Zadok Way Calendar 2024-2025

[HARK!]

it is not a horizontal sundial, it is an equatorial or equinoctial sundial, which means it had to have been set on an angle facing due north from the vernal equinox to the autumnal equinox in order for it to read properly. It is not a circular calendar as Ken Johnson appears to be claiming,

I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying here.

Could it not be both?

The shadows on all of the sundials that I understand at this point, only fall on a half circle.

For what purpose would the Zadokite sundial have graduations on a full circle?

 

[HARK!]

The actual artifact has seventy spaces in the outer ring, thirty-five on the half side

I counted them myself on the image that you presented. You appear to be correct. This is in contrast to the 49+1 Smitah graduations (on the full circle) that Ken Johnson claims.

The circular object with rings and marks was manufactured out of limestone in the shape of a flat basin with a low rim, and only 14.5 cm (about six inches) in diameter. A depression in the centre was obviously intended to hold a short upright stick, the gnomon, whose shadow fell at the different places according to the season and hour. "This is a reconstruction of the sun dial with the gnomon, and you see this was the way it functioned, and this one is very uncommon. In Israel there were discovered nearly 18 sun dials, but this is very unique."

This calls for further investigation.

 

[HARK!]

(despite the ridiculous hit piece in the BAS article "Bad Timing" where I found the above image file)

Here is an image from a more reliable source:

Israel Museum Exhibits - Madain Project (en)

This page attempts to enlist all the exhibits, artefacts currently housed at the Israel Museum.

madainproject.com

 

[daq]

I have either heard (on Youtube) or read (I can't remember which) that the Zadokite writings defining the division of day and night, when the sun is half way above the horizon. This would make sense in comparison to the early Qoph View attachment 345192

I do not understand that symbol-sign for Qoph as the sun on the horizon but rather as a measuring line, H6957 קו Qaw, Qow, (used 22 times in the Prophets), meaning that the symbol is a stick with a ball of twine wound up on the center of the stick, a very common construction tool for the ancients, much like a ball of twine wound up on a stick for a kite string. Hence Qesheth, the more common word for a bow, and that speaks primarily of the bow string, Qaw, for there is another word for a bow now dropped out of the Hebrew, that is Kes, as in Exo 17:16, (the same word for the bow of Kesiyl-Orion), and that bow speaks primarily of the wooden portion of the bow, as opposed to the bow string, Qaw, Qesheth.

I have not confirmed this with an actual manuscript reference.

On a side note, what's this?: View attachment 345194

That is the symbol for midday, the tzohorim, and it is probably from the two constellations that of old time rolled over near the horizon without setting or only partially setting, the half symbol being one of the two constellations which indeed appear to be found in very ancient glyphs. The northern constellation is called Corona Borealis, the northern crown, seven stars in the shape of a U. The other is called Corona Australis and is also seven stars in a very similar shape, the shape of a U. The symbol means "turn", (because they turned in the heavens at the horizon), and although it was not included as a letter of the ABGaD, it may be found in various ancient texts, mostly written on ostraca, (potsherds), and in rock petroglyphs. In the following image file from Har Karkom this symbol may be seen to the extreme left of the standing staff and represents the direction of the script for reading the glyphs, meaning the reading "turns" at the point where the glyph is found. Directly above it may be seen an arrow which is also directing the flow of the text for reading.

The top letter is Ayin, (the O shape without the center dot), down the left side is the arrow directing the flow of the text, and at the extreme left of the image is the U-shaped glyph in question with a horizontal line next to it, (probably a Waw, sideways), and the glyph in question means "turn", (in your reading of the glyphs), and the next glyph is the Feh, the two-horned serpent standing straight up, (likely the staff of Mosheh, (and Pharaoh)). Thus we have Owph, a (fiery) flying serpent. The twisted serpent next to it also has several letters within it which I won't go into here, but one may plainly see the breasts which are the letter Shin/Shaddi, and it appears to also have the same glyph in question here attached to its tail, on the extreme right of the image file, (or it may be an inverted Waw).

