How to walk in the Spirit.

[Clare73]

God's Grace is God's Blood.

Looks like you did write your own Bible. . .

God's grace is God's favor.
Words have meaning. The Bible uses the word "grace" because of it's meaning--"favor".

Cross is the revelation of God's reconciliation. John 3:16

The cross is God's reconciliation (Ephesians 2:16).
That's not the same thing.

Salvation is offered by God's mercy, and never is it attained by self effort, that includes lifestyle, law keeping, or commandment keeping.

Actually, salvation from God's wrath (Romans 5:9) and condemnation of all mankind (Romans 5:18) was earned by Jesus' payment of the debt for our sin.

The mercy lies in God himself paying our debt to his own justice.

These distinctions are important in right understanding and application of doctrine.

 

[Clare73]

Paul's "gospel" and mine, is that Christ died for you sin, was buried, and rose again.
THat's the gospel.
That is John 14:6
That's "the preaching of the Cross".
A person hear's this "gospel", and "faith comes by hearing".
That FAITH, is repenting from unbelief, TO Belief in Christ.
God sees this FAITH, in a person's heart, as ""God knows the thought and intents of the heart".

He accepts this Faith, to then APPLY the BLood of Jesus,, which deals with all sin committed by this person. That is John 3:16
This renders them, "made righteous", and then God causes them to be born again by Spiritual NEW BIRTH. or as Jesus said....."you must be born again"..

That's Paul's doctrine of "justification by faith".
That's what i teach.

The only thing to change above would be the place of the new birth; i.e., the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Nothing spiritual can take place in those without the Spirit (unregenerate, not born again).

"The man without the Spirit (unregenerate, not born again) does not receive the things that come from the Spirit of God, for he cannot understand them, they are foolishness to him"
(1 Corinthians 2:14), and he wants no part of them.

The unregenerate man does not have ears that can hear, eyes that can even see, nor a heart that can believe without the Holy Spirit through rebirth (John 3:5).
So rebirth must come first.

 

[Clare73]

Paul’s doctrine of justification is that we’re really made just. And that then we must walk in it. So, again, with understanding of Gods nature and will for man
we should all finally agree,
“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.”

That's not in the word of God written. . .why "should all finally agree?"

What is in the word of God written is what Jesus said: judgment is based on true faith in him--those without it are condemned, those with it are not condemned (John 3:18).

 

[Clare73]

To be made Just, is to be made righteousness.
This happens by being born again as "the righteousness of God In Christ".

Paul says it happen by faith: We are justified by faith apart from works (Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28, Romans 4:5)

 

[Ligurian]

God's Grace is God's Blood.
The Cross is the revelation of God's reconciliation. John 3:16
Salvation is offered by God's mercy, and never is it attained by self effort, that includes lifestyle, law keeping, or commandment keeping.
All who go to the Cross , repenting of unbelief, are washed in the Blood of Jesus, and have God's reconciliation. "Justification by faith".
This is the "Gift of Salvation".
John 14:6

From the Kingdom Gospel standpoint, the flesh and blood of Jesus are His words and His life's work. Jesus used the the bread and wine as metaphors and ratified the covenant He was giving to the men His Father gave to Him; by accepting these tokens, the 11 signed onto this covenant, and later agreed to take this Gospel to the nations where the lost sheep of the house of Israel had been scattered, Matthew 28:19-20. The message to the circumcision never changed.

The reason Jesus died is all the way back in Genesis, where the seed of the woman crushes the serpent's head. When Jesus Resurrected, He defeated Death and the serpent... which seem to be one and the same. This is that Death riding the pale horse of Revelation.

From the Kingdom Gospel standpoint, Peter's Gospel tells us to repent and believe the Kingdom Gospel. This is the same thing John the baptizer had done minus the Gospel itself... and since there was no unbelief of which to repent, the doctrine of repentence was telling the circumcision to change their minds back to when they believed what Moses had been given by God at Sinai. And of course we all know that Jesus says the Law will stand until Heaven and Earth pass away, i.o.w., the millennium. Jesus also tells the lost sheep of the house of Israel that His words will never pass away.

