If God is, and always has been, omniscient, and it is all of Him and none of us that...?

[Neogaia777]

Do you want to know God or not...?

It's an understanding that can only come by and experience or by going through experiences with suffering, sorrow, anguish, misery, pain, ect...

It cannot be shown in the usual ways, but only through experience or the experiencing of it only alone, can you or will you come to know (God) ect, (or everything that can be known, gained, and learned by and through this experience here) (which is a lot, A LOT of "things") (that we learn here) (much of what we will take with us and what we will be or become in heaven is "determined here", and the understanding (of that) (and more) is "here" and in and through and by experiencing and living out this life here...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Do you want to know God or not...?

It's an understanding that can only come by and experience or by going through experiences with suffering, sorrow, anguish, misery, pain, ect...

It cannot be shown in the usual ways, but only through experience or the experiencing of it only alone, can you or will you come to know (God) ect, (or everything that can be known, gained, and learned by and through this experience here) (which is a lot, A LOT of "things") (that we learn here) (much of what we will take with us and what we will be or become in heaven is "determined here", and the understanding (of that) (and more) is "here" and in and through and by experiencing and living out this life here...

God Bless!

The understanding is "here"... and if we do not glean it here, while we are here, what will we be or what will there be for us in the next life, if we don't know God... that/this understanding could have a huge impact upon your life, not only here, but on your eternal destination or dwelling place as well...

But it has to begin with God is 100% fully omniscient and always was, ect, predestined it all, knew about it all, "all of it" down every little smallest detail, everywhere along the way, ect, always will know and does know all in the future, ect, knew that all long ago, (in the past) ect...

God Bless!

 

[eleos1954]

If God is, and always has been, fully omniscient, and it is all of Him and none of us that saves us, no works or self-effort or self-will or whatever... doesn't that also mean that He created it all (us) to be the way it (or they, us) is or are, or is going, ect...? And what path they or it or us all takes and is taking...?

Anyway, if God is and always has been 100% fully omniscient, doesn't He choose who goes where, Heaven or Hell, ect, that we don't send ourselves there (no real choice) or what, if God is and always has been 100% fully omniscient...? Doesn't that (100% full omniscience) negate any real "choice"...? Or not...?

That we could all be part of some kind of "program" maybe...? Or have been and are programmed...? And are running it...? What we are, and what we were, and what we will become, every detail of it all, is all fully known to Him...?

Does that negate free will, or self will (for us)...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Gods foreknowledge - He knows what choices will be made. Each of us has free will to make our choices.

 

[section9+1]

The understanding can only be known (by going through) the grief... It cannot be taught of shown any other way... And, it is only meaningless to those who insist on their own will and their own control, in ways of seeing things, ect...

To those not stuck on that, there is still very much great meaning to be found, and found out in it, or to it all, still, but only by still having to go and along with still having to go through it right now still...

God Bless!

In a way, I agree almost with some of this. But if understanding cannot be taught any other way, why is that? Is it because God has decreed it thus, or because he is limited in his methods and has no other option to choose from? I think you'd say because he has decreed it. Which means he could have decreed another way. Now I am not second guessing God's methods, but meaning is not found in a predetermined existence. If God has a set course for my life that is unchangeable, then my life is pointless. I am like a bullet shot from a gun at a fixed target. Where else can I go? I very much require my destiny to be independent of God's aimed bullet. Only then will it be worthwhile to get where I am supposed to go. And only then will my faith be worthy of any honor.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

What is sin?

as well as most odd theologies of the Xian church, is to instill fear

Sin is any thought, word, action or inaction by the individual which transgresses and adulterates one's relationship to his or her Creator thus separating him or her from the ability to receive God's love.
"Sin"- from the latin "sin", meaning "without"
Spanish continues to use it as such
example: Trabajando sin reposa or, in English, "working without rest"
In the Holy bible what does it mean? anything thought, spoken, done, or left undone which is without faithfulness(loyal obedience) to the Will of God and/or the relationship between any of His creatures and Himself.

"as well as most odd theologies of the Xian church, is to instill fear"
A judgment and assumption of your own.
Fear, very biblical, from the Greek "Phobos"
Definition: fear, dread, terror

1. that which strikes terror

Used this many times in the New Testament:
Matthew 3
Luke 6
John 3
Acts 5
Romans 4
1 Corinthians 1
2 Corinthians 5
Ephesians 2
Philippians 1
1 Timothy 1
Hebrews 1
1 Peter 5
1 John 1
Jude 1
Revelation 3

Fear is "the beginning of wisdom" in:
Job 28:28
Proverbs 9:10
Proverbs 1:7
Psalm 111:10
Obedience in fear is commanded in
Ecclesiastes 12:13

If one does not fear the Almighty, disobeying Him, being cut off from his Love, escaping His wrath. what number and manner of sins might such a foolish/careless person blindly or willingly walk in to? How would anyone escape being the foolish person building his or her house on the sand? How would anyone hate sin and its effects without fear?