 

[daq]

I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying here.

Could it not be both?

The shadows on all of the sundials that I understand at this point, only fall on a half circle.

For what purpose would the Zadokite sundial have graduations on a full circle?

It may have been mounted on a type of platform angled on both sides, (north and south), where the sundial could be flipped at the autumnal equinox so as to be functional during the second half of the year. An equatorial sundial only works facing due north from the vernal equinox to the autumnal equinox because once the sun crosses over the equator it shines no more on the face of the sundial but on the backside of it. If it was set up in such a way that it could be flipped, then it could also have been read throughout the second portion of the year, from autumnal equinox back to the vernal equinox. That would require the full circle as we see it on the face of the sundial.

 

[HARK!]

It may have been mounted on a type of platform angled on both sides, (north and south), where the sundial could be flipped at the autumnal equinox so as to be functional during the second half of the year. An equatorial sundial only works facing due north from the vernal equinox to the autumnal equinox because once the sun crosses over the equator it shines no more on the face of the sundial but on the backside of it. If it was set up in such a way that it could be flipped, then it could also have been read throughout the second portion of the year, from autumnal equinox back to the vernal equinox. That would require the full circle as we see it on the face of the sundial.

I'm not seeing it. I see evenly spaced graduations, referenced by a single index.

 

[HARK!]

In Israel there were discovered nearly 18 sun dials, but this is very unique."

I'm having difficulty identifying all of the other 17; but it appears to be a moot point; as it appears that only one sundial was found at Betharaba (Qumran).


Side note:

Despite the fact that Johnson's renderings of the Zadokite calendar do not represent the sundial found at Betharaba; that does not mean that his date calculations, which were dependent on the Shmitah, are necessarily errant.

Even if his calculations are correct; he should still lose points for attempting to shove a square peg into a round hole.

 

[daq]

I'm not seeing it. I see evenly spaced graduations, referenced by a single index.

Take the image file I posted on the previous page and simply flip it, (vertically), and the dial would then be facing due south instead of due north, and the marks that are on the top of the dial become the bottom of the dial as it faces southward to the south pole.

Facing due north:

Facing due south: (flipped)

The outer ring now marks the midday-tzohorim point on the day portion of the dial because it has been reversed and is facing due south. Does the reader of the dial who is already familiar with it need the midday marked during the winter season? No, he already knows it is the bottom center line on the outer ring of the dial.

 

[daq]

That is the symbol for midday, the tzohorim, and it is probably from the two constellations that of old time rolled over near the horizon without setting or only partially setting, the half symbol being one of the two constellations which indeed appear to be found in very ancient glyphs. The northern constellation is called Corona Borealis, the northern crown, seven stars in the shape of a U. The other is called Corona Australis and is also seven stars in a very similar shape, the shape of a U. The symbol means "turn", (because they turned in the heavens at the horizon), and although it was not included as a letter of the ABGaD, it may be found in various ancient texts, mostly written on ostraca, (potsherds), and in rock petroglyphs. In the following image file from Har Karkom this symbol may be seen to the extreme left of the standing staff and represents the direction of the script for reading the glyphs, meaning the reading "turns" at the point where the glyph is found. Directly above it may be seen an arrow which is also directing the flow of the text for reading.

I took eighteen frames from Stellarium, (version 0.22.2), facing due north on the horizon roundabout 3711 BC, (the year of the flood according to my understanding of the LXX chronology), and made an animated GIF to show what I mean about Corona Borealis being one of the constellations "rolling over" in the heavens, (because it circles so close to the north pole). The only thing I changed in the image files was to add a bright green dot next to the name of the constellation to make it easier to recognize in the GIF. Also of note is the constellation Draco, which is also circumpolar, and as we see it is therefore on the north, which may be implied in various places in the Prophets in places where the say certain things such as destruction coming from the north, (for example Jer 4:6, "evil from the north", constellation Draco representing the Dragon? Jer 51:48 also?).

