If God is, and always has been, omniscient, and it is all of Him and none of us that...?

[Neogaia777]

I think we need to look at how God interacts with ALL of mankind.

God of course interacts more with His Children because WE have chosen Him. We have chosen Him as Lord and Savior. So to me, the Holy Spirit of course convicts us of sin and intercedes for us.

We've chosen, God loves us more because "we" ect, ect (chose Him, ect, ect)...? You really believe that about God...? Cause I don't... I think he has a different point of view on those who just have to hang onto and cling to that kind of thing...

I know He has chosen me now, but I know it is not at all due to me, even though I am doing increasingly better things or am, some would say choosing to be sanctified, I know it is not because of my choosing, but God predisposed me to all those choices that I would make within me that would lead me to a/the conclusion of and with absolute certainty that he had chosen me from before I was born and pre-programmed me to be where I am now, the way I am right now, and where I was, and everything leading up to today and beyond that, every choice, ect...

I've seen clear evidence of God's hands all over it the entire time, and knowing all of all of everything about all of it the entire time...

But let’s for a moment look at the unbeliever, the unsaved person. How does what you wrote show how God interacts with them?

They are temporary constructs designed or created with only a temporary purpose, for a temporary period of time involving the rest of us here who will be or become eternal (by His choosing) somehow, or will have or will come to have eternal life in Heaven with Him, after here and after this and the rest of "them" in this life... Other than that, I don't even know if they are really ever even ever really considered truly alive or truly conscious beings or not...?

God Bless!

 

[DamianWarS]

If God is, and always has been, fully omniscient, and it is all of Him and none of us that saves us, no works or self-effort or self-will or whatever... doesn't that also mean that He created it all (us) to be the way it (or they, us) is or are, or is going, ect...? And what path they or it or us all takes and is taking...?

Anyway, if God is and always has been 100% fully omniscient, doesn't He choose who goes where, Heaven or Hell, ect, that we don't send ourselves there (no real choice) or what, if God is and always has been 100% fully omniscient...? Doesn't that (100% full omniscience) negate any real "choice"...? Or not...?

That we could all be part of some kind of "program" maybe...? Or have been and are programmed...? And are running it...? What we are, and what we were, and what we will become, every detail of it all, is all fully known to Him...?

Does that negate free will, or self will (for us)...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

have you tried asking God?

 

[Neogaia777]

have you tried asking God?

Actually I am and have been conferring with Him about this for awhile now, it's not an easy subject and it is very deep, so it is taking some time...

 

[Lazarus Short]

There is something to that although I am not quite sure what. In Genesis when God stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac. God said, NOW I know that you fear God, because.... Like he didn't know before?

Didn't He know all along? Yes, He must have, so it is His way of communicating with us, at least it seems so to me.

 

[Neogaia777]

Have any of you even stopped to consider that your own efforts at your so-called holy living and holy ways (so-called I say for a reason) and that reason is because: have you ever stopped to consider that it (those ways) (works, self-effort, free will, choice) your choosing and deciding and doing and not God, is actually, not only rebellion to or against God, but actually is very self-defeating as far as the "real important sin issues" goes, and that all your own efforts at so-called holy living and holy ways, are not breeding much more kinds of evil and much more worse kinds of sins, than if you...? Well, "simply just truly lived" so to speak, instead of trying to control and abuse and manipulate it all or everything (situations, circumstances, or whatever)...

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

We've chosen, God loves us more because "we" ect, ect (chose Him, ect, ect)...? You really believe that about God...? Cause I don't... I think he has a different point of view on those who just have to hang onto and cling to that kind of thing...

I know He has chosen me now, but I know it is not at all due to me, even though I am doing increasingly better things or am, some would say choosing to be sanctified, I know it is not because of my choosing, but God predisposed me to all those choices that I would make within me that would lead me to a/the conclusion of and with absolute certainty that he had chosen me from before I was born and pre-programmed me to be where I am now, the way I am right now, and where I was, and everything leading up to today and beyond that, every choice, ect...

I’m sorry but I Am confused.

Can you restate this again.

 

[Neogaia777]

Didn't He know all along? Yes, He must have, so it is His way of communicating with us, at least it seems so to me.

So what would he be trying to communicate say to Abraham by that, if He knew how it was all gonna go and play out what Abraham would do, what He (God) would do and did, ect, but making Abraham, and Abraham knowing that God made Abraham to do the way he did, to be at least willing to sacrifice his Son, ect, God knowing that if he wouldn't have stopped Abraham, Abraham would have done it, ect, why did he take Abraham through all of it/that and what was Abraham supposed to gain, or glean, or learn maybe about Himself, and God as well from it...

