I give up: I'd rather go backwards, than forwards (in Evolution)

Warden_of_the_Storm

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You are overlooking throwbacks.

It is established that past successes, can be revived, in subsequent generations ("he has your grandfather's height", or "your mother's weight" for two examples).

Your argument is that a series of throwbacks, would do nothing to change a genome, that on the other hand keeps changing (from monkey to man? to whatever?)?

There is no way to justify, that? If you are open to change, why not claim so, even despite throwbacks?

A biological throwback is not the same as going backwards in evolution. And talking about familial resemblances is just that: familial resemblances (or familial genetics, rather).

You don't know anything about evolution and you really do not want to learn.
 
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Gottservant

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I have you. Basically.

"Throwbacks are not the same as 'backwards'". ThrowBACK/BACKwards.

You are using 'code' to treat my Lord as if His sacrifice was in vain? As if there is no change you need to make to your Evolution, to justify it continuing "forever"?

Bust.
 
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Freodin

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Come on? Answer the question?

How many times could mankind go back to being a monkey, if a greater Evolution was promised in the end?
How many times can you go back to yesterday, if a better breakfast was promised today?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I have you. Basically.

"Throwbacks are not the same as 'backwards'". ThrowBACK/BACKwards.

You are using 'code' to treat my Lord as if His sacrifice was in vain? As if there is no change you need to make to your Evolution, to justify it continuing "forever"?

Bust.

A throwback is not going backwards. It is just means that something has the characteristics of something earlier. Your definition of backwards in evolution is to fully go backwards from Homo Sapiens to more basal apes.

I am not using 'code' to treat Jesus to anything. You, again, show that you know nothing about evolution.
 
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Gottservant

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Come on, be real.

If it doesn't matter what direction you take, you might as well go off a cliff - "Wow! Imagine how great my adaptations would be, if I could survive jumping off a cliff!!"

Actually, there are parachutes, maybe they will evolve? Should I evolve the parachute before I jump or after or can I do it as I go? How many parachutes should I pray for?? Maybe I should ask for someone else to jump with me and they can give me their parachute?

What is the distinction between Evolution and "free fall", when do you know your game is up? Can you wait, until someone with a parachute comes along? Why then would you wait for Evolution to make sense?
 
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Gottservant

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How many times can you go back to yesterday, if a better breakfast was promised today?

The answer is "no more than you are full with today's breakfast, give or take what you eat in the meantime".

You're acting like it's nonsense, but I gave you an answer.

The only thing your question lacked, was a context in which you could evaluate the breakfast it was supposed to be?

I mean that really is "it": the supply of context, gives meaning to whether there should be adaptations or not. If you consistently ask for adaptations, when what is consistently needed is escape: it won't matter how evolved or unevolved you are - you will be dead!
 
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Gottservant

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I think I have hit upon, what it is that is your motivator:

I almost certainly have a mutation of some kind, and because of that I should be irritated. If I am irritated, I will favour those that have warned me about the danger of mutating, that it should always be accompanied by an impetus to adapt. I am further guaranteed that if I keep this up, I will be interesting to a mate, that will allow my genome to be passed on to the next generation.

There is one problem with this: God already has a design in mind, and if I stray from it, He will be forced to correct me.

Now, you may say "ignore the correction", but the correction is precisely what allows me to survive or even flourish actually - God knows the tolerance of my genome, its vertical applicability and so on and so forth - if I ignore that: God will by no means begin to correct me in a different way, to preserve the relationship. At best I will understand the same correction in two ways, constantly regretting that I did not have parents to guide me or children to be ready for.

The point is that as a Christian, I already have an existing high standard - I don't need Evolution to tell me to wait, for the moment of opportunity, I am exercising for the rise from the grave on a daily basis. I know when I am doing well, what I am doing when I do it well, what is well enough and so on and so forth. It honestly hurts me when you make out that I haven't understood the correction men would make, as opposed to a god that happens to be a living God.

I want to give back, what was given to me, it just makes so much sense. I don't need someone to comb through my adaptations and tell me I am not good enough, am never going to be good enough. I may adopt a higher standard, but in the end, no standard will be enough, for those that rubbish how God has made them. Your one grace, if you take that path, is that you try everything in your power to try, to save yourself, in some way that resembles righteousness. I am not saying that is impossible, I am saying at some point it has to be righteousness - if you can't tell me what that righteousness is, there is no hope for you. At some point, Jesus has enabled righteousness, in you - it is incumbent on you to test that righteousness, along with everything else you test.

