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I found this comment in a post.

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by visionary, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Tuesday is Passover on the Zadok Priestly Calendar...and I am Confused
     
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  2. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    Days will be shortened this yr for those who observe the full moon during Shavuot shalom.
     
  3. YHWH_will_uplift

    YHWH_will_uplift Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So are you saying you're confused too sister?
     
  4. Lulav

    Lulav Light dispels Darkness Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Shavuot is from June 8th thru the 10th.

    The full moon for June is on the 17th a week later.

    What are you talking about?
     
  5. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    June 3rd is not Passover.
     
  6. Lulav

    Lulav Light dispels Darkness Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    ??? Who said June 3rd was Passover? This thread is getting more and more confusing! ;)
     
  7. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    If at all possible. The only way I can explain is with the vision given danyl on the 24 day of month 1.
    From there I was continually brought to this in the spirit. i meditated on this for yrs before speaking openly about the subject..
    I can only hope to imagine a full understanding will be revealed in due time.

    So far, the Lord has shown me many things that I only came to find in the tanakh at a later time.

    The cherub angels of His Chariot was one of the first instances.

    So to be honest sis.
    the pieces of the puzzle at times have been very clear. Other times in my personal walk not so much..

    Never having been introduced to certain "Jewish teachers" has been a blessing..

    I only desire to abide in the True Vine.
     
  8. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    That was the day it was posting that it was Passover that day... now you understand my confusion.. and I was wondering if it has to do with the calculations related to Zadok Priestly Calendar
     
  9. Lulav

    Lulav Light dispels Darkness Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I'm sorry but that didn't explain anything. You said this


    Shavuot is from June 8th thru the 10th.

    The full moon for June is on the 17th a week later.

    There is no full moon during Shavuot so are you speaking of a time change, a calendar change, something like Hezekiah's time or Joshua's long day?
     
  10. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Since I saw this in a post, have no clue as to how they figured that out, and wanted yo' all help in understanding the "Zadok Priestly Calendar" which is the basis of this calculation. I realize that there are other calculations out there. But it was this particular "Zadok Priestly Calendar" which I never heard of before. Maybe I should have named this thread. ... Zadok Priestly Calendar
     
  11. YHWH_will_uplift

    YHWH_will_uplift Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They are most likely referring to the DSS where I believe the translator was referring to the contention between the rabbi's--on or about the time of Yeshua--with the descendants of Zadok over the calendar and, the rabbi's trying to exert their control over the Temple. But we know that rabbi's have no control over any temple service as they are only 'teachers' in the literal sense of the word: therefore they would have to be descended from one of Aaron's two sons (1 Chronicles 24:1-3ff.):

    1) Ithamar
    2) Zadok

    Because of this connection the popular term "Zadok Priestly Calendar" was coined. In reality the calendar in the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1 Enoch, and Jubilees are all rooted in the same calendar found in the Bible. All one need do is to look at the story of Noah:

    Noah 600 Years Old - Enters the Ark 2nd Month 17th Day (Genesis 7:6, 11)
    Noah 601 Years Old - Exits the Ark 2nd Month 27th Day (Genesis 8:13-19)

    the above gives us a total of 374 Days so we must now compare the days of the Sun and Moon....

    Sun 374 Days | Moon 354 Days

    ...apparently the Sun has an over/surplus of 10 Days therefore we must add them to the Moon

    Sun 374 Days - 10 Days | Moon 354 Days + 10 Days
    Sun 364 Days | Moon 364 Days

    The story of Noah conclusively proves 1 Solar Year = 364 Days and that each year the Moon falls behind the Sun by 10 Days each year as the Sun will have an overplus of 10 Days.

    As for the calculations it is correct that Passover falls on a Tuesday every year. This conclusion is arrived at by looking at Genesis 1:14-19 where the Sun, Moon and stars were created on the 4th Day of the Week (e.g. Wednesday): therefore this would be the 1st Day of the 1st Month of the 1st Year of Creation:

    Month 01
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07
    ________01 02 03 04
    05 06 07 08 09 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30______

    As we can clearly see from the above evidence Passover will always fall on a Tuesday on God's 364 Day Solar Calendar.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  12. Lulav

    Lulav Light dispels Darkness Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Kind of like the Sadducees calendar which makes first fruits always on a Sunday?
     
  13. YHWH_will_uplift

    YHWH_will_uplift Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Uhhh....I never heard of that but, I wouldn't be so quick to say that the Sadducees or the Pharisees did that. Let's remember what Christ said about them:

    "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees: you will in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven".
    -Matthew 5:20

    This is to say that unless our righteousness will exceed the outward display of righteousness the scribes and the Pharisees put out: we will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. So to enter into it we must have righteousness inside and and out. An example of this is when we say yes with our mouth we also say yes in our heart, this is true righteousness. But if we say yes with our mouth, and no in our heart, then this is false righteousness.

    But going back to the main point, the above is clear with scripture and arithmetic that the way the feasts are being observed at the moment are in error as, God's Calendar is based on the Sun--not the Moon or stars, or seasons, etc.--which is 364 Days in length.
     