Just what was God trying to communicate to Abraham with all of this that He took Him through with Him, and why could he (Abraham) not have learned it any other way, and what did he learn and why was it necessary...?

And what was the point of it all in light of God full omniscience in the matter or matters...?

These are the kinds of questions we need to be asking ourselves and talking about with God...

God Bless!

 

[Kaon]

If God is, and always has been, fully omniscient, and it is all of Him and none of us that saves us, no works or self-effort or self-will or whatever... doesn't that also mean that He created it all (us) to be the way it (or they, us) is or are, or is going, ect...? And what path they or it or us all takes and is taking...?

Anyway, if God is and always has been 100% fully omniscient, doesn't He choose who goes where, Heaven or Hell, ect, that we don't send ourselves there (no real choice) or what, if God is and always has been 100% fully omniscient...? Doesn't that (100% full omniscience) negate any real "choice"...? Or not...?

That we could all be part of some kind of "program" maybe...? Or have been and are programmed...? And are running it...? What we are, and what we were, and what we will become, every detail of it all, is all fully known to Him...?

Does that negate free will, or self will (for us)...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Omniscience doesn't infringe on free will at all. But, we do not have free will.


The problem lies in understanding of time, as a human, or even as a human physicist. Time is a pseudodimension that does not flow linearly outside of 4 or 5 dimensions. Yet, uniqueness still exists - in thought and action.

Omniscience also means the ability to choose how much information one knows without losing any generality. All decisions still come down to us, and one of the reasons we have the luxury of time is to see why we will end up where we already are.

 

[Neogaia777]

I’m sorry but I Am confused.

Can you restate this again.

God chose me and it doesn't make sense... Cause it is due to nothing at all because of me, who I am, or becoming (a much better person) I cannot take any credit for any of it at all, I am saved because he selected and chose me to be saved, and I don't know why, why me and not some them, ect, and then, in light of God's full omniscience ect...

In fact, In light of God's full omniscience, a lot of things don't make sense, but I know God or the highest God is and always was 100% all knowing completely and fully about every single thing even the very smallest detail and/or choice, from the beginning, ect...

I have to view in light of that now....

I'm no better than anyone else...? It just doesn't make sense, but I know God is all-knowing, and completely all knowing from the beginning, ect...

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Omniscience doesn't infringe on free will at all. But, we do not have free will.


The problem lies in understanding of time, as a human, or even as a human physicist. Time is a pseudodimension that does not flow linearly outside of 4 or 5 dimensions. Yet, uniqueness still exists - in thought and action.

Omniscience also means the ability to choose how much information one knows without losing any generality. All decisions still come down to us, and one of the reasons we have the luxury of time is to see why we will end up where we already are.

Huh?

It seems like you are contradicting yourself

 

[Kaon]

Huh?

It seems like you are contradicting yourself

Omniscience doesn't infringe on free will, but we don't have free will.

The worry doesn't even apply to us because we are not the masters of our own universes. We do not have free will as fallen, carnal creatures. We only have the limited ability to respond to tbe stimuli in which we are presented (e.g. naked woman: to lust or not to lust... and then further?)


Where did you see a contradiction?

 

[Neogaia777]

Omniscience doesn't infringe on free will at all. But, we do not have free will.


The problem lies in understanding of time, as a human, or even as a human physicist. Time is a pseudodimension that does not flow linearly outside of 4 or 5 dimensions. Yet, uniqueness still exists - in thought and action.

Omniscience also means the ability to choose how much information one knows without losing any generality. All decisions still come down to us, and one of the reasons we have the luxury of time is to see why we will end up where we already are.

Why we end up where we already are, or where we were when were made or created, ect, or however you want to put it, is...?

The answer to the "why" will (must always) be "God" and not "us"... and making the mistake of thinking that is in any way otherwise, is a big mistake, huge mistake, if you ask me...

It will always lead to flawed and imperfect logic when trying to answer that question of "why", which in turn leads to more and worse kinds of sin, deception, and evil, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Omniscience doesn't infringe on free will, but we don't have free will.

The worry doesn't even apply to us because we are not the masters of our own universes. We do not have free will as fallen, carnal creatures. We only have the limited ability to respond to tbe stimuli in which we are presented (e.g. naked woman: to lust or not to lust... and then further?)


Where did you see a contradiction?

Even our responses to the stimuli are not our own, is what I'm trying to say, not at all due to us, so why does one or some do better or choose better than some others...? Or in a way that God finds more or less favorable than others...? Without there seeming to be a lot of rhyme or reason to it, the answer lies in that it is only "God" and all because of God, and not at all "us" at all really...

