Hunter Biden notified Burisma colleague of planned Blinken meet: emails

[SimplyMe]

Many, yes.

I'd love to see a citation for this, particularly since you originally were claiming that most worked for the government as Intel agents.

Are we talking about 2016? Or 2020?





Ok....when you say "it wasn't suppressed"....

Do you mean that multiple outlets like CNN and WaPo immediately dismissed the story as Russian disinformation? There's so many reporters who used the letter and more articles than I can count....

Want me to just start posting everyone citing the letter that got it wrong?

Again, as I've told you before, the letter was only released 5 days after the story broke. As such, it wasn't "suppressed" because of the letter; that decision was made days before the letter was written and signed. In fact, Blinken didn't even talk to Morrell until Oct. 17, three days after the story broke; which is three days after the various news outlets had already decided not to print the story.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'd love to see a citation for this, particularly since you originally were claiming that most worked for the government as Intel agents.


Again, as I've told you before, the letter was only released 5 days after the story broke. As such, it wasn't "suppressed" because of the letter; that decision was made days before the letter was written and signed. In fact, Blinken didn't even talk to Morrell until Oct. 17, three days after the story broke; which is three days after the various news outlets had already decided not to print the story.

What part of this equals "proof it wasn't suppressed" in your mind?

Anyone who already understood that so many news outlets like WaPo are nothing more than Democratic Party propaganda knew they wouldn't be running a negative story about Biden in October....

Why that suddenly means that the fact they spent the next several weeks dismissing the story as disinformation makes it as if they weren't suppressing the story is what I don't understand....

The aren't neutral. They're extremely biased. If they decide to not run the story one day....and it starts picking up steam....they need an explanation why.

Otherwise they obviously look like Democratic Party propaganda.

Once they had that letter....they used it to discredit and suppress the story.

 

[SimplyMe]

What part of this equals "proof it wasn't suppressed" in your mind?

Anyone who already understood that so many news outlets like WaPo are nothing more than Democratic Party propaganda knew they wouldn't be running a negative story about Biden in October....

Why that suddenly means that the fact they spent the next several weeks dismissing the story as disinformation makes it as if they weren't suppressing the story is what I don't understand....

The aren't neutral. They're extremely biased. If they decide to not run the story one day....and it starts picking up steam....they need an explanation why.

Otherwise they obviously look like Democratic Party propaganda.

Once they had that letter....they used it to discredit and suppress the story.

Yes, I'm sure Fox News and the Wall Street Journal both refused to run the story because they are nothing more than "Democratic Party propaganda."

 

[Say it aint so]

Already have - and others - like I said if it is not believed, considered or understood the number of times it has been mentioned since 2019 - the chances are slim it will now -

Well you haven't provided any proof. You only videos of people making the same accusations and equally providing no specific accounts of illegalities or influence peddling. I ask again, post the specific illegalities and influnce peddling in written form rather than just throwing videos over the fence and expect others to find the claims that don't exist.

 

[Say it aint so]

Many, yes.





Are we talking about 2016? Or 2020?





Ok....when you say "it wasn't suppressed"....

Do you mean that multiple outlets like CNN and WaPo immediately dismissed the story as Russian disinformation? There's so many reporters who used the letter and more articles than I can count....

Want me to just start posting everyone citing the letter that got it wrong?

So many as in two, or fifty?
And no, the WaPo asked for means to verify the account, they were denied by Rudy.

 

[Say it aint so]

It sure looks like Blinken knew. Are you saying none of the 51 retained security clearances? The 51 should all be called to testify. Blinken also had testified he never emailed Hunter, and now we know that is a lie as well.

Well of course Blinken and everyone in the US knew about the story. I suggest you read the letter, they lay out their view and why they came to it.

 

[Say it aint so]

I think people understand quite well the difference between claiming there is evidence and actually providing the evidence.
Once seems a lot more frequent than the other - perhaps even infinitely so.

Not here at CF.
It's just make claims.
Have people ask for proof of those claims;
Then the claimant points back to the claims as proof.
Then a perpetual exercise of wash, rinse, and repeat.

 

[Say it aint so]

What part of this equals "proof it wasn't suppressed" in your mind?

Anyone who already understood that so many news outlets like WaPo are nothing more than Democratic Party propaganda knew they wouldn't be running a negative story about Biden in October....