Can you test it?
 
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Gottservant

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If I develop a meme, that every individual should restrain themselves, from presuming their evolution, to be better than all but its leader (Darwin) and every subsequent generation is taught this meme:

Will the restraint against proving better, mean "evolution" ceases to 'evolve' its own vanity and if it does, does this mean that it will be more "evolved" - since vanity is detrimental to a response to selection pressure, in general?

I guess what I am asking is: does sin evolve?

The Bible teaches "no temptation has seized you, but that which is common to man" (2 Cor 10:13), so in a sense sin evolves, but only predictably - there is no sin, that somehow surprises other men. Evolution, without surprise then, is also predictable, since we cannot escape the fear that we will be caught in our sin. This is different, to the notion of complete surprise or great surprise - which suggests that because you have defined surprise as relevant, Evolution is able to increase it (the surprise). There is a saving grace in this, because you are able to grasp the way Evolution works, between what surprises and what surprises more.

What surprised me about Evolution, was that you didn't need to do anything about it, to receive the benefit of supposedly gaining momentum in the direction of saving species from destruction, where they did not know what it was, that was going to eliminate them. The more Evolution keeps from being eliminated, the greater Evolution appears to resurrect, even from the need to evolve (not to forget the term, but to be under no compunction to engage with it more than necessary). Just to take a step back, for a minute: what I meant when I said "you didn't need to do anything" is that you don't need to tell people "this specifically will be necessary, or we will not evolve", the same way you don't need to tell someone who has sinned "you have sinned" for their conscience tells them this. So it surprised me, in the sense that, it seemed as if people were aware that they could do greater, as they were - thinking that somehow the edge of space had been reached, with the discovery of Evolution. This power, is the power of the resurrection: not Evolution. Evolution is piggy-backing on the phenomena of what Christ created, in obedience to His Father.

I thought this through and I realised that consistently speaking of Evolution, was no safe-guard against sin and there is sin that leads to death - so you are not guaranteed that a mutation will serve as you imagine it will, when you say "I have mutated and will attempt to adapt regardless". If I did not point this out, I would be lying, because Christ has saved me from my sins; even my egregious sins, that have carried on a long time, Christ saved me from, because God accepted the sacrifice being as for as long enough, that even extensive sins be washed away. The phrase in the Bible is "though your sins be as scarlet, you shall be white as snow"; the phrase in Evolution is "though your mutation be intense, you shall be strong as a monkey", it doesn't quite translate, but you can see where Evolution is going, from the comparison.

So when we say "can sin evolve?" the answer depends entirely on the context, you give that sin. Some sin is punished even when it wasn't known that something was wrong - but this is a good thing: because it means that you are given no incentive to drop your guard, to leave your conscience out of conviction. There may be something that leads to sin, there may be nothing - you really don't know. The point is no one waits on a crashing plane, for the right moment to jump: once they have their parachute, they're gone! Thinking you will evolve sin the right way: is madness. This is a real problem, because there is a selection pressure on sin: the Devil. If the Devil gets wind, that you don't know what to do and can't or won't help, he will make a short work of you and cut you off from God. The ultimate question then, becomes more of a question of "how much can I make of Evolution, I already have?"

This is not a foolish direction to go, questioning how much you can make of what you have, because it is something that will bring you in contact with the righteousness Jesus intended you to have - not because of Him, but because of His God. It creates a sense of awe, at what God is able to do within you, the difference and conviction of the practice of contemplating the relationship between Evolution and God mounts high the expectation that something good will come of keeping back at a point, where God is able to continue to express the greater.

I leave it to you, to see that you wait for God's expression.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I guess what I am asking is: does sin evolve?

So my short answer is that I think it has evolved into non-existence, but your evolution may not have gotten there yet.

A more complete answer: "sin" doesn't have anything to do with evolution -- at all. It's just not an evolution related topic, so your whole post is irrelevant. so tl;dr.
 
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Gottservant

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So my short answer is that I think it has evolved into non-existence, but your evolution may not have gotten there yet.

A more complete answer: "sin" doesn't have anything to do with evolution -- at all. It's just not an evolution related topic, so your whole post is irrelevant. so tl;dr.

But as you age, you sin in different ways?
 
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