 

[Neogaia777]

In a way, I agree almost with some of this. But if understanding cannot be taught any other way, why is that? Is it because God has decreed it thus, or because he is limited in his methods and has no other option to choose from? I think you'd say because he has decreed it. Which means he could have decreed another way. Now I am not second guessing God's methods, but meaning is not found in a predetermined existence. If God has a set course for my life that is unchangeable, then my life is pointless. I am like a bullet shot from a gun at a fixed target. Where else can I go? I very much require my destiny to be independent of God's aimed bullet. Only then will it be worthwhile to get where I am supposed to go. And only then will my faith be worthy of any honor.

Because it's like the red pill and the blue pill, if we don't share in His experiences then there is no other way to truly understand Him or know Him or have a "sharing" with Him...

Were here to figure out why we were chosen by God, when none of it was really our choosing...?

And consequently, (and where many get hung up), why others were not chosen and you were, when none of it was really either one of your's choosings that had anything to do with it, but God's choice(s) and choosing(s) alone...

Why he predisposed you be, act, decide, choose a certain way to make you a certain way that He would like or favor more than others, when absolutely none of it was due to or was even remotely because of you or your choosing or your choice or anything by or because of you at all...

If you can figure that out, then you'll "know God"...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Gods foreknowledge - He knows what choices will be made. Each of us has free will to make our choices.

That is a contradiction... How can He know if He doesn't know...? Or how can he not know if he knows...? Or there is the possibility of Him not knowing something or anything (in the "future" I guess you could say, or whatever)...? Because then he couldn't be fully and 100% totally and completely sovereign, omniscient, or whatever...?

God Bless!

 

[Roidecoeur78]

My conversion was kinda out of the blue.

Would you share how it was, summarily? Was it a mystical experience? Did it have a feeling or was it intellectual ?Was it completely outside the contexts of organized religion or by an invitation to it?

 

[ToBeLoved]

He didn't create us to be that way...?

Or Make or made or caused us to be the way we are and/or turn(ed) out...? And everything is the way it is, and where it is, and where it's all going, and what it's going to do or be doing... doesn't He know that all, and at all times, from the very beginning...?

Or not...?

God Bless!

What purpose then does our experiences and choices play.

God created us and we have preferences and personalities of course, but we choose and create our own lives through our choices.

Just because God knows what will happen (omnipresent and omniscient) doesn’t mean God interferes.

 

[ToBeLoved]

That is a contradiction... How can He know if He doesn't know...? Or how can he not know if he knows...? Or there is the possibility of Him not knowing something or anything (in the "future" I guess you could say, or whatever)...? Because then he couldn't be fully and 100% totally and completely sovereign, omniscient, or whatever...?

God Bless!

Why is God’s sovereignty affected by our free will choices?

It’s not. God isn’t less God because I sin or choose wrongly.

I don’t see a contrition here.

 

[section9+1]

Sorry, Neogaia, but I cannot buy that. I will play an active role in my sanctification. If I am damned for being who I am, I call that good, because then I have damned myself and have no one else to blame. If God has damned me through no work of my own, then it just proves my argument. I can damn myself and I can save myself. God has set up the entire system so you can call it his doing, but I play a vital role within that system, independent of God's hand when it comes to my growth and holiness. God and life presents us with options and we are the ones who make the choices. That's where we get our meaning from. That is where making the right choices matter, because I was presented with the wrong choices as well and could have chosen them. Why does it matter if I pass a test? Because I could have flunked it. That's inescapable.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I accept that God is 100% omniscient, BUT very early in Genesis we see God seemingly caught unawares: "Who told you that you were naked?" Or was that just God's way of communicating? When we see Him with Cain, God makes no bones about knowing what Cain did, and on and on. There was just that one time.

My own way of thinking is that on this side of the grass, we seem to have free will. After the resurrection, I tend to think we will know that God saw it all from the beginning, but does that even mean causality? I don't think it is something our limited, three-dimensional, carnal minds can fully comprehend.

 

[Neogaia777]

What purpose then does our experiences and choices play.

That's the questions we need to be asking ourselves, and dig deep into those but only in the light of what I've been talking about about God though, otherwise it leads to all sorts of evil and wickedness...

I would say the purpose and point of all our experience or experiences here, is to make us secure in our salvation of His choosing of us by Him, for Him, and not the other way around, and to also, thereby, and by pondering some of these things and questions and digging deep, thereby getting to know Him in all His fullness and glory...

That's the point of it all...

God created us and we have preferences and personalities of course, but we choose and create our own lives through our choices.

We choose and create our own lives...? Right... Not exactly, and actually not at all, we are here to first understand why we made or make the choices that we do, and much of that will have to do with that it is just how God made, shaped, and formed, and choose to develop us (over others) (and why), and not us really doing any of it/that at all, choosing ect... You are predisposed by all kinds of chemical reactions and so very many very different and very numerous preceding prior factors, leading up to that or any choice, that make up who we are, and why we choose and act and behave the way we do, ect, all of which God fully knows and always knew in all His full "all-knowingness"

Just because God knows what will happen (omnipresent and omniscient) doesn’t mean God interferes.