Why that suddenly means that the fact they spent the next several weeks dismissing the story as disinformation makes it as if they weren't suppressing the story is what I don't understand....

The aren't neutral. They're extremely biased. If they decide to not run the story one day....and it starts picking up steam....they need an explanation why.

Otherwise they obviously look like Democratic Party propaganda.

Once they had that letter....they used it to discredit and suppress the story.

Clearly since FOXnews and the WSJ choose not to run the story along with the WaPo; while the NYPost author refused to put their name on the byline, there is nothing political biased about it at all. I mean if you have of all orgs, FOXnews who is getting sued left and right for lying not cover it, that speaks volumes. Your argument surrounding this scenario just doesn't work.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, I'm sure Fox News and the Wall Street Journal both refused to run the story because they are nothing more than "Democratic Party propaganda."

I'm not so sure they didn't mention the story.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, I'm sure Fox News and the Wall Street Journal both refused to run the story because they are nothing more than "Democratic Party propaganda."

I'm not so sure they didn't mention it...

A quick check reveals that despite some initial hesitancy....October 20th -30th they were reporting details in the laptop.

So again....would you like to see what a disinformation campaign looks like???

FLASHBACK: MSNBC, CNN, CBS told viewers Hunter Biden laptop story was Russian disinformation

Liberal media outlets MSNBC, CNN and CBS repeatedly disregarded the Hunter Biden laptop story in the month leading up to the 2020 presidential election, calling it "Russian disinformation," among other things.

www.foxnews.com

We start this hour with the tale of international espionage connected to a close confidante of the President of the United States," MSNBC's Ali Velshi said on Oct. 17, 2020. "The president was reportedly warned that his personal attorney, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani was the target of a Russian intelligence operation, a story that is unraveling to reveal allegations of disinformation, dirty tricks and a federal probe over Russian efforts to disparage Joe Biden."

You see? They're definitely reporting on it....they're spreading disinformation.

Days later on October 22, Biden campaign advisor Symone Sanders appeared on the liberal news network and bluntly stated that any attempts by then-President Trump to amplify the story would be viewed as "Russian misinformation." Sanders now is an MSNBC contributor herself.

"It is so obviously a Russian operation." MSNBC contributor Jason Johnson parroted less than a week earlier.


Your "theory" (and I'm being really generous in calling it a theory) doesn't hold up....many many outlets reported on the story....as part of a disinformation campaign.

Do you think any of these outlets didn't know the guy signing the letter (which didn't claim to know anything) was a regular WaPo contributer?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here's a good story of how even left wing outlets attacked their colleagues for even trying to verify the story....

Journalists Join Dem Operatives in Attacking Fellow Reporters over Biden-Burisma Story | National Review

Reporters who dared to address the story were slammed as tools of a disinformation campaign.

www.nationalreview.com

Here's the Biden campaign..
Michael Carpenter was as clear as he could be last week, the day the New York Post exposed emails allegedly found on Hunter Biden’s laptop tying his father to his Ukrainian business dealings: The story was nothing more than “a Russian disinformation operation.”

“I’m very comfortable saying that,” Carpenter, a senior aide with former vice president Joe Biden’s presidential campaign, told Politico.


Here's the Democrat Schiff on CNN...

In an interview with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, Democratic congressman Adam Schiff said it was clear “the origins of this whole smear are from the Kremlin.

The New York Times’ Maggie Haberman and Politico’s Jake Sherman were excoriated on Twitter for even acknowledging the story, even as they questioned the reporting behind it.

Twitter piles on any credible reporter questioning the story.






Bo Erickson, a reporter with CBS News, was taken to task by partisans — and fellow journalists — for simply asking Joe Biden about the report. Biden called it “another smear campaign” and said it was right up Erickson’s alley.

Ben Rhodes, former deputy national-security adviser under former President Barack Obama, said Erickson “is acting as the far end of a Russian disinformation operation.”

That's pretty harsh...

"ABC News political analyst Matthew Dowd replied to Erickson’s report on Twitter, saying, “Lordy, you ask someone about an article that has already been proven false and having Russia propaganda as its basis? I would suggest taking a look in the mirror.”

