I don't understand...

[aiki]

I don't understand why people believe in some supreme being.

Obviously, because there is reason to do so.

It makes absolutely no sense.

I disagree. But you're entitled to your opinion.

There is no evidence at all of its existence.

Well, clearly, you don't know what you're talking about. To better inform yourself check out:

ReasonableFaith.org – Defend Biblical Christianity, Apologetics, Bible Questions
Stand to Reason
The Institute for Creation Research

Science has found the answers to almost everything that was once thought of as Gods doing. What keeps you believing in this?

Oh? Science reveals how things work but it does not - indeed cannot - tell us anything beyond this. The facts that the scientific method uncovers are interpreted by scientists in accord with their philosophical (not scientific) presuppositions. Most secular scientists are philosphical naturalists which means that they believe a priori that the supernatural does not exist. It is no surprise, then, that they interpret what science reveals to support this belief.

If you'll take a careful look at the websites I suggested to you, you'll see why I believe in God.

Selah.

 

[chrisstavrous]

Chrisstavrous: Inasmuch as you are not a Christian, and are promoting anti-Christian views on this thread, and are in violation of forum rules in posting I would ask you to cease posting in this thread. If you have points or questions you want to make, start your own thread. Thanks.

Then why let non believers join the forum at all? Is it to only to appear open to all people but in fact you only desire to convert others. If you want to help your jesus convert my heart then you better start acting like you care and show by your actions you really would love me as he would, because anything less than this only proves you dont love him either.

 

[LastSeven]

Yeah you've lost me on this one.

Of course I have.

Let me try an easier example. Historians tell us that Napoleon Bonaparte said "A picture is worth a thousand words". Do you believe that he indeed said this?

How can you believe it, if you can't prove it?

 

[chrisstavrous]

You are going in circles. Using your logic, I could say that you believed in that monster under your bed because you were afraid of what it might do to you if you did not believe.

Now tell me. Is that really the reason you believed in that monster? Of course not, because in order to be afraid of what the monster might do to you, you first have to believe in the monster.

So don't tell me that I believe in God because I'm afraid of what he might do to me if I don't. If you don't understand your own logic then please don't use it on me.

Ahh ok.

 

[aiki]

Then why let non believers join the forum at all? Is it to only to appear open to all people but in fact you only desire to convert others. If you want to help your jesus convert my heart then you better start acting like you care and show by your actions you really would love me as he would, because anything less than this only proves you dont love him either.

None of what you've written here changes the fact that you are in violation of forum rules in posting on this thread. Do you believe being a non-Christian gives you the right to ignore the forum rules?

You aren't prevented from posting; just do so in a thread that you have started.

Being open about my faith and desiring to convert the unsaved are not mutually exclusive things. They go hand-in-hand. But I do realize that I can convert no one. That is entirely God's job. All I really do is point others to Him.

In any case, letting you violate forum rules as you like does not prove that I love you. And asking you to observe the forum rules does not prove that I hate you. Please just do as the forum rules dictate. Thanks.

Selah.

 

[Snake75]

Think about what you're saying here. Who do you think created gravity? Who do you think gave the birds hollow bones?

It may surprise you to learn that science doesn't actually do anything, it only discovers things that already exist. That's the definition of science. The discovery of God's creation. So again, just because science has figured out how things work doesn't mean God didn't make them work that way.

I think no one created gravity. We don't know yet what did cause it. But still a better answer then god. Birds have hollow wings because of evolution. No one gave it to them.

 

[LastSeven]

Birds have hollow bones because of evolution? So the bird's DNA at one point must've thought "hey, I have these wings with feathers 'n all but I can't fly. Must be because my bones are too heavy. I'll fix that! From this point forward all my offspring will have hollow bones!". And so as it was spoken, it was. The end.

So you would rather believe that creatures are able to change themselves, than to believe that they were intelligently created in the first place. Which one of us requires the greater faith?

 

[chrisstavrous]

Of course I have.

Let me try an easier example. Historians tell us that Napoleon Bonaparte said "A picture is worth a thousand words". Do you believe that he indeed said this?

How can you believe it, if you can't prove it?

I understand what your saying, that believing in historical accounts takes faith. Lets assume this is true, then can my faith in these accounts be changed if new information comes to light? yes. Can I discard anything false about these accounts when I find them to in error? of course. Can I use current knowledge to test these accounts to verify them? Yes and will I defend these accounts even after I know them to be false? no.

I dont think we are talking about the same method of faith here but faith without reason becomes retarted.

 

[LastSeven]

To a certain extent we are talking about the same method of faith, but I think where we really diverge is believing in the supernatural. You may believe that Jesus was a real man based on historical accounts, but not that he gave sight to the blind, or was born of a virgin. And if it is indeed the supernatural that has you stumped then that is a different line of reasoning altogether.

 

[Snake75]

Birds have hollow bones because of evolution? So the bird's DNA at one point must've thought "hey, I have these wings with feathers 'n all but I can't fly. Must be because my bones are too heavy. I'll fix that! From this point forward all my offspring will have hollow bones!". And so as it was spoken, it was. The end.

