Hymns like this?

[AlexLL]

Even in your example, people could rightly say I helped save that guy's life.

No one is arguing that Jesus deserve 100% of the Glory. So often we are the tools He uses...making us participants.

So when if I pray for a non-believer and they later become Christian, should I then have hymns sung to me in a worship service? Should people ask me to save them?

I totally understand where you are coming from, but hymns like what was shown in the OP go way over the top.

 

[concretecamper]

So when if I pray for a non-believer and they later become Christian, should I then have hymns sung to me in a worship service? Should people ask me to save them?

I totally understand where you are coming from, but hymns like what was shown in the OP go way over the top.

I think the song is way over the top from those with preconceived ideas......similar to the reason why I do not have a problem with such a song.....I approach it as if all Glory goes to God, we participate in the building up of His Kingdom......and Mary is the model of the Church leading all to her Son.

 

[Albion]

What do you mean?

I mean that the hymn drives home its theme in a number of ways with various wordings. The attempt to boil the concern that's been expressed here down to the lone word save doesn't come close to dealing with the issue that was raised.

 

[Albion]

That's just one version of the hymn, the wording can change based on who has either written it or revised it.

All right. Does that mean you can appreciate the reservations that some Christians have about this particular version?

 

[VolRaider]

So when if I pray for a non-believer and they later become Christian, should I then have hymns sung to me in a worship service? Should people ask me to save them?

I totally understand where you are coming from, but hymns like what was shown in the OP go way over the top.

I was a little saddened by seeing that line as well. It needs to disappear. I am very aware that the RC/EO do not worship Mary, but that line makes it sound like they do. Mary does not save. That's a basic belief among all Christians.

 

[George95]

All right. Does that mean you can appreciate the reservations that some Christians have about this particular version?

Of course, I respect all the opinions of all, whether they're the ones I share or not. However, my opinion is that the hymns such as this shouldn't really be taken at face value and just running with them.

 

[George95]

I was a little saddened by seeing that line as well. It needs to disappear. I am very aware that the RC/EO do not worship Mary, but that line makes it sound like they do. Mary does not save. That's a basic belief among all Christians.

Again, that would simply be a wording concern. The Liturgy does saves By the intercessions of the Theotokos, Savior save us. So I understand where you are coming from, but again, it's a different meaning.

 

[Albion]

Again, that would simply be a wording concern. The Liturgy does saves By the intercessions of the Theotokos, Savior save us. .

That's probably a point worth considering, but the Hymn stands on its own in any case. We can't say that what it states isn't to be taken at face value only because there is some wording elsewhere, such as in the liturgy, that is different.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is just a few sections of the Small Paraklesis to the Theotokos(Virgin Mary), and I know that some feel that hymns like these are either Unbiblical or even Blasphemous to some extent. I've always wondered about this, and felt that General Theology would be the best place to get thoughts and opinions.

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Assaults of the passions have shaken me,
My soul to its limits
Has been filled with much despair;
Bring peace, O Maiden, in the calmness,
Of your own Son and your God, all‑blameless One.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

To God and the Savior you've given birth;
I ask you, O Virgin,
From the dangers deliver me;
For now I run to you for refuge,
With both my soul and my reasoning.

Now and forever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Diseased is the body and the soul;
Deem me truly worthy
Of divine guidance and your care;
For you alone are God's Mother,
As the good and the birthgiver of the Good.

----------

O Lord, I have heard of
the wondrous mystery of Your salvation;
I have contemplated all Your works
And I have glorified Your great divinity.

Most Holy Theotokos, save us.

Still the darkest of passions,
Calm the sea of errors
In your great peacefulness;
It was you who bore the guiding Lord,
And you who are the blessed bride of God.

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Your depth of compassion
Grant unto me
As one beseeching you;
You have carried the Compassionate
The Savior of those praising you.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit[bless and do not curse]

We are thankful for all the gifts
Which we have been given
by you the Spotless One;
And to you, we sing a hymn of praise,
Knowing you to be the Mother of God.

Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

As a hope and foundation,
And a wall unshaken
Of our salvation;
Having you, the all‑lauded One,
From afflictions do you rescue us.

I have honestly never even known hymns like this existed.
With all due respect, I think a hymn such as this is very unbiblical.

What do you see as unbiblical about it?


.

 

[George95]

That's probably a point worth considering, but the Hymn stands on its own in any case. We can't say that what it states isn't to be taken at face value only because there is some wording elsewhere, such as in the liturgy, that is different.

Hmm, alright. Well this is what I think: We know that Christ is the only one who can save us, we all know that. I'm sure my fellow Orthodox Christians can agree with me that when we look at the hymn and see lines like the one in question, we know that what it states isn't what it is, but rather simply a mere wording concern.

 

[Albion]

What do you see as unbiblical about it?

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Assaults of the passions have shaken me,
My soul to its limits
Has been filled with much despair;
Bring peace, O Maiden, in the calmness,
Of your own Son and your God, all‑blameless One.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

To God and the Savior you've given birth;
I ask you, O Virgin,
From the dangers deliver me;
For now I run to you for refuge,
With both my soul and my reasoning.

Now and forever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Diseased is the body and the soul;
Deem me truly worthy
Of divine guidance and your care;
For you alone are God's Mother,
As the good and the birthgiver of the Good.

----------

O Lord, I have heard of
the wondrous mystery of Your salvation;
I have contemplated all Your works
And I have glorified Your great divinity.

Most Holy Theotokos, save us.

Still the darkest of passions,
Calm the sea of errors In your great peacefulness;
It was you who bore the guiding Lord,
And you who are the blessed bride of God.