When Politico’s Marc Caputo defended Erickson for asking Biden about the report, he was blasted on Twitter by Neera Tanden, president of the Center for American Progress.

“This stance means you are perfectly happy being a tool of a Russian campaign to hurt one candidate and help another,” she wrote. “You’ve learned zero since 2016.”

Shall I continue? Because the internet "way back machine" keeps close tabs on this stuff....we know who was in on it and who wasn't.


I don't know in what reality you're living @Say it aint so...but the idea that this isn't a disinformation campaign for Biden by the media and big tech is pure nonsense. That's exactly what a disinformation campaign looks like. Compare that to an actual Russian operation of a few stories on Facebook groups that nobody really cares about.....and tell me which is more important.

The sad truth is that you no longer have any credible media sources apart from maybe Rueters....and they are increasingly partisan....or maybe independent journalists. ABC, CBS, MSNBC, The NYT, WaPo, LATimes, Boston Times, and the rest of them are no more credible than the the New York Post.

 

[SimplyMe]

I'm not so sure they didn't mention it...

A quick check reveals that despite some initial hesitancy....October 20th -30th they were reporting details in the laptop.

So again....would you like to see what a disinformation campaign looks like???

FLASHBACK: MSNBC, CNN, CBS told viewers Hunter Biden laptop story was Russian disinformation

Liberal media outlets MSNBC, CNN and CBS repeatedly disregarded the Hunter Biden laptop story in the month leading up to the 2020 presidential election, calling it "Russian disinformation," among other things.

www.foxnews.com

We start this hour with the tale of international espionage connected to a close confidante of the President of the United States," MSNBC's Ali Velshi said on Oct. 17, 2020. "The president was reportedly warned that his personal attorney, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani was the target of a Russian intelligence operation, a story that is unraveling to reveal allegations of disinformation, dirty tricks and a federal probe over Russian efforts to disparage Joe Biden."

You see? They're definitely reporting on it....they're spreading disinformation.

Days later on October 22, Biden campaign advisor Symone Sanders appeared on the liberal news network and bluntly stated that any attempts by then-President Trump to amplify the story would be viewed as "Russian misinformation." Sanders now is an MSNBC contributor herself.

"It is so obviously a Russian operation." MSNBC contributor Jason Johnson parroted less than a week earlier.


Your "theory" (and I'm being really generous in calling it a theory) doesn't hold up....many many outlets reported on the story....as part of a disinformation campaign.

Do you think any of these outlets didn't know the guy signing the letter (which didn't claim to know anything) was a regular WaPo contributer?

Here is an article that states, "Fox News reportedly declined the chance to run Rudy Giuliani’s Hunter Biden emails story amid reported concerns on its credibility." The article goes on to say, "Fox News was reportedly unhappy at the lack of verification that the laptop actually belonged to Mr Biden and had concerns about Mr Giuliani’s reliability as a source, insiders told mediaite.com."

On October 23 the Wall Street Journal was still disputing the claims of the NY Post story, stating, "corporate records reviewed by The Wall Street Journal show no role for Joe Biden." Along with that, they still claimed they could not determine the authenticity of the laptop, which is why they refused to run the story (why the NY Post eventually ran the story."

If you want to know why the story was "repressed," though I'm sure you'll complain that this is from NBC, this article lays out compelling reasons for the MSM not to cover the story, "Most mainstream news organizations, including NBC News, have not been granted access to the documents. NBC News asked by email, text, phone call and certified mail, and was ultimately denied." They also point out, "But the Wall Street Journal and Fox News — among the only news organizations that have been given access to key documents — found that the emails and other records don’t make that case. Leaving aside the many questions about their provenance, the materials offered no evidence that Joe Biden played any role in his son’s dealings in China, let alone profited from them, both news organizations concluded."

Giuliani and Bannon were actively shopping the stories around to right wing media -- they decided they specifically wanted The Wall Street Journal due to its perceived credibility. The issue was, the Wall Street Journal 1) couldn't verify the laptop and 2) didn't see where the laptop showed Joe Biden was involved -- despite hearing the claims and documents Bobulinski provided. They tried at Fox News and were again turned down for basically the same reasons. So they went to a "tabloid" newspaper, knowing they had far less strict standards, and got them to run the story -- with the main author of the article refusing to allow his name to be used.