  14. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Months are based on the sighting of the moon. All the spring and fall feasts hinge on the spotting of the moon. 14 days from the start of the first month we have Passover, and the Feast of Trumpets starts by two witnesses spotting the new moon.
     
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  15. YHWH_will_uplift

    YHWH_will_uplift Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If we lay out the calendar completely we will see how clearly this 364 Day Solar Calendar aligns with scripture and which calendar systems do not thus we will be able to divide the Light from the Darkness and follow the instruction of separation in the Torah:

    [Spring]
    Month 01 (Gen 1:1 cf. Ex 12:1-2, Num 28:11)
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04 (Gen 1:14-19; 8:13)
    05 06 07 08 09 10 11 (Ex 12:3-6a)
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (Ex 12:6b ff.; 14-20, Lev 23:4-8, Num 28:16-25, Deut 16:1-8)
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Ex 12:14-20, Lev 23:4-8, Num 28:16-25, Deut 16:1-8)
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02 (Lev 23:9-16 ff.)

    [Spring]

    Month 02
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02 (Num 28:11)
    03 04 05 06 07 08 09
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16 (Num 9:1-14, Ex 12:14-20)
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23 (Num 9:1-14, Ex 12:14-20)
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30

    [Spring]
    Month 03
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Num 28:11)
    08 09 10 11 12 13 14
    15 16 17 18 19 20 21 (Lev 23:9-16 ff.)
    22 23 24 25 26 27 28
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04

    [Summer]
    Month 04
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04 (Num 28:11)
    05 06 07 08 09 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02

    [Summer]
    Month 05
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02 (Num 28:11)
    03 04 05 06 07 08 09
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30

    [Summer]
    Month 06
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Num 28:11)
    08 09 10 11 12 13 14
    15 16 17 18 19 20 21
    22 23 24 25 26 27 28
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04

    [Fall]
    Month 07
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04 (Num 28:11; 29:1-6, Lev 23:23-25)
    05 06 07 08 09 10 11 (Lev 23:26-32)
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (Lev 23:33-44)
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Lev 23:33-44)
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02

    [Fall]
    Month 08
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02 (Num 28:11)
    03 04 05 06 07 08 09
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30

    [Fall]
    Month 09
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Num 28:11)
    08 09 10 11 12 13 14
    15 16 17 18 19 20 21
    22 23 24 25 26 27 28 (Jn 10:22 cf. 1 Macc 4:36-59; 2 Macc 1:18-36)
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04

    [Winter]
    Month 10
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04 (Gen 8:5, Jn 10:22 cf. 1 Macc 4:36-59; 2 Macc 1:18-36)
    05 06 07 08 09 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02

    [Winter]
    Month 11
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    26 27 28 29 30 01 02 (Num 28:11)
    03 04 05 06 07 08 09
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30

    [Winter]
    Month 12
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Gen 1:1-2:3)
    01 02 03 04 05 06 07 (Num 28:11)
    08 09 10 11 12 13 14 (Est 9:20-22)
    15 16 17 18 19 20 21 (Est 9:20-22)
    22 23 24 25 26 27 28
    29 30 31 01 02 03 04

    And we know that there are only twelve months in the year because they are numbered after the twelve sons of Israel (Gen 29:31-30:24; 35:16-26 cf. 1 Kings 4:7-18, 1 Chr 27:1-15). We also see from the story of Noah that the four divisions of the year are in the 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th Months. To prove this we look at Noah's birthday which fell on the 1st Day of the 1st Month (Gen 8:13 cf. Gen 7:6, 11a). And the story of Noah proves that each day is composed of 30 Days as the flood occured in the 17th Day of the 2nd Month and, the waters rose for 150 Days (Gen 7:11b, 24); and, after 150 Days the floodwaters began to subside until the ark rest on the mountains of Ararat on the 17th Day of the 7th Month (Gen 8:1-3). So counting 12 Months of 30 Days each from Noah's birthday to his next birthday will result in the calendar layout above. Compare this with the passages found in Jubilees 6:23-32 where we are told that the year is broken up in the same manner above.

    As for the Feast of First fruits which also determines when Feast of Weeks falls, we know it is always on Sunday because the 50th Day will fall on the morrow (Sunday) after the Sabbath (Saturday). Therefore counting backwards we see that the morrow after the Sabbath--which is also the same day the sheaf offering was waved--is on the 26th Day of the 1st Month which you will see above as Sunday. Counting 50 Days from any of the Sabbaths before the 26th Day of the 1st Month will not qualify as the count begins with the waving of the sheaf offering.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  16. Lulav

    Lulav Light dispels Darkness Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I'm going to need more coffee to understand that! :) But thanks for laying it all out.

    I still have a problem with Passover not being near the Spring Equinox as I think it should be.

    Are we to await for the new moon after this?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The March 20-21, 2019, full moon ushers in the first full moon of spring for the Northern Hemisphere, and the first full moon of autumn for the Southern Hemisphere. This full moon is also a supermoon, particularly close to Earth. It comes less than four hours after the arrival of the March 20 equinox.
     
