and that is very reasonable in light of Jn 15:10.seems like everyone these days wants to ask "Which Commandments" --
Please explain Jn 15:10.What is sad to me is that many will say the TEN commandments are "nailed to the cross" or some kind of excuse to justify their desire to sin, or say we will never stop sinning.
The TEN commandments were given for one purpose. They were never meant to "save" anybody. God wrote the TEN commandments on stone with His finger to show the immutability of them, and to show how much He loves us. Paul said that the commandments are holy just and good.
Jesus said "if you love Me, keep My commandments." He did not say "If you love Me, love Me" which many say is what He meant when He said this. If we love God with all our heart mind soul and body it would be impossible to break one of the first four commandments. If we love our neighbor as ourselves it would be impossible to break one of the last six. This is the basis for agape love, and that is what the TEN commandments are, a sign of God's love for man.
What translation or manuscript are you using?What many fail to understand that the ceremonial laws were also given to Moses at Sinai. And to stand firm in rebellion against God's holy just and good TEN commandments and using Paul's letters to justify your stance is not a firm foundation. We need the whole bible to understand salvation, not just Paul's letters to heathens and pagans who needed extreme explanations for how to come to Jesus. Paul writes mostly about is justification. Justification is just the beginning of our Christian walk of sanctification. Many will only go as far as justification in their Christian experience, and fail to read and understand what Paul writes in Colossians:2:6: "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:" This is the walk of sanctification he also mentions in 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." Believe it or not this "glory to glory" is a finished, past tense principle every Christian needs to have the faith to believe that we are sanctified every step "from glory to glory" of our Christian walk toward Jesus.
One of the main reasons people are leaving off this most important aspect of the Christian experience is because the new "modern" translations are deleting sanctification along with the divinity of Christ. Romans 8 1 is the most important verse about sanctification but the modern translations deleted the second half of that verse, leaving out out "walk as Christ walked".
BobRyan said: ↑
seems like everyone these days wants to ask "Which Commandments" --
Yes and that is very reasonable in light of Jn 15:10.
bugkiller
I wish I could really believe your post.I believe that God, the creator of the universe has enough power to protect His holy word, and I believe that holy word is the KJV bible. All the "modern" translations which came from the erroneous westcott and hort manuscripts are satanic counterfeits. I do not believe anyone has to learn hebrew or greek for the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths we need for our walk with Him. In fact many who profess to know hebrew and greek know just enough to get them into trouble. I will stick with my faith in God's holy word as long as it is complete, and the "modern" translations are not complete.
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.
What is your evidence Jesus spoke in Ex 20?
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant
Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
It really looks like to me a denial of the trinity. I think he is trying to prove God the Father does not speak.
bugkiller
BABerean2 said: ↑
And even though Colossians 2:16-17 clearly states that the Sabbath day was a shadow of Christ, we are told we are taking the verses out of context.
Until you read Colossians 2 where we find that the shadows are the annual feast Sabbaths.
Paying close attention to "the details" in Colossians 2 instead of skimming over them - is a great idea.
=========================
for those not inclined to ignore every detail in Colossians 2 - we have
In this following post it is pointed out that in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.
Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.
But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".
Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)
Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch! 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)
In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.
Nothing but a detraction form the quoted post.
Yes you say cut out, but never once have you explained why the man left sad.Even Christ gets asked that question..
Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?
How nice then for Christians - that Christ also ANSWERs the question (in that part of the post you cut out from your quote of it) .
So then we don't need to "make stuff up" to answer it.
Matt 19
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
============================= And of course the other NT authors tell us that Jesus was right in Matt 19
Please explain how your above references prove Jesus gave the 10 Cs to Moses. While you are at it please explain with scripture to whom those commandments were given.The TEN commandments are included in "THE LAW" the Moral Law of God that defines sin.
Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:
Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10
This quoted with the intended purpose of condemnation to coerce the ignorant to forsake grace for the law.Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.
Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
I have no idea why you would condemn yourself.James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
I wonder if this passage could be read 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should keep the Sabbath, do you keep it?It based on "He who said" -
Rom 2
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
I doubt he does and I know I sure do not. We have been over this before in detail. You continue to refuse to consider key phrases in the text that simply will not support your idea. Exegesis does not demand the 10 Cs you refer to as the moral law to be written on the heart.In the same post you are quoting - in the Bible text you ignored. Here I put it in for you to read again --
You can not support this statement.Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.
false accusation much?
I wish I could really believe your post.
bugkiller
BobRyan said: ↑
seems like everyone these days wants to ask "Which Commandments" --
Yes and that is very reasonable in light of Jn 15:10.
bugkiller
Yes you say cut out, but never once have you explained why the man left sad.
Yes you say cut out, but never once have you explained why the man left sad.
You also seem to refuse to acknowledge passages such as Ps 14:3, Isa 63:17, Rom 3:19-30, chapter 4 on where righteousness comes from. We are justified by faith and the blood of Jesus Rom 5:1-9.
You can not support this statement.
bugkiller
Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.