So other news outlets try to get their own copies of the documents in question and Giuliani refuses -- he will not give any information to "the MSM." After a couple of days, the NY Post does put copies of a couple of the emails on their website in PDF format, but the emails are lacking the header information that would allow experts to prove the emails are "genuine" (that they were actually emails and not just something anyone could have typed up). This article does a good job of explaining the issue with the copies the NY Post made available.

The letter by the foreign intelligence officials added to the overall "noise" about the issue but had no real impact, particularly with the Director of National Intelligence coming out the same day and stating that there was no evidence of Russian propaganda, in regard to the laptop. The letter came out five days after the story broke, a lifetime in these types of stories, and -- as documented in the NBC article above, the MSM already had solid reasons for not covering the story.

 

[Say it aint so]

I don't know in what reality you're living @Say it aint so...but the idea that this isn't a disinformation campaign for Biden by the media and big tech is pure nonsense. That's exactly what a disinformation campaign looks like. Compare that to an actual Russian operation of a few stories on Facebook groups that nobody really cares about.....and tell me which is more important.

The sad truth is that you no longer have any credible media sources apart from maybe Rueters....and they are increasingly partisan....or maybe independent journalists. ABC, CBS, MSNBC, The NYT, WaPo, LATimes, Boston Times, and the rest of them are no more credible than the the New York Post.

In a word, nonsense. There are people within a political party, then there are TV talking heads. Neither are journalists or journalism. It's sad you found an article that conflates the two. Your article even goes on to talk about how people on twitter are commenting. Really? Again, I subscribe to the NYTimes. Again, you don't mention anything about FOX or the WSJ also not covering the initial Hunter Biden laptop story that really isn't a story. Your beef is both the Times and the WaPo had the audacity to ask for means of verification and in not getting that refused to run the story and now you accuse them of disinformation. I mean, what?

 

[Ana the Ist]

In a word, nonsense. There are people within a political party, then there are TV talking heads.

Increasingly these are the same people.

Neither are journalists or journalism.

What is these days?

It's sad you found an article that conflates the two.

How so?

Your article even goes on to talk about how people on twitter are commenting. Really?

Yeah....one of those people is currently a pick for the Biden cabinet. I'd draw you a diagram of people spreading disinformation for Biden and people benefiting off the Biden Administration but in many cases....it's a straight line....and I don't want to confuse you.

Again, I subscribe to the NYTimes.

Sorry to hear that...is it too late for a refund?

Again, you don't mention anything about FOX or the WSJ also not covering the initial Hunter Biden laptop story that really isn't a story.

When did it not become a story?

What does the initial reaction have to do with the weeks of news outlets spreading disinformation up until the election....and afterwards in many cases
....before admitting they were "lying" (because they knew it was real) months later?

Your beef is both the Times and the WaPo had the audacity to ask for means of verification

They could have called the FBI. They could have called the Biden campaign. They could have called the New York Post. You know....reporting. Journalism. They could have done their jobs.

and in not getting that refused to run the story and now you accuse them of disinformation. I mean, what?

Who refused them?

You do realize there's a wide gulf between running a statement that says "we are unable to verify the contents of the story at this time and as responsible news sources, with ethics, we will not comment on it at thus time."


And....


"This story is a hoax created by the Trump campaign working with Russia and should be regarded as a total lie....vote Biden."

 

[Ana the Ist]

@Say it aint so ....as a current data analyst (close enough anyway) in the federal government, I can say with high confidence that this example of a left wing Democratic Party media disinformation campaign....has all the earmarks of a left wing media disinformation campaign for the Democratic Party. You may recall the attempted cancelation of Joe Rogan for the crime of podcasting....it included a bevy of musicians so old that most people under 20 had to Google them, an "outraged" black woman who no one ever heard of....and a letter from a bunch of doctors who used their expertise to claim Rogan was spreading disinformation about medical stuff....

Now, just like during the Biden campaign.....this letter was all that many of the left wing propaganda outlets needed to spread disinformation about Rogan (many already were doing so....like CNN) but unfortunately, a list of doctors doesn't have the same weight as former intelligence officials and people who still have brain cells that they use and understand the mainstream media is just as biased as Fox and can't be trusted to do the bare minimum of legitimate reporting....they decided to look up the names on the letter....