  17. YHWH_will_uplift

    YHWH_will_uplift Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "And David said unto Jonathan, 'Behold, tomorrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat: but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the third day at even.'[...]And Jonathan said unto David, 'O YHWH God of Israel, when I have sounded my father about tomorrow any time, or the third day,[...]Then Jonathan said to David, 'Tomorrow is the new moon: and thou shalt be missed, because thy seat will be empty. And when thou hast stayed three days, then thou shalt go down quickly, and come to the place where thou didst hide thyself when the business was in hand, and shalt remain by the stone Ezel.'[...]So David hid himself in the field: and when the new moon was come, the king sat him down to eat meat. And the king sat upon his seat, as at other times, even upon a seat by the wall: and Jonathan arose, and Abner sat by Saul's side, and David's place was empty. Nevertheless Saul spake not any thing that day: for he thought, 'Something hath befallen him, he is not clean; surely he is not clean'. And it came to pass on the morrow, which was the second day of the month, that David's place was empty: and Saul said unto Jonathan his son, 'Wherefore cometh not the son of Jesse to meat, neither yesterday, nor today?'
    - 1 Samuel 20:5, 12a, 18-19, 24-27

    We see above that the understanding between David, Jesse, and king Saul was that there was no need to use the Moon to track the beginning of the months or, the days of the year: this means that they clearly understood that Moses did not instruct anywhere at anytime to use the Moon's phases nor, the barley to track the beginning of the months or the duration of the months: this is only possible if the calendar they used was solar. And in the passages I cited in post #15 show that the ancient Israelites never had to intercalate any seconds, minutes, days, weeks, months, or years--aside from the four seasonal days at the end of the 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 12th Months--to complete the year with exact precision.

    The translators obviously are showing some gross error as they incorrectly put 'new moon' in place of 'new month'. It is important to not mix up 'month' with 'moon' as they are two different words in every language:

    Old English
    monath 'month'
    menon 'moon'

    Greek
    menas 'month'
    fenggari 'moon'

    Latin
    mensis 'month'
    luna 'moon'

    Hebrew
    CHoDeSH 'month'
    YeRaCH 'moon'

    We can see from the common Proto-Indo European root me- 'measure'--shared by the English, Greek, and Latin--are rooted in the calendar practices of all three nations in measuring the length of the month by the moon: therefore it is easy for many for many to mix up 'month' with 'moon'. We see in history that the Hebrews adopted a lunar observation after leaving Babylonian captivity not before; and this became ingrained into the modern Hebrew mind after being ruled by Greece and Rome who both had lunar calendars during the reign of Alexander the Great and the time of the Caesar's.

    You're welcome sister Lulav! It's a ton of information but, the answers are all there for people to see.

    Why do you think the Passover should be near the spring equinox? If you read and understand Genesis 1:9-13 carefully you will see it is stating the spring equinox always occurs the day before the first day of spring (Genesis 1:14-19). If you look at the calendar layout above you will see that the equinoxes and the solstices always occur on the 3rd Day of the Week (e.g. Tuesday) and the next day marks the first day of the said equinoxes and solstices, which always fall on the 4th Day of the Week (e.g. Wednesday). It is not difficult to fill in the other days from there. The spring equinox fell on March 19th, 2019 of this year:

    This video shows the equinox occuring during solar noon on 03/19/19


    This video shows the results during solar noon on 03/20/19 and compares the results with the ones from the day before


    As for the sighting of the new moon please see my answer above to sister visionary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  18. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Why was it so important that David goes before the King on the new moon? Why did the King miss seeing him during the new moon and the days that followed?
     
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  19. YHWH_will_uplift

    YHWH_will_uplift Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you read the end of the passage passage I cited, you will notice that it is not talking about the physical moon itself: rather the term 'new month' has been rendered by the translators as 'new moon'. The event's of David's hiding in the field are as follows:

    1st Day of David's Hiding = The day before the 'new month'
    2nd Day of David's Hiding = The 1st day of the Month (i.e. the 'new month')
    3rd Day of David's Hiding = The 2nd Day of the Month

    There is no significance of the new moon sister visionary. I used the passage from 1 Samuel 20 to show that the gross error of the translators is a result of confusing the words 'month' and 'moon' with one another. Scripture shows that there is no command nor need for the new moon to guide the months of the year. King Saul did not truly miss David as we read above and, David warned Jesse of this. Let's not forget that in the past Saul tried to kill David so, it's no surprise that David was skittish and afraid at receiving an invitation from Saul to dine with him, especially since Saul offered no token of peace to David to show his sincerity.
     
  20. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    1 Chronicles 23:31
    And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the Lord in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the Lord:

    2 Chronicles 2:4
    Behold, I build an house to the name of the Lord my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the Lord our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

    2 Chronicles 8:13
    Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

    What does David write? A lot of the songs of Psalms..
    Psalm 81:3
    Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.
     
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