How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

[YahuahSaves]

And many claim holy spirit- help but
the True readings are quite various.

What do you mean by that? Is that more sarcasm or is it a genuine response?

 

[Astrid]

What do you mean by that? Is that more sarcasm or is it a genuine response?

No sarcasm.

If a rephrasing helps, let's see...
We are told that God helps certain people
to understanding of Bible verses, gives
special access to arcane knowledge denied to
others.

I've heard a number of people claim they get
this help, but they don't report the same results.
Consequently I don't believe any of them.

For me, looking at the book, I see a compilation
of folk wisdom, some genealogy, some poetry,
some semi historical accounts often mixed with
magic realism, some good advice, some bad advice,
some things that very obscure.

The flood account is written in simple words
that don't seem to need a lot of interesting, to me
anyway.

How does it seem to you? History or some
metaphor?

There was no flood, which is why I said the
Bible plainly says things that are not so.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I said clearly, not plainly. The Holy Spirit changes the interpretation of scripture from the face value that a lot of people take it as.

I'd be careful with that premise, Pipp.

 

[Astrid]

I'd be careful with that premise, Pipp.

Prease exprain

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Prease exprain

Without elaborating, it's this very issue that plays into the application of one of those "big academic words" that, apparently, so many people seem to be afraid of these days---Christians especially! (Probably because they don't think they have to be accountable for their interpretations or the application of those interpretations.)

The core problem that pours over into modern praxis boils down to the following: because Christians read their New Testaments and they see the writers use bits and pieces of the Old Testament in what seem to be "wonky ways," lots of Christians also seem to think they have the same license to do so as well.

Of course, Estrid, being that you're educated and not a Christian, you probably aren't prone to making this kind of mistake.

 

[rockytopva]

I have thought that the James Webb Space Telescope is going to change a lot of creation views from a scientific standpoint.

 

[Astrid]

Without elaborating, it's this very issue that plays into the application of one of those "big academic words" that, apparently, so many people seem to be afraid of these days---Christians especially! (Probably because they don't think they have to be accountable for their interpretations or the application of those interpretations.)

The core problem that pours over into modern praxis boils down to the following: because Christians read their New Testaments and they see the writers use bits and pieces of the Old Testament in what seem to be "wonky ways," lots of Christians also seem think to they have the same license to do so as well.

Of course, Estrid, being that you're educated and not a Christian, you probably aren't prone to making this kind of mistake.

What does that have to do with the holy spirit
helping people to figure what it means?

I do, BTW, often enough find myself up and
talking to people in the USA in what my
time zone says is the middle of the night.

And a lot of said people habitually talk in
American business jargon.

There's no big words involved, but it is very
annoying and certainly interferes with clear
communication.

" international english" does not use idioms or
jargon.

I like to talk geology, which has its own specialized
vocabulary, terms that lack meaning to those not
accustomed to their use.
If I were talking to a doctor, say, who has enough
"big words" to choke a python, I would use plain
English to describe geology.

I am not "afraid" of your so- called big words,
and I doubt anyone else is.

What you do with your jargon is not very
espectful to your readers
as the dedicated paragraph you led off with,
sneering at those benighted who are scared
of your powerful vocabulary makes the contempt
plain enough for all.

And, when you are done flaunting, often as not
you've said nothing.

As it your total non response to my request
for an explanation of your cryptic warning.

 

[Astrid]

I have thought that the James Webb Space Telescope is going to change a lot of creation views from a scientific standpoint.

As if data ever accomplished that

 

[YahuahSaves]

We are told that God helps certain people
to understanding of Bible verses, gives
special access to arcane knowledge denied to
others.

No it's often said one has to be born of the spirit (born again) for scripture to have revelation as it's only God that can truly do this. Similarly, like everything else mentioned in scripture. The only people that do not have the ability to read scripture beyond surface level are those of us not born again. However, God can lead us to scriptures to answer questions relating to our personal journeys.

I've heard a number of people claim they get
this help, but they don't report the same results.
Consequently I don't believe any of them.

Often bible studies in many churches centre around reading scripture and getting people's opinions on what it means to them and how they can apply the lessons to their own lives.

How does it seem to you? History or some
metaphor?

A bit of both. I see it more like a study on human behaviour patterns and the fact that history repeats itself. Humans can't rule adequately no matter how much they try.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What does that have to do with the holy spirit
helping people to figure what it means?

I do, BTW, often enough find myself up and
talking to people in the USA in what my
time zone says is the middle of the night.

And a lot of said people habitually talk in
American business jargon.

There's no big words involved, but it is very
annoying and certainly interferes with clear
communication.

" international english" does not use idioms or
jargon.

I like to talk geology, which has its own specialized
vocabulary, terms that lack meaning to those not
accustomed to their use.
If I were talking to a doctor, say, who has enough
"big words" to choke a python, I would use plain
English to describe geology.

I am not "afraid" of your so- called big words,
and I doubt anyone else is.

What you do with your jargon is not very
espectful to your readers
as the dedicated paragraph you led off with,
sneering at those benighted who are scared
of your powerful vocabulary makes the contempt
plain enough for all.

And, when you are done flaunting, often as not
you've said nothing.