Two different gospels for two different people... shouldn't be hard to understand if you'd read one separate from the other... and then read the other. That's how it worked for me. I'd read nothing but Paul for years, until I could argue with the best of them... you're not even in the ballpark, sorry. And then I set Paul aside and read nothing but Matthew and John. I want the truth, and was willing to go for it, no matter what other people told me it would cost... including salvation--that's how bold those jurors were. But I have come to believe it's not one gospel, period. Because Jesus says He came only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel... from there, He chose His 11 from Galilee. And He sent them to the same people He came unto. And since Jesus' words never pass away, we know that's where Jesus sent them in Matthew 28:16-20.

And apparently Paul went to everyone else including the southern half of the divided kingdom... which people notice and think that the Jews means the whole family of Jacob, which it doesn't since the kingdom is still divided today. In fact, technically... since Isaiah 65 and Jeremiah 19 both say Judah is broken and cannot be mended, which Jesus affirms in Matthew 21:33-44 when He says the Kingdom is taken from them and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof... this is where Judah will get its people who sought God but weren't called by His name. Because it's not Israel of the north that gets replaced (they are still called by His name), it's Judah of the south... which will be replaced by the people called by another name, so Paul's right when he calls you spiritual Jews... but you're wrong in thinking that spiritual Israel includes the 10-tribes-called-Israel.

Am I making any sense to you, or am I expecting you to know the background material to these thoughts of mine?

 

[fhansen]

That's not in the word of God written. . .why "should all finally agree?"

What is in the word of God written is what Jesus said: judgment is based on true faith in him--those without it are condemned, those with it are not condemned (John 3:18).

Oh, it says a lot more than that. It says we must forgive others their sins, it says we must do good, it says we must be holy, it says we must obey the Commandments, it says we must remain in Christ, it says we must put to death the deeds of the flesh, it says we must be righteous. And a lot more. And every one of those is fulfilled by love.

And so the church, in the east and west, having received the gospel from the beginning before a word of the New Testament was written, and taking all of scripture into account, can wisely teach that, yes, we'll most certainly be judged on our love. And we're given the Spirit who pours out that love into our hearts in order that we might do just that. Love defines man's righteousness.

 

[Ligurian]

Paul says it happen by faith: We are justified by faith apart from works (Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28, Romans 4:5)

Exactly. Paul never uses the words born again. If he does, I've never found it.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Clare73]

Oh, it says a lot more than that.

In my Bible, Jesus linked condemnation to unbelief and non-condemnation to belief in him
(John 3:18).

 

[Clare73]

Exactly. Paul never uses the words born again. If he does, I've never found it.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I assume he is linking faith to being born again.

 

[fhansen]

In my Bible, Jesus linked condemnation to unbelief and non-condemnation to belief in him

(John 3:18).

In mine He also said obedience of the commandments gained eternal life, and that the Father wouldn’t forgive those who didn't forgive others, that our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, and that we must pick up our cross and follow Him daily. So it doesn't end with faith; it begins there, in the communion that faith establishes, a relationship that produces, motivates, and sustains us in righteousness as long as we remain in Him-that sustains us in the love that only He can give and that fulfills those acts by its nature.

 

[Clare73]

In mine He also said obedience of the commandments gained eternal life, and that the Father wouldn’t forgive those who didn't forgive others, that our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, and that we must pick up our cross and follow Him daily. So it doesn't end with faith; it begins there, in the communion that faith establishes, a relationship that produces, motivates, and sustains us in righteousness as long as we remain in Him-that sustains us in the love that only He can give and that fulfills those acts by its nature.

True faith which saves encompasses all those things, or it's not true faith which saves not by works
so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:9), for salvation is all of the Lord! (Revelation 7:10).

 

[fhansen]

True faith which saves encompasses all those things, or it's not true faith which saves not by works
so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:9), for salvation is all of the Lord! (Revelation 7:10).

No, "true faith" doesn't necessarily do those things. It certainly opens the door to doing them, however, as it opens the door to God.

"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2

"And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the most important of these is love." 1 Cor 13:13

"The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6

"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing." St Augustine

Love is what accomplishes such things, and love is what saves us: Love begetting love. Love fulfills the law, not faith.

 

[Clare73]

No, "true faith" doesn't necessarily do those things.

True faith obeys, or it is not true faith, it is counterfeit faith, which does not save.