Surprise surprise....the majority weren't doctors, and many weren't even medical professionals. They were medical students and activists.

And why are you complaining about reporters and media correspondents on Twitter if you were willing to impeach Trump over Russian nobodies on Facebook? What exactly is wrong with using them as examples?

 

[Say it aint so]

They could have called the FBI. They could have called the Biden campaign. They could have called the New York Post. You know....reporting. Journalism. They could have done their jobs.



Who refused them?

You do realize there's a wide gulf between running a statement that says "we are unable to verify the contents of the story at this time and as responsible news sources, with ethics, we will not comment on it at thus time."


And....


"This story is a hoax created by the Trump campaign working with Russia and should be regarded as a total lie....vote Biden."

???
They could have called the FBI? The affairs of Hunter Biden are part of an ongoing investigation. The Biden campaign is not making the allegations. The guy who throughout 2019-2020 was working with Russian agents to find what ever they can to October surprise the Biden campaign was making the allegations. So yes, those who do investigative journalism are going to ask for some kind of verification. And this is what they got from Rudy:

"Complicating matters was that the source of the hard drive, Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, refused to share it with other news organizations, including The Washington Post and the New York Times. Few were willing to report information in the New York Post stories without their own due diligence, especially if Russia was once again seeking to meddle in the election."​

...and this even regarding FOXnews

​

"But according to two sources familiar with the matter, the lack of authentication of Hunter Biden’s alleged laptop, combined with established concerns about Giuliani as a reliable source and his desire for unvetted publication, led the network’s news division to pass."​

​

So the hard drive is shared with people throughout wingnut-ville as in Rudy and the felon Steve Bannon, but not actual news journalists. But to you it's a left wing conspiracy enacting disinformation.

​

 

[Say it aint so]

@Say it aint so ....as a current data analyst (close enough anyway) in the federal government, I can say with high confidence that this example of a left wing Democratic Party media disinformation campaign....has all the earmarks of a left wing media disinformation campaign for the Democratic Party. You may recall the attempted cancelation of Joe Rogan for the crime of podcasting....it included a bevy of musicians so old that most people under 20 had to Google them, an "outraged" black woman who no one ever heard of....and a letter from a bunch of doctors who used their expertise to claim Rogan was spreading disinformation about medical stuff....

Now, just like during the Biden campaign.....this letter was all that many of the left wing propaganda outlets needed to spread disinformation about Rogan (many already were doing so....like CNN) but unfortunately, a list of doctors doesn't have the same weight as former intelligence officials and people who still have brain cells that they use and understand the mainstream media is just as biased as Fox and can't be trusted to do the bare minimum of legitimate reporting....they decided to look up the names on the letter....


Surprise surprise....the majority weren't doctors, and many weren't even medical professionals. They were medical students and activists.

And why are you complaining about reporters and media correspondents on Twitter if you were willing to impeach Trump over Russian nobodies on Facebook? What exactly is wrong with using them as examples?

Good Lord...Joe Rogan? Yes, it's a vast left wing conspiracy theory to cancel what the don't like. Isn't Joe Rogan the same guy who said point blank no one should take what he says seriously?

 

[Say it aint so]

Here is an article that states, "Fox News reportedly declined the chance to run Rudy Giuliani’s Hunter Biden emails story amid reported concerns on its credibility." The article goes on to say, "Fox News was reportedly unhappy at the lack of verification that the laptop actually belonged to Mr Biden and had concerns about Mr Giuliani’s reliability as a source, insiders told mediaite.com."

On October 23 the Wall Street Journal was still disputing the claims of the NY Post story, stating, "corporate records reviewed by The Wall Street Journal show no role for Joe Biden." Along with that, they still claimed they could not determine the authenticity of the laptop, which is why they refused to run the story (why the NY Post eventually ran the story."

If you want to know why the story was "repressed," though I'm sure you'll complain that this is from NBC, this article lays out compelling reasons for the MSM not to cover the story, "Most mainstream news organizations, including NBC News, have not been granted access to the documents. NBC News asked by email, text, phone call and certified mail, and was ultimately denied." They also point out, "But the Wall Street Journal and Fox News — among the only news organizations that have been given access to key documents — found that the emails and other records don’t make that case. Leaving aside the many questions about their provenance, the materials offered no evidence that Joe Biden played any role in his son’s dealings in China, let alone profited from them, both news organizations concluded."