The bright green dot is next to the name Corona Borealis, the U shaped constellation which turns or roles over in the heavens on the north side just above the horizon.

If this is indeed the U shaped symbol found in ancient glyphs and ostraca then it means to turn. Look again at my version of the calendar: the calendar day changes or turns over at midday, the tzohorim, which means the two lights or double lights. Everything appears to be divided or split: from the evening and the morning being a yom, (meaning evening comes first), to the first day of the year beginning in the midst of the week. This is why I said that the symbol on the sundial in the first image file, at the bottom center of the inner ring, appears to me to be the double version of this U shaped symbol, making it appear as a circle, (because there are two in the heavens: Corona Borealis in the north, and Corona Australis in the south).

 

[HARK!]

Having understood these things I drew it up in haste, and here it is, without leaven.

I found this scholarly count of the partitions on the rings. Being able to see the artifact up close and personal gives him an advantage.

The Qumran Dial: Artifact, Text, and Context - Academia.edu​

The number of graduation marks in each ring - only an estimate because of the object's condition - is as follows: About 60 (6 degrees per graduation) in the inner ring; about 72 (5 degrees per graduation) in the mid( dle ring; and about 90 or 84 (4 degrees per graduation) in the outer ring.

 

[daq]

I found this scholarly count of the partitions on the rings. Being able to see the artifact up close and personal gives him an advantage.

The Qumran Dial: Artifact, Text, and Context - Academia.edu​

The number of graduation marks in each ring - only an estimate because of the object's condition - is as follows: About 60 (6 degrees per graduation) in the inner ring; about 72 (5 degrees per graduation) in the mid( dle ring; and about 90 or 84 (4 degrees per graduation) in the outer ring.

Thanks for the link, (by the way, that link took me to a duckduckgo search, but I found the article by erasing the duckduckgo portion of the web address). In the article the portion which you have quoted appears to be a quote from the author of the PDF quoting the words of another author. The author of the linked PDF is Johnathan Ben Dove, an esteemed Professor at Tel Aviv University, and while that is great, still yet I sense a bias against Qumran just because the Yahad-Community held such a differing view of the Torah and Prophets and modern Judaism. The author appears to be dismissing anything that cannot be proven by empirical evidence, (what is seen on the artifact itself, regardless of the beliefs of the Yahad membership, their writings, etc., etc.), and appears to be completely separating the artifact from the cultural practices of the place where it was discovered. That doesn't bode well as far as I am concerned.

Moreover after the section where he discusses Hollenback's theory, (see below), which is at the end of the PDF, he utterly discounts the possibility that this artifact can be an equatorial sundial simply on the grounds that according to most scholars they didn't exist at the time. This to me is much like the BAS article, (Bad Timing), which stated that smaller sundials were not invented until Hellenistic times and then proceeds in the same article to use the fact that Emperor Augustus brought an obelisk from Egypt and made it into a giant sundial in Rome, in 13 BC, to show that sundials in those times were only gigantic, either ignoring or completely oblivious to the fact that portions and fragments of much smaller Egyptian sundials go back three thousand five hundred years according to archeological finds at this point. Currently the oldest sundial from Egypt was discovered in the valley of the Kings, found on a flat ostraca slab, and is marked just like an equatorial sundial, with the lines being 15 degrees apart. Below is an image file of this sundial from Egypt, and in the linked article below the image file it is stated to be 7 inches wide, 6 inches tall, and 1.3 inches thick, and look what is stated at the close of the article:

"Until recently, it was thought that this type of sundial only became common in the Greco-Roman period, at least 1,000 years later. However, Bickel suggests that the discovery of the Valley of the Kings sundial should inspire researchers to reexamine some of the previously known examples anew."