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Your depth of compassion
Grant unto me
As one beseeching you;
You have carried the Compassionate
The Savior of those praising you.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit[bless and do not curse]

We are thankful for all the gifts
Which we have been given
by you the Spotless One;
And to you, we sing a hymn of praise,
Knowing you to be the Mother of God.

Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

As a hope and foundation,
And a wall unshaken
Of our salvation;
Having you, the all‑lauded One,
From afflictions do you rescue us.

 

[George95]

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Assaults of the passions have shaken me,
My soul to its limits
Has been filled with much despair;
Bring peace, O Maiden, in the calmness,
Of your own Son and your God, all‑blameless One.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

To God and the Savior you've given birth;
I ask you, O Virgin,
From the dangers deliver me;
For now I run to you for refuge,
With both my soul and my reasoning.

Now and forever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Diseased is the body and the soul;
Deem me truly worthy
Of divine guidance and your care;
For you alone are God's Mother,
As the good and the birthgiver of the Good.

----------

O Lord, I have heard of
the wondrous mystery of Your salvation;
I have contemplated all Your works
And I have glorified Your great divinity.

Most Holy Theotokos, save us.

Still the darkest of passions,
Calm the sea of errors In your great peacefulness;
It was you who bore the guiding Lord,
And you who are the blessed bride of God.

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Your depth of compassion
Grant unto me
As one beseeching you;
You have carried the Compassionate
The Savior of those praising you.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit[bless and do not curse]

We are thankful for all the gifts
Which we have been given
by you the Spotless One;
And to you, we sing a hymn of praise,
Knowing you to be the Mother of God.

Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

As a hope and foundation,
And a wall unshaken
Of our salvation;
Having you, the all‑lauded One,
From afflictions do you rescue us.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the highlighted parts.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Albion

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Assaults of the passions have shaken me,
My soul to its limits
Has been filled with much despair;
Bring peace, O Maiden, in the calmness,
Of your own Son and your God, all‑blameless One.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

To God and the Savior you've given birth;
I ask you, O Virgin,
From the dangers deliver me;
For now I run to you for refuge,
With both my soul and my reasoning.

Now and forever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Diseased is the body and the soul;
Deem me truly worthy
Of divine guidance and your care;
For you alone are God's Mother,
As the good and the birthgiver of the Good.

----------

O Lord, I have heard of
the wondrous mystery of Your salvation;
I have contemplated all Your works
And I have glorified Your great divinity.

Most Holy Theotokos, save us.

Still the darkest of passions,
Calm the sea of errors In your great peacefulness;
It was you who bore the guiding Lord,
And you who are the blessed bride of God.

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Your depth of compassion
Grant unto me
As one beseeching you;
You have carried the Compassionate
The Savior of those praising you.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit[bless and do not curse]

We are thankful for all the gifts
Which we have been given
by you the Spotless One;
And to you, we sing a hymn of praise,
Knowing you to be the Mother of God.

Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

As a hope and foundation,
And a wall unshaken
Of our salvation;
Having you, the all‑lauded One,
From afflictions do you rescue us.
​

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the highlighted parts.

I was about to post almost the identical thing you did! How freaky is that?

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Assaults of the passions have shaken me,
My soul to its limits
Has been filled with much despair;
Bring peace, O Maiden, in the calmness,
Of your own Son and your God, all‑blameless One.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

To God and the Savior you've given birth;
I ask you, O Virgin,
From the dangers deliver me;
For now I run to you for refuge,
With both my soul and my reasoning.

Now and forever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Diseased is the body and the soul;
Deem me truly worthy
Of divine guidance and your care;
For you alone are God's Mother,
As the good and the birthgiver of the Good.

----------

O Lord, I have heard of
the wondrous mystery of Your salvation;
I have contemplated all Your works
And I have glorified Your great divinity.

Most Holy Theotokos, save us.

Still the darkest of passions,
Calm the sea of errors
In your great peacefulness;
It was you who bore the guiding Lord,
And you who are the blessed bride of God.

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

Your depth of compassion
Grant unto me
As one beseeching you;
You have carried the Compassionate
The Savior of those praising you.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit[bless and do not curse]

We are thankful for all the gifts
Which we have been given
by you the Spotless One;
And to you, we sing a hymn of praise,
Knowing you to be the Mother of God.

Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

As a hope and foundation,
And a wall unshaken
Of our salvation;
Having you, the all‑lauded One,
From afflictions do you rescue us.

.

 

[Albion]

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the highlighted parts.

The highlighted parts are the unbiblical parts. Mary does not have the powers to do what is claimed by the hymn that she does, and it is wrong to attribute the powers or authority of God to her. Even if one were to say that she does have some of this authority, because of some speculation, it's not grounded in anything Biblical. Do respond, if you have other thoughts to add.

 

[George95]

I was about to post almost the identical thing you did! How freaky is that?




.

Who, me or Albion?

 

[Albion]

I was about to post almost the identical thing you did! How freaky is that?

Possibly freaky, certainly interesting.

I do not include the parts that refer to her as the mother of God or as the birth-giver of God, but I did slip up by not highlighting the final "of our salvation." You were right to cite that.

 

[Albion]

Who, me or Albion?

I'm thinking that the second set of edits was from LLOJ, but I can appreciate the uncertainty.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

I was about to post almost the identical thing you did! How freaky is that?
​

​

Who, me or Albion?

Quit confusing me!!

1Co 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace,
as in all the churches of the saints.

.

 

[George95]

Lol so much confusion.

 

[AlexLL]

What do you see as unbiblical about it?


.

Although I may be repeating what others have said, I see it as giving attributes to Mary that only God has. I am also very uncomfortable with the hymn being dedicated to praising Mary during a service for the worship of God.