I don't understand...

[chrisstavrous]

You seem to mistakenly believe that Christians take their belief in God from evidence found in the world, and that is why you can't understand it. Christians take their belief in God based on the authority of His word; they are convinced (by the power of the Holy Spirit) that whatever is written in the Bible is the truth, the only absolute truth there is. Whatever is found in the world is just whatever the world tells of itself; not that it doesn't matter at all, it tells us some pretty neat and useful stuff (some of it for the betterment of society). Yet all of it should be used to the glory of God its creator.

The only thing that sustains my belief is God; if He chooses to turn from me, then I will lose my faith.

And god can do that? only one word for it F.U.B.A.R

 

[Snake75]

I believe in God for three reasons;

1. Because I have the external witness of creation
2. Because I have the internal witness of the conscience
3. Because God's Word has proven itself trustworthy

What has science found that is not "God's doing"?



I have no problem crediting doctors for their work. But the question is, where did the doctor's knowledge come from? Where did his skill come from? Where did the medical science and technology come from that allowed him to do those things? Those things are all common graces of God.



If true, then where did the first organism from which you claim we evolved come from? And what was that organism?



If you know so much about the scriptures, then why did you have to go to an atheist website to copy and paste a list of somebody else's questions?



Do you have evidence for this claim?

I apologize in advance because I'm using my phone right now and can't quite well with it. So I'm gonna have to break it down

The world was once thought to spin around the sun because of God. Now we know it is gravity. Pretty much everything use to be explained by God. How can birds fly? Because God allows them too!!!! Science has explained all these things.

The knowledge was from going to school for 8 years
Working their butt off and trying as hard as they can. The tools they use came from scientists who thought of new ideas on how to improve medical tools.


Already said it on page 4.


I know a good amount about the bible. I only used a few other mistakes in the Bible from other people


The bible ripped off of many other stories. But to keep it simple I'll just use Greek mythology
cracked(remove).com/funny-3778-5-bible-stories-ripped-off-from-greek-mythology/

 

[Snake75]

I would have to say, F.E.A.R

But I could be wrong.

What is the meaning of F.E.A.R? I tried a Google search and found nithkng.
But if your talking about fear. Then what are you fearful of?

 

[LastSeven]

The world was once thought to spin around the sun because of God. Now we know it is gravity. Pretty much everything use to be explained by God. How can birds fly? Because God allows them too!!!! Science has explained all these things.

Think about what you're saying here. Who do you think created gravity? Who do you think gave the birds hollow bones?

It may surprise you to learn that science doesn't actually do anything, it only discovers things that already exist. That's the definition of science. The discovery of God's creation. So again, just because science has figured out how things work doesn't mean God didn't make them work that way.

 

[LastSeven]

We'll work our way through these as time permits but let's start with your first point.

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

These are the generations as listed in Matthew chapter 1.

1. Abraham
2. Isaac
3. Jacob
4. Judah
5. Perez
6. Hezron
7. Ram
8. Amminadab
9. Nahshon
10. Salmon
11. Boaz
12. Obed
13. Jesse
14. David

Now you count and tell me whether there are 13 or 14 generations listed there. Hint: Abraham and David both represent generations. So your answer is 14.

 

[chrisstavrous]

What is the meaning of F.E.A.R? I tried a Google search and found nithkng.
But if your talking about fear. Then what are you fearful of?

Yes fear, the christian faith is based on ideas of fear that keeps the believer believing. Even the idea of gods free love has to be accepted with the idea that god will punish you for not accepting it. So it is not free without some core element of fear.

 

[LastSeven]

2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn't Paul guilty of deception?

Really? Do you really think that Paul must be lying because the words he quoted were not recorded in scripture? That's like saying my shirt is not red because it wasn't written down in the book of shirts.

How do you know Jesus didn't say those words? Were you with Jesus every waking moment of his time on earth? Did you write down everything Jesus ever said?

Who do you think is more qualified to quote the words of Jesus? You, or somebody who not only met Jesus face to face but lived during the times of his disciples who verbally quoted and spread the words of Jesus throughout the land?

Furthermore, scripture specifically says that not everything Jesus said or did was recorded. Obviously. Can you imagine how many books would have to be written to record everything one man has ever said?

John 20:30
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

John 21:25
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

You could say those words of Jesus are not found in our Bible today, but to claim that as proof that he never said it is simply absurd.

 

[chrisstavrous]

Think about what you're saying here. Who do you think created gravity? Who do you think gave the birds hollow bones?

It may surprise you to learn that science doesn't actually do anything, it only discovers things that already exist. That's the definition of science. The discovery of God's creation. So again, just because science has figured out how things work doesn't mean God didn't make them work that way.

No it doesnt, but does that mean it was jesus who made it that way. Since the bible contains no science to the fact how are we to know it was jesus?

 

[LastSeven]

Yes fear, the christian faith is based on ideas of fear that keeps the believer believing. Even the idea of gods free love has to be accepted with the idea that god will punish you for not accepting it. So it is not free without some core element of fear.

It's written in scripture "those who are born again do not have to fear the second death". We don't believe because we fear punishment, but rather we don't fear punishment because we believe.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

If it was fear that kept us believing as you say, then our faith would be useless. For what is faith in life, if we fear death?

 

[LastSeven]

No it doesnt, but does that mean it was jesus who made it that way. Since the bible contains no science to the fact how are we to know it was jesus?