Lol, that's surely an understatement, and yet so many archeologists and scholars keep repeating the same old outdated information to support their theories.

Artifact - Archaeology Magazine

A 13th-century limestone sundial is one of the earliest timekeeping devices discovered in Egypt

www.archaeology.org

Either way, one of the scholars quoted in the article puts forth the same argument I have suggested herein, under the section titled 3.4 Hollenback, (the name of the author quoted and discussed by Johnathan Ben Dove), which is on page 232 of the linked PDF.

 

[HARK!]

so many archeologists and scholars keep repeating the same old outdated information to support their theories.

Verily!

Moreover after the section where he discusses Hollenback's theory, (see below), which is at the end of the PDF, he utterly discounts the possibility that this artifact can be an equatorial sundial simply on the grounds that according to most scholars they didn't exist at the time. This to me is much like the BAS article, (Bad Timing), which stated that smaller sundials were not invented until Hellenistic times and then proceeds in the same article to use the fact that Emperor Augustus brought an obelisk from Egypt and made it into a giant sundial in Rome, in 13 BC, to show that sundials in those times were only gigantic, either ignoring or completely oblivious to the fact that portions and fragments of much smaller Egyptian sundials go back three thousand five hundred years according to archeological finds at this point. Currently the oldest sundial from Egypt was discovered in the valley of the Kings, found on a flat ostraca slab, and is marked just like an equatorial sundial, with the lines being 15 degrees apart. Below is an image file of this sundial from Egypt, and in the linked article below the image file it is stated to be 7 inches wide, 6 inches tall, and 1.3 inches thick, and look what is stated at the close of the article:

Wow!

I didn't read the PDF. I found the details that I was looking for right in the duckduckgo link; and the website with the PDF wanted my email address, before I could read it.

 

[daq]

Verily!

One thing I learned a long time ago: not only archeology, but also science, and even Christian scholarship are all plagued with the idea and background thinking that the ancients were not much better off than neanderthals, (whether some realize it or not). All are not that way, but the majority in those fields do seem to be affected/infected by such thinking. Surely, in their minds, the ancients were in no way as smart as they imagine themselves to be today, and certainly could not have been even smarter or more knowledgeable than they imagine themselves to be today. You can see this mentality sometimes even in some of those who preach against the Torah, where sometimes the thinking that Mosheh himself was not much smarter than a cave man comes out in the backdrop of their reasoning for why the Torah is no longer applicable today, (it comes out if you pay close enough attention to their thinking within their arguments). For the same reasons, western cultural brainwashing, (for lack of a more appropriate way to put it), people cannot seem to fathom the idea that the ancients could know the day of the astronomical equinox by way of a sundial without the expertise of NASA, or that they could not have known how to make a sundial before the Greeks supposedly invented it in the more modern new age of Greek "enlightenment".

 

[daq]

@HARK!

PS: I apologize, in my last post I forgot to mention something I'm pretty sure would be important to you about that link. When I went there I did not need to download the PDF to read it. The opening top page is made to look as though you need to download the PDF in order to read it but that's probably just a design gimmick to get you to join. If you scroll down the page, beyond the several links to other related articles, below the opening page, the PDF is actually posted on the same page without going anywhere else, so that it may be read online without downloading the whole PDF. You should be able to just add it to your favorites and go back to it later if you do not have time to read it all at once.

Here is the link without the search string code:

The Qumran Dial: Artifact, Text, and Context

This is no formal abstract. Basicaly I am trying to raise some skepticism with regard to previous interpretations suggested for this sundial, which are all problematic. If somebody wanted to follow seasonal hours and the cardinal points of the sun,

www.academia.edu

And while I am at it, here is the link to one of the shorter supplementary articles by Hollenback. Take a look at the Beijing sundial which he uses for comparison: it looks as though perhaps Ken Johnson may have gotten his idea for the shmittah sections on his circular calendar from this or similar more recent sundials. I hope you are able to get into these PDF's.