Giuliani and Bannon were actively shopping the stories around to right wing media -- they decided they specifically wanted The Wall Street Journal due to its perceived credibility. The issue was, the Wall Street Journal 1) couldn't verify the laptop and 2) didn't see where the laptop showed Joe Biden was involved -- despite hearing the claims and documents Bobulinski provided. They tried at Fox News and were again turned down for basically the same reasons. So they went to a "tabloid" newspaper, knowing they had far less strict standards, and got them to run the story -- with the main author of the article refusing to allow his name to be used.

So other news outlets try to get their own copies of the documents in question and Giuliani refuses -- he will not give any information to "the MSM." After a couple of days, the NY Post does put copies of a couple of the emails on their website in PDF format, but the emails are lacking the header information that would allow experts to prove the emails are "genuine" (that they were actually emails and not just something anyone could have typed up). This article does a good job of explaining the issue with the copies the NY Post made available.

The letter by the foreign intelligence officials added to the overall "noise" about the issue but had no real impact, particularly with the Director of National Intelligence coming out the same day and stating that there was no evidence of Russian propaganda, in regard to the laptop. The letter came out five days after the story broke, a lifetime in these types of stories, and -- as documented in the NBC article above, the MSM already had solid reasons for not covering the story.

Yes that's right. They are upset because media outlets refused to cover the story because they couldn't get verification, even from Rudy. Even FOXnews and the WSJ and the NYPost reporter who refused to put his name on the byline. To them, doing a little actual journalism is a left wing conspiracy to suppress the story.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Good Lord...Joe Rogan?

You don't recall that letter?

Yes, it's a vast left wing conspiracy theory to cancel what the don't like.

You believe the bogus letter, the washed up musicians, and the ridiculous supercut of Rogan happening in the space of about a month was coincidence?

Isn't Joe Rogan the same guy who said point blank no one should take what he says seriously?

I can't say I've ever heard an entire podcast from him.

???
They could have called the FBI?

Yeah.

The affairs of Hunter Biden are part of an ongoing investigation.

And? They've got leaks in the FBI on basically every investigation that doesn't involve a Biden or their loyal dogs.

Besides, pointing out that it wasn't Russian disinformation doesn't hurt the investigation....because it wasn't. If they said nothing else...they could have said that.

The Biden campaign is not making the allegations.

Biden himself said it was Russian disinformation. That's an allegation.

The guy who throughout 2019-2020 was working with Russian agents to find what ever they can to October surprise the Biden campaign was making the allegations.

No idea who this refers to.

So yes, those who do investigative journalism are going to ask for some kind of verification. And this is what they got from Rudy:

"Complicating matters was that the source of the hard drive, Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, refused to share it with other news organizations, including The Washington Post and the New York Times. ​

They could have asked the NY Post.

Few were willing to report information in the New York Post stories without their own due diligence, especially if Russia was once again seeking to meddle in the election."​

...and this even regarding FOXnews

​

"But according to two sources familiar with the matter, the lack of authentication of Hunter Biden’s alleged laptop, combined with established concerns about Giuliani as a reliable source and his desire for unvetted publication, led the network’s news division to pass."​

Fox News Reported on the story in the latter weeks of October. As did multiple other sources. Those claiming "Russian disinformation" were spreading "Democratic Party disinformation"....

Same as they threw at Tulsi Gabbard.

Same as they threw at Trump.

​

 

[Say it aint so]

You don't recall that letter?



You believe the bogus letter, the washed up musicians, and the ridiculous supercut of Rogan happening in the space of about a month was coincidence?

Look you can bask in your Joe Rogan rabbit hole all you wish. That isn't compelling enough to make me enact one eye roll.

Fox News Reported on the story in the latter weeks of October. As did multiple other sources. Those claiming "Russian disinformation" were spreading "Democratic Party disinformation"....

Really, Fox News in latter weeks? Well the NYTimes and the WaPo reported on it one week later. Twitter paused it for one to two whole days. Moreover, I still have not heard what is so damning on the laptop. Maybe since this has gotten you in such a tizzy, you can explain what the hubbub is about and why it's bad for the current Prez?