As it your total non response to my request
for an explanation of your cryptic warning.

Actually, I wasn't trying to be snarky to you in that previous post. I was paying you a compliment while explaining the problem, and I did that because I thought it may apply.

Don't make me have to reconsider that compliment, Estrid!

(Although, I will say that your post has me seriously reconsidering the use of any kind of wit or humor whatsoever since it seems that folks tend to ... ... ...)

 

[Astrid]

No it's often said one has to be born of the spirit (born again) for scripture to have revelation as it's only God that can truly do this. Similarly, like everything else mentioned in scripture. The only people that do not have the ability to read scripture beyond surface level are those of us not born again. However, God can lead us to scriptures to answer questions relating to our personal journeys.


Often bible studies in many churches centre around reading scripture and getting people's opinions on what it means to them and how they can apply the lessons to their own lives.


A bit of both. I see it more like a study on human behaviour patterns and the fact that history repeats itself. Humans can't rule adequately no matter how much they try.

Your way of describing "divine guidance" is
exxentially pointing to distinctions without a
difference.

And I certainly have had people tell me that god
tells the right meanings.

The flood story is a good example of various true
God- inspired true meaning.

40% of Americans think every word is literal
history.

You evidently think it's something else.

Others go for the " hydroplate theory" or
pure metaphor.

How do you account for God telling people such
contradictory things?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What does that have to do with the holy spirit
helping people to figure what it means?

What it implies is that the "Holy Spirit" probably isn't actualy involved all that much in the interpretation that Christians do....at least not after the 1st century (A.D.) anyway.

But they all sure do like to claim that He is (...usually by citing and interpreting certain favored verses that they then circularly use to support the notion.)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What does that have to do with the holy spirit
helping people to figure what it means?

I do, BTW, often enough find myself up and
talking to people in the USA in what my
time zone says is the middle of the night.

And a lot of said people habitually talk in
American business jargon.

There's no big words involved, but it is very
annoying and certainly interferes with clear
communication.

" international english" does not use idioms or
jargon.

I like to talk geology, which has its own specialized
vocabulary, terms that lack meaning to those not
accustomed to their use.
If I were talking to a doctor, say, who has enough
"big words" to choke a python, I would use plain
English to describe geology.

I am not "afraid" of your so- called big words,
and I doubt anyone else is.

What you do with your jargon is not very
espectful to your readers
as the dedicated paragraph you led off with,
sneering at those benighted who are scared
of your powerful vocabulary makes the contempt
plain enough for all.

And, when you are done flaunting, often as not
you've said nothing.

As it your total non response to my request
for an explanation of your cryptic warning.

... and what "cryptic warning" are you referring to?

 

[Astrid]

Actually, I wasn't trying to be snarky to you in that previous post. I was paying you a compliment while explaining the problem, and I did that because I thought it may apply.

Don't make me have to reconsider that compliment, Estrid!

(Although, I will say that your post has me seriously reconsidering the use of any kind of wit or humor whatsoever since it seems that folks tend to ... ... ...)

Snark? I didn't remotely suggest that.
I said you are disrespectful.

I don't need a "compliment" that ive some education.

Use of obscure jargon is far from witty or humorous.

 

[Astrid]

What it implies is that the "Holy Spirit" probably isn't actualy involved all that much in the interpretation that Christians do....at least not after the 1st century (A.D.) anyway.

But they all sure do like to claim that He is (...usually by citing and interpreting certain favored verses that they then circularly use to support the notion.)

An example of a straightforward
jarg- free response. Tnx.

 

[Astrid]

... and what "cryptic warning" are you referring to?

" I'd be careful... "

 

[YahuahSaves]

Your way of describing "divine guidance" is
exxentially pointing to distinctions without a
difference.

And I certainly have had people tell me that god
tells the right meanings.

The flood story is a good example of various true
God- inspired true meaning.

40% of Americans think every word is literal
history.

You evidently think it's something else.

Others go for the " hydroplate theory" or
pure metaphor.

How do you account for God telling people such
contradictory things?

The difference is the Holy Spirit (being born again) when it comes to guidance and discernment, both scripturally and with things such as the gifts.

I'm fairly early in my walk (1 year) and I have religious trauma in my background, so my journey back to the God of the bible has not been an easy one. I've had dreams and visions in the past 5 years leading up to coming to Christ and so reconciling those things with scripture has been what I've been focusing on.

I have views that many here would deem inaccurate or controversial (theologically speaking), because they seem to like to argue the details to the death, when I just came to this site hoping to seek answers and hopefully people who "get it", to which I've only found a precious few so far.

God works within us to sanctify and conform us to the image of Christ. How he does this for each person in the body, I couldn't tell you.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Snark? I didn't remotely suggest that.
I said you are disrespectful.

I don't need a "compliment" that ive some education.

Use of obscure jargon is far from witty or humorous.

Ok, Estrid. How would you like for me to communicate, then?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

" I'd be careful... "

What? That was posted to Pipp, not to you.

 

[YahuahSaves]

What? That was posted to Pipp, not to you.

Yes I realised that but she didn't.

I would be careful to pick a side.

"Philosophical" Christian. What exactly does that mean anyway?