How do you know Einstein discovered E=MC2? Were you there when he figured it out? Can science prove that it was his idea? No. You believe it because you believe the source of this information to be reliable. I believe biblical scriptures to be reliable.

 

[bling]

This is from a science channel this reseach really happen. Where does it say chemicals evole? chemicals formed to create life then it started to evolve.


Edit: Here is the research. I thought a youtube video whould make it simplier.dailygalaxy(remove).com/my_weblog/2013/05/complex-biochemical-processes-possible-at-origins-of-life-on-earth.html

The “Science Channel”???

I did watch this explanation for children that does not address the problems.

There are really five huge problems with the forming of life that really have to come together.

Science has really moved away from the primal soup idea because of water: water is a very small molecule that gets between larger molecules and since it is vibrating it breaks them up. RNA just would not stay around very long in water.

Today the evidence is showing as soon as liquid water started remaining liquid on earth there was DNA biological single cell organisms, which would suggest going from chemicals to life, should be easily done, since in comparison it took billions of years for a single cell to go to multicellular life forms, yet that transformation had the evolutional system to help it. Science agrees that perhaps the greatest discovery they could make is the production of life from strictly chemical, especially in a similar way to it is thought happened on earth. They have been working hard on this discovery and the more they find out the more they realize they do not know.

The YouTube guy made the formation of RNA sound easy, but no one knows how RNA could be made without DNA around. RNA can form or transform DNA to make RNA, but in a cell. It takes proteins to make DNA and DNA to make proteins.

Yes RNA might change to other RNA over time and can fold around, but that is not “evolving”.

The huge problems include:

1. The creation of DNA in a stable environment.
2. The creation of proteins that could read the DNA and do something with the information.
3. A reproducible energy transformation system (converting the outside energy source into cell usable energy).
4. The cell wall (allows good stuff in and bad stuff out).
5. The other parts of a cell that manage (intelligence) all the different reactions.

Your YouTube guy does realize the difficulty in making DNA and RNA being a more likely precursor, but RNA lacks some key elements of DNA and is not that much more stable.

 

[chrisstavrous]

It's written in scripture "those who are born again do not have to fear the second death". We don't believe because we fear punishment, but rather we don't fear punishment because we believe.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

If it was fear that kept us believing as you say, then our faith would be useless. For what is faith in life, if we fear death?

Yes, you believe that because you fear what will happen if you don't.

 

[dhh712]

And god can do that? only one word for it F.U.B.A.R

From your perspective. For me, God's sovereignty is a great source of comfort.

 

[LastSeven]

Yes, you believe that because you fear what will happen if you don't.

Think about what you're saying. If the fear of God's wrath could make one believe, then wouldn't one first have to believe in God's wrath?

 

[chrisstavrous]

How do you know Einstein discovered E=MC2? Were you there when he figured it out? Can science prove that it was his idea? No. You believe it because you believe the source of this information to be reliable. I believe biblical scriptures to be reliable.

What einstein said is not a matter of faith or salvation in some other life, his theories can be tested, changed, proven or disproven. What the bible says is a matter of faith and salvation for some other life and it can't be, changed or proven but it can be tested and disproven

 

[LastSeven]

What einstein said is not a matter of faith or salvation in some other life, his theories can be tested, changed, proven or disproven. What the bible says is a matter of faith and salvation for some other life and it can't be, changed or proven but it can be tested and disproven

You misunderstand the point. It's not about whether his theories can be proven, it's about whether or not the claim that he theorized them can be proven.

You can prove E=MC2 just as you can prove birds have hollow bones, but how do you prove the creator of either the theory or the bones? In either case, it comes down to believing your source of information. You have faith in your sources, I have faith in mine.

 

[chrisstavrous]

Think about what you're saying. If the fear of God's wrath could make one believe, then wouldn't one first have to believe in God's wrath?

No, fearing something you believe does not have to make that belief real. People fear lots of things that are not real, when I was a child I used to think there was a monster under my bed and I would be afraid to sleep untill I looked, was there a monster? no. In the same way hell is the monster under our beds terrifying us untill we confront our fear and take a look.

 

[chrisstavrous]

You misunderstand the point. It's not about whether his theories can be proven, it's about whether or not the claim that he theorized them can be proven.

You can prove E=MC2 just as you can prove birds have hollow bones, but how do you prove the creator of either the theory or the bones? In either case, it comes down to believing your source of information. You have faith in your sources, I have faith in mine.

Yeah you've lost me on this one.

 

[aiki]

Chrisstavrous: Inasmuch as you are not a Christian, and are promoting anti-Christian views on this thread, and are in violation of forum rules in posting I would ask you to cease posting in this thread. If you have points or questions you want to make, start your own thread. Thanks.

 

[LastSeven]

No, fearing something you believe does not have to make that belief real. People fear lots of things that are not real, when I was a child I used to think there was a monster under my bed and I would be afraid to sleep untill I looked, was there a monster? no. In the same way hell is the monster under our beds terrifying us untill we confront our fear and take a look.

You are going in circles. Using your logic, I could say that you believed in that monster under your bed because you were afraid of what it might do to you if you did not believe.

Now tell me. Is that really the reason you believed in that monster? Of course not, because in order to be afraid of what the monster might do to you, you first have to believe in the monster.

So don't tell me that I believe in God because I'm afraid of what he might do to me if I don't. If you don't understand your own logic then please don't use it on me.