More on the Qumran Roundel as an Equatorial Sundial

This article continues the argument that the Qumran roundel is a sundial capable of measuring off constant solar hours.

www.academia.edu

 

[HARK!]

One thing I learned a long time ago: not only archeology, but also science, and even Christian scholarship are all plagued with the idea and background thinking that the ancients were not much better off than neanderthals, (whether some realize it or not). All are not that way, but the majority in those fields do seem to be affected/infected by such thinking. Surely, in their minds, the ancients were in no way as smart as they imagine themselves to be today, and certainly could not have been even smarter or more knowledgeable than they imagine themselves to be today. You can see this mentality sometimes even in some of those who preach against the Torah, where sometimes the thinking that Mosheh himself was not much smarter than a cave man comes out in the backdrop of their reasoning for why the Torah is no longer applicable today, (it comes out if you pay close enough attention to their thinking within their arguments). For the same reasons, western cultural brainwashing, (for lack of a more appropriate way to put it), people cannot seem to fathom the idea that the ancients could know the day of the astronomical equinox by way of a sundial without the expertise of NASA, or that they could not have known how to make a sundial before the Greeks supposedly invented it in the more modern new age of Greek "enlightenment".

I used to manage a guy who was far more brilliant than I; and he was extremely obnoxious.

He had a very strong background in math and science; but he flunked out at college.

One day he told me that he basically told his Professor to shut up and speak when he is spoken to, that he wasn't interested in his course study. That isn't what he was paying him for; that he was paying him for the information that he wanted. He told his Professor that it was his job to take the information that was in his Professor's head; and to put it into his head.

That should begin to give you a picture of how difficult it was to manage this guy. I couldn't fire him. He was too valuable to me and the company.

I have no idea how smart he was. I realized that one must be smarter than the person who he is assessing in order to be able to measure what he understands.

He was constantly goading me.

One day we were having a dispute. I don't remember what it was about; but he was arguing with me over how to approach a problem in the face of the empirical evidence. He started arguing with me over the empirical evidence. I finally got short and sweet with him; and I exclaimed that this is science.

He came back with explaining that science is bunk. It's all about making money. Someone wants science to support their mission; so they hire scientists to give them the results that they are looking for. If they produce those results; they get paid. If the evidence is contrary to the mission, they're let go.


He was not winning my support; but some years later his point began to sink in.

I have noticed that scholars tend to build on the faulty scholarship that precedes them. Few seem to be willing to challenge the status quo. If they do; sometimes their credibility is attacked and destroyed.

If one takes out a student loan to get a doctorate; there is strong incentive to be careful to ensure that one can continue practicing in that field, to pay back the loan.

 

[Yahudim]

I'm totally lost.

When I responded 'PREFECT!' to @daq - I didn't mean to imply that I 'perfectly' understood his entire premise, but rather that I understood his examples and that I would eventually be able to work it out. Sorry if I misled you.

There is a huge Sundial and a Foucault Pendulum at the local Museum of Natural Science. Repeated trips to the museum throughout the school year found me spending many hours on that plaza at the sundial pondering the experiments prescribed for us kids. The same can be said with pendulum indoors and every other exhibit within the museum. It's still one of my favorite places to visit.

At my middle school, we installed hooks to suspend multiple pendulums from the ceiling of the gymnasium, to replicate Foucault's demonstration of the Earth's rotation and for further experiments, such as the 'Cavendish' experiment to measure gravitational attraction of objects by mass. Buried deep within my damaged brain are the hidden keys to this enlightened investigation. It's just a matter of digging them out.

I endured some catastrophic neurological damage that inhibits immediate recognition of certain processes. I have many of these deeply embedded memories and they have a way of resurfacing if I dwell on the related imagery long enough. It's likened to finding one's way to a childhood home by visualizing landmarks that have long ago fallen to demolition and new construction. It's difficult but most times doable.