That's a good question, does the always all-knowing God, does or has he remained pretty much un-involved and distant at times with His creation, from perhaps the beginning of His or this creation or not...?

God Bless!

 

[section9+1]

I accept that God is 100% omniscient, BUT very early in Genesis we see God seemingly caught unawares: "Who told you that you were naked?" Or was that just God's way of communicating? When we see Him with Cain, God makes no bones about knowing what Cain did, and on and on. There was just that one time.

My own way of thinking is that on this side of the grass, we seem to have free will. After the resurrection, I tend to think we will know that God saw it all from the beginning, but does that even mean causality? I don't think it is something our limited, three-dimensional, carnal minds can fully comprehend.

There is something to that although I am not quite sure what. In Genesis when God stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac. God said, NOW I know that you fear God, because.... Like he didn't know before?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Would you share how it was, summarily? Was it a mystical experience? Did it have a feeling or was it intellectual ?Was it completely outside the contexts of organized religion or by an invitation to it?

Well it was like six years ago so I don't remember 100% of it but basically out of the blue I found myself interested in the afterlife. So I googled about the afterlife a bit and Christianity came up. I started to read some articles on the subject and then eventually I ended up praying to Jesus and asking him to save me. But the Holy Spirit kind of lead me to Christianity. I didn't go to Christianity on my own. For me to all of a sudden get interested in Christianity and in the afterlife when I didn't believe in either God or Christianity is just proof to me that God took pity on me and chose me at just the right time in my life.

It was kind of mystical but mostly it was just like... Really? I'm really researching Christianity? Lol.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I would say the purpose and point of all our experience or experiences here, is to make us secure in our salvation of His choosing of us by Him, for Him, and not the other way around, and to also, thereby, and by pondering some of these things and questions and digging deep, thereby getting to know Him in all His fullness and glory...

I think we need to look at how God interacts with ALL of mankind.

God of course interacts more with His Children because WE have chosen Him. We have chosen Him as Lord and Savior. So to me, the Holy Spirit of course convicts us of sin and intercedes for us.

But let’s for a moment look at the unbeliever, the unsaved person. How does what you wrote show how God interacts with them?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well it was like six years ago so I don't remember 100% of it but basically out of the blue I found myself interested in the afterlife. So I googled about the afterlife a bit and Christianity came up. I started to read some articles on the subject and then eventually I ended up praying to Jesus and asking him to save me. But the Holy Spirit kind of lead me to Christianity. I didn't go to Christianity on my own. For me to all of a sudden get interested in Christianity and in the afterlife when I didn't believe in either God or Christianity is just proof to me that God took pity on me and chose me at just the right time in my life.

It was kind of mystical but mostly it was just like... Really? I'm really researching Christianity? Lol.

God is so gracious to us. Great testimony brother.

 

[Neogaia777]

Sorry, Neogaia, but I cannot buy that. I will play an active role in my sanctification. If I am damned for being who I am, I call that good, because then I have damned myself and have no one else to blame. If God has damned me through no work of my own, then it just proves my argument. I can damn myself and I can save myself. God has set up the entire system so you can call it his doing, but I play a vital role within that system, independent of God's hand when it comes to my growth and holiness. God and life presents us with options and we are the ones who make the choices. That's where we get our meaning from. That is where making the right choices matter, because I was presented with the wrong choices as well and could have chosen them. Why does it matter if I pass a test? Because I could have flunked it. That's inescapable.

I suggest you really read and go over carefully what you have just said, cause your not free yet...

You think that what you do, the part and role you play, you, you, you... You working hard, struggling, working, earning... And not seeing any point or plan or purpose otherwise is, "sad" to say the least...

Let me ask you this: Are you a saved person because God chose you, or you chose God...? (If you have really even really chosen God yet or not that is) (fully embraced Him in all His fullness for who and what and all that He is, ect)...

Anyway, cause He chose us or because we chose Him...? Because we did or do, or because he did and does (do) (in us, out through us, from His Spirit within, ect)...

God Bless!

 

[section9+1]

God has offered his salvation to the whole world, so he chooses everyone. But I had to choose him before it could be applied to me. And yes I play a role. If you were drowning in a lake and someone came by and threw you a rope and you reached for it and grabbed it, when you got to shore would you brag about how you saved yourself? God offers and we must respond. Yes, it is about us.

 

[ToBeLoved]

God has offered his salvation to the whole world, so he chooses everyone. But I had to choose him before it could be applied to me. And yes I play a role. If you were drowning in a lake and someone came by and threw you a rope and you reached for it and grabbed it, when you got to shore would you brag about how you saved yourself? God offers and we must respond. Yes, it is about us.

I’m thinking of that verse that says God has made His power known to all in creation.

Do you have the verse