God Bless!

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Actually I am and have been conferring with Him about this for awhile now, it's not an easy subject and it is very deep, so it is taking some time...

Indeed the subject is very deep and complex. May I suggest meditation on Ecclesiastes and use different translations. I don't have the answers you seek, none of us have them. But as I look at the language you use it sounds familiar. The IF in your questions makes me wonder if you are aware of your identity in Christ.Can you accept that there are some mysteries in Christ that you will never understand in your carnal mind?

Ecc.3:10 I have seen the God-given task with which the sons of men are to be occupied. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

No one includes you and those of us on this forum. But it is good to seek answers. Seek and you shall find is the promise.

 

[Lazarus Short]

So what would he be trying to communicate say to Abraham by that, if He knew how it was all gonna go and play out what Abraham would do, what He (God) would do and did, ect, but making Abraham, and Abraham knowing that God made Abraham to do the way he did, to be at least willing to sacrifice his Son, ect, God knowing that if he wouldn't have stopped Abraham, Abraham would have done it, ect, why did he take Abraham through all of it/that and what was Abraham supposed to gain, or glean, or learn maybe about Himself, and God as well from it...

Just what was God trying to communicate to Abraham with all of this that He took Him through with Him, and why could he (Abraham) not have learned it any other way, and what did he learn and why was it necessary...?

And what was the point of it all in light of God full omniscience in the matter or matters...?

These are the kinds of questions we need to be asking ourselves and talking about with God...

God Bless!

I believe it was for our benefit, as an example we could relate to.

 

[Neogaia777]

I believe it was for our benefit, as an example we could relate to.

I think it is much more specific than that, in that it was for personally communicating something very personally and specific or specifically "to Abraham"... And our experiences are much the same (way), but/and because we also each need to glean from our own unique experiences what is specific and unique to us, and try to find out what specifically through our own experiences is God trying to show or communicate to us personally that can only be specifically communicated through experience or experiences alone...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Indeed the subject is very deep and complex. May I suggest meditation on Ecclesiastes and use different translations. I don't have the answers you seek, none of us have them. But as I look at the language you use it sounds familiar. The IF in your questions makes me wonder if you are aware of your identity in Christ.Can you accept that there are some mysteries in Christ that you will never understand in your carnal mind?

Many...

I know I am chosen by God for a unique and special purpose for Him, but that's about all I know I right now... I know I am his, saved, going to heaven, all of that, but that's where much of it stops right now...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm not better than anyone else, not more holy than another, so why choose someone like me...? Is there anything, anything at all, that sets me apart from the others or makes me any more or less special than anyone else...?

And if there were or was "anything" or whatever, How should I carry myself and/or behave/act/choose/think (myself to be or whatever) after that fact was, or after that fact might have been realized... And, maybe it's not meant to be realized, but I would really like to know...?

God Bless!

 

[eleos1954]

Gods foreknowledge - He knows what choices will be made. Each of us has free will to make our choices.

That is a contradiction... How can He know if He doesn't know...? Or how can he not know if he knows...? Or there is the possibility of Him not knowing something or anything (in the "future" I guess you could say, or whatever)...? Because then he couldn't be fully and 100% totally and completely sovereign, omniscient, or whatever...?

God Bless!

"That is a contradiction... How can He know if He doesn't know...?"

I didn't say He doesn't know ... you are the one questioning what God knows.

He knows what choices will be made ... He does not actively make the choices for us ... and no it is not contradictory.

Ok ... so tell me ... what are all the things God doesn't know.

 

[Kaon]

Why we end up where we already are, or where we were when were made or created, ect, or however you want to put it, is...?

The answer to the "why" will (must always) be "God" and not "us"... and making the mistake of thinking that is in any way otherwise, is a big re, huge mistake, if you ask me...

It will always lead to flawed and imperfect logic when trying to answer that question of "why", which in turn leads to more and worse kinds of sin, deception, and evil, ect...

God Bless!

I agree that a skewed and ephemeral logical odyssey on the subject can create detriment for certain persons. However, the Most High God through the Word of God Himself has no intention of keeping anything from us in our due season.

The book of life - a literal anthology of lives - is being written on this realm we call earth, bounded by linearity in time and thought - for our benefit. This is so we do not experience everything at one time, and so that we fully understand why we are with the Father, or elsewhere already.

Remember the Most High God Himself had enmity between persons, and those persons seemed to already have their fate sealed. That is because our thinking is painfully linear, and myopic as persons; we have no conception of the heavens above, our place in the aeons, and the magnitude of the curse we are under. The latter part is really what keeps us spiritual invalids.