So you would rather believe that creatures are able to change themselves, than to believe that they were intelligently created in the first place. Which one of us requires the greater faith?

This gives somewhat of an idea. Its still not fully discovered.But, it makes a lot more sense then an deity.
insidescience(remove)org/content/how-birds-evolved-small-meat-eating-dinosaurs/1416

 

[chrisstavrous]

None of what you've written here changes the fact that you are in violation of forum rules in posting on this thread. Do you believe being a non-Christian gives you the right to ignore the forum rules?

You aren't prevented from posting; just do so in a thread that you have started.

Being open about my faith and desiring to convert the unsaved are not mutually exclusive things. They go hand-in-hand. But I do realize that I can convert no one. That is entirely God's job. All I really do is point others to Him.

In any case, letting you violate forum rules as you like does not prove that I love you. And asking you to observe the forum rules does not prove that I hate you. Please just do as the forum rules dictate. Thanks.

Selah.

Np

 

[Snake75]

Chrisstavrous: Inasmuch as you are not a Christian, and are promoting anti-Christian views on this thread, and are in violation of forum rules in posting I would ask you to cease posting in this thread. If you have points or questions you want to make, start your own thread. Thanks.

Isn't that what I'm doing to? lol

Christian forums are so complicated for no reason.

 

[LastSeven]

The theory of evolution has so many holes in it, it's amazing that people are still considering it. No creature has ever become a different creature.

Have you heard of the fruit fly experiments? They set out to prove evolution and ended up proving only that it is impossible.

No Fruit Fly Evolution Even after 600 Generations

 

[chrisstavrous]

Birds have hollow bones because of evolution? So the bird's DNA at one point must've thought "hey, I have these wings with feathers 'n all but I can't fly. Must be because my bones are too heavy. I'll fix that! From this point forward all my offspring will have hollow bones!". And so as it was spoken, it was. The end.

So you would rather believe that creatures are able to change themselves, than to believe that they were intelligently created in the first place. Which one of us requires the greater faith?

Birds didnt say hey, because birds became birds through a very long process of natural selection. Animals change to the growing and changing world around them, they grow new things and discard others and keep things that are universally useful in order to survive. It maybe that something has designed this long ago, but that does not mean that something is jesus.

 

[Snake75]

The theory of evolution has so many holes in it, it's amazing that people are still considering it. No creature has ever become a different creature.

Have you heard of the fruit fly experiments? They set out to prove evolution and ended up proving only that it is impossible.

And your saying the bible has no holes. The bible is one big hole. The only thing that is good in the bible are some of the 10 commandments and some of "Jesus"'s teachings.

You really need to understand. Evolution was NOT a quick thing. A lizard did not come from a snake's egg. It happened over millions of millions of years. Slowly changing the organism.

Only 5% of scientist believe in creationism and about 70% of Americans believe in evolution. Your saying all of them are wrong and your Christian God created us?

 

[chrisstavrous]

The theory of evolution has so many holes in it, it's amazing that people are still considering it. No creature has ever become a different creature.

Have you heard of the fruit fly experiments? They set out to prove evolution and ended up proving only that it is impossible.

No Fruit Fly Evolution Even after 600 Generations

You bet it does and you can also bet that if evolution is fully disproven then a better theory will replace it. Science is self improving, the bible is not.

 

[chrisstavrous]

To a certain extent we are talking about the same method of faith, but I think where we really diverge is believing in the supernatural. You may believe that Jesus was a real man based on historical accounts, but not that he gave sight to the blind, or was born of a virgin. And if it is indeed the supernatural that has you stumped then that is a different line of reasoning altogether.

No, I used to believe in the fantastic accounts of the bible but not after I applied reason to that faith.

 

[LastSeven]

Birds didnt say hey, because birds became birds through a very long process of natural selection. Animals change to the growing and changing world around them, they grow new things and discard others and keep things that are universally useful in order to survive. It maybe that something has designed this long ago, but that does not mean that something is jesus.

Is there any proof that "animals grow new things and discard others"?

There are variations within every species, just as there are variations within the human race. Some people have brown eyes, some blue. Some people have lots of hair, some people very little. Some people have dark skin and some light, but despite all these variations we are all still human.

This is how it is with animals too. Variations within species exist, but no species can ever give rise to another, nor can animals from different species mate and produce offspring. If all animals really were descended from a single cell then how would science explain those boundaries that now exist between species?

 

[LastSeven]

Science is self improving, the bible is not.

You say that as though requiring improving is a good thing.

 

[LastSeven]

Only 5% of scientist believe in creationism and about 70% of Americans believe in evolution. Your saying all of them are wrong and your Christian God created us?

Given the fact that out of all the religions in the world, only a single one, if any, can be right and the fact that not a single religion has 50% of the world's population adhering to it, proves that whichever group is right, they are in the minority.