 

[fhansen]

True faith obeys, or it is not true faith, it is counterfeit faith, which does not save.

No, faith can't motivate that kind of obedience, those kinds of acts-it just isn't the right virtue for that. Love motivates them, and love is the epitome of man's justice or righteousness which is why the greatest commandments say, 'Thou shall love', not Thou shall believe', important as faith is. St Basil of Caesarea had it right:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."

 

[Clare73]

No, faith can't motivate that kind of obedience, those kinds of acts-it just isn't the right virtue for that.

Then, podna', ("partner" in TX lingo) you don't know what saving faith is.
Saving faith loves. . .how could it not?

 

[fhansen]

Then, podna', ("partner" in TX lingo) you don't know what saving faith is.
Saving faith loves. . .how could it not?

Cuz, vaquera, it just plain don't. Hain't the same thangs. (hybrid okie lingo).

It's kind of like this: if I see a person in need my heart doesn't burn with faith, but with compassion, hopefully.

 

[Clare73]

Cuz, vaquera, it just plain don't. Hain't the same thangs. (hybrid okie lingo).

It's kind of like this: if I see a person in need my heart doesn't burn with faith, but with compassion, hopefully.

Yep, and that compassion plus $l.50 will get you a cup o' coffee.

'Cause lots of unbelievers hearts burn with compassion for a person in need, but it don't save 'em.

Long time since I heard "thang". . .love it!

 

[Ligurian]

I assume he is linking faith to being born again.

But again, that depends upon whether he's strictly following the doctrines of Paul's uncircumcision or surreptitiously borrowing from Peter's (et al) circumcision doctrine.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

What Paul calls a bad thing /\, Jesus calls life itself \/:

Matthew 7:24-25 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Can't seriously have it both ways. It's either faith apart from works, or it's the Kingdom Gospel to the circumcision... see Galatians 2:7-9.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The uncircumcision calls these verses legalism... which it would be if they tried to keep "the gospel of grace apart from works" AND "the Kingdom Gospel". The people who try to straddle both gospels are inadvertently damaging both gospels at the same time. Which is why this thread... is what it is.

 

[Clare73]

But again, that depends upon whether he's strictly following the doctrines of Paul's uncircumcision or surreptitiously borrowing from Peter's (et al) circumcision doctrine.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but
the doers of the law shall be justified.
What Paul calls a bad thing /\, Jesus calls life itself \/:
Matthew 7:24-25 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Which doesn't state anything about belief delivering one from God's condemantion (John 3:18);
i.e., salvation.

But Paul, having received his revelation from Jesus Christ personally, gives the full NT revelation concering the law which could not be given by Jesus before the New Covenant; and that revelation is: no one can keep the law to righteousness.

'What Paul calls a bad thing" is not Paul calling law keeping a bad thing.
In context (2:1-3:8), Romans 2:13 is demonstrating the unrighteousness of the Jews, because only those who obey the law as required ("to break one is to break them all"--James 2:10) shall be justified, which no one can do, so Paul concludes: "All who rely on the law are under a curse," (Galatians 3:10) for not obeying it perfectly.

It's not both different ways. . .it's one and the same way for both, the circumcision and the uncircumcision.

Can't seriously have it both ways. It's either faith apart from works, or it's the Kingdom Gospel to the circumcision... see Galatians 2:7-9.

There is no circumcision doctrine of Peter.
Galatians 2:7-9 does not state that Peter and Paul had different gospels (gads!),
it states they had different audiences!

Any gospel other than Paul preached is ANATHEMA! (Galatians 1:6-9)

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The uncircumcision calls these verses legalism... which it would be if they tried to keep "the gospel of grace apart from works" AND "the Kingdom Gospel". The people who try to straddle both gospels are inadvertently damaging both gospels at the same time. Which is why this thread... is what it is.

Are you serious?

Are you saying there are two gospels?

ANATHEMA!

 

[Guojing]

Let me spell it out for you: Galatians 2:7-9
Therefore, you follow the gospel of grace for the gentiles.
I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of God for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
___________________
Peter translated by Mark 1:14-15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the Gospel.

Matthew 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Interesting, you are probably the first I encountered who recognized that there are 2 gospels in Galatians 2:7-9 but also declare "I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of God for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Why do you want to be under the gospel of the kingdom?