When I read your and daq's posts about the Zadok calendar, I see related images in my mind and, in time, the thoughts expressed and the relationships to which you have alluded become clearer. I can work out the details slowly, but I often know whether I agree or not immediately. The phrase, '...through a glass darkly' comes to mind.

When you speak of the shortsightedness of members of certain academic disciplines, I completely agree and am reminded of the mathematicians of cultural, racial or gender minority that made the many early NASA successes possible by out performing the computers designed to replace them. What is funny though, is that after those early successes were realized, the real heroes of the space age were being sequestered 'in the wings' while the politicians and administrators of an 'acceptable' stereotype took center stage.

The sad fact is, the dominant sect of any population always seems to discriminate unfairly. I could cite examples but that seems redundant and ridiculously obvious to the unbiased observer and equally ridiculous to a biased observer, but for a different cause entirely.

Another sad fact is that mankind seems to be getting less, not more enlightened; less, not more capable. Take Adam's ability to name all the creatures our Father brought to him - as an example and as a baseline. Now recalculate the capabilities of ancient man based on our current standards for a 'genius' or an 'enlightened' individual.

I believe mathematics is as ancient as Eden. Adonai and His hosts recognized how capable the engineers of the Tower of Bavel were and said as much. So much so, they had to be stopped for their own sake and the sake of man.

So when I think of:

1. a Foucault Pendulum, I remember how long man has been tinkering with plumb lines.
2. a sundial, I think of NASA, astrophysics and celestial mechanics.
3. Enoch, I think of a book meant to be understood by man.
4. Entertainment, I think of a time when man was observing and meditating on the heavens and the Creator - in terms of Psalm 19.

I'm glad that neither of you limit your estimations of the capabilities of ancient man based on what academia believes. I say, recalculate as if to spite them. Then, in my estimation, you may get a little closer to the truth.

Finally, I wish to thank you both for all your work and to apologize for not being able to carry my weight in this conversation. I have been working on a more detailed view of this topic and a few suggestions too. But I'm not nearly as far along as I would like.

Again, many thanks and blessings,

 

[daq]

I took my image file for the hours of calendar day, (both civil and sacred), which is essentially a sundial, and slightly increased the size to get it to match the picture of the artifact below. It is not an exact match but that is likely because the image of the artifact is taken from a slightly angled perspective and not from directly above the artifact. However many of the lines still match, and what I found amazing, is that the Shabbat hour of the day is marked on the artifact: but it had to be remarked on the outer edge after the piece was severely damaged in that area of the dial. The first image file below is the sundial of the calendar days, which most here have probably already seen in the past, since I have posted it many times throughout the forums over the past several years. The second image file below it is the same image overlaid on one of the images of the dial found at Qumran.

The Shabbat hour is from the bottom of the ninth hour, (evening portion of the hour), to the bottom of the tenth on the civil calendar day. The hours of the civil calendar day are essentially based on the sundial and the rising of the sun. However, on the sacred calendar day of seven hours in a day, the hours are staggered and commence on the half-hour of the hours of the civil calendar day, thus the seventh hour of the sacred calendar day commences at the bottom of the ninth hour of the civil calendar day. The morning oblation is in the middle of the six morning hours of the civil calendar day, and the evening oblation is in the middle of the six evening hours of the civil calendar day, (between the evenings). It appears to me that the members of the Yahad knew these things and practiced them: I learned them from the Torah, Prophets, Writings, and the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts, or I would not have seen any of it here in this piece.

 

[HARK!]

In my continued studies of the calendar, I've been seeking info regarding the Zadokites who went to Egypt. I wonder if this is why Yahshua was led to Egypt, as a child, rather than any other place to flee in the world.

In my studies I stumbled onto some interesting information regarding the Hebrews at Elephantine.



As a side discussion, did the Hebrews at Elephantine flip the calendar that the Zadokites at Betharaba validated?

According to the manuscripts found at Elephantine, it would appear so.