How Old Is The Earth

[Diamond72]

The commandments were given to show men that we can not keep them and we stand condemned, before the Lod.

Paul teaches that while the law is good, it is not sufficient for righteousness before God. Instead, he emphasizes that faith in Jesus Christ is what justifies us. For instance, Romans 3:28 says, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." He further explains in Galatians 2:16 that "a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ."

Paul's message is that the law reveals our need for grace, and faith in Christ completes what the law cannot.

In Romans Paul is quoting David. He says: "It is written" so we need to go back and look at what David says.

 

[Dan1988]

The Book of Revelation, particularly in chapters 1-3, describes seven churches, each represented by a lampstand, and each with its own angel (or messenger). Here's a brief overview:

1. Ephesus: The church that abandoned its first love.
2. Smyrna: The persecuted church.
3. Pergamum: The church that needed to repent.
4. Thyatira: The church with false prophets.
5. Sardis: The dead church.
6. Philadelphia: The faithful church.
7. Laodicea: The lukewarm church.

I have seen church's that seem to be a combination of two of the seven. I have never seen a church that is not one of these seven churches as there are ONLY seven lampstands. People do claim there are dead churches out there. They would not be a light to the world if that were true.

Those 7 Churches were mentioned 2000 years ago, may I remind you that we are in 2024 now and we actually have 47,300 Christian Denominations. I know it makes your denomination seem small and insignificant and irrelevant in our modern age, but that's the cold harsh reality of it.

47,000 And Growing​

According to the Center for Study of Global Christianity, in mid-2023 there are 47,300 Christian denominations/rites. By 2025, it is predicted that there will be 49,000; and in 2050, 64,000. The percentage growth of denominations is higher or equal to the percentage of growth of the Christian population and growth of congregations since 1900. Globally the largest Protestant/Independent congregations, and fastest growing mega-denominations, are located in Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

I wish there were only 7 denominations, that would mean most Christians are united. But as it stands the Church is bitterly divide into 47,300 denominations. Don't forget the Christian wars of the 1500's when tens of thousands of Christians brutally slaughtered each other, after Martin Luther protested against Romanism.
The Church has continued to disintegrate into ever more breakaway denominations and it's set to continue disintegrating into the future.

 

[Diamond72]

Those 7 Churches were mentioned 2000 years ago

The early church was instructed to spread the gospel to all nations. Matthew 28:19-20 captures this command from Jesus, known as the Great Commission:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

This directive has been a foundational mission for Christians throughout history.

The Spanish conquistadors brought Catholicism to Mexico. They saw it as their duty to convert the indigenous population to their faith1. This led to the widespread establishment of churches and monasteries throughout the country, profoundly transforming the spiritual landscape of Mexico.

Some say they came with a Bible and left with their gold.

The Spanish conquistadors brought Catholicism to the Philippines1. Starting with the arrival of Ferdinand Magellan in 1521, Spanish missionaries played a crucial role in spreading Catholicism throughout the archipelago. The Spanish colonial period (1565-1898) saw Catholicism become deeply embedded in Filipino culture and identity. Today, around 80% of the population in the Philippines identifies as Catholic

 

[Dan1988]

Paul teaches that while the law is good, it is not sufficient for righteousness before God. Instead, he emphasizes that faith in Jesus Christ is what justifies us. For instance, Romans 3:28 says, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." He further explains in Galatians 2:16 that "a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ."

Paul's message is that the law reveals our need for grace, and faith in Christ completes what the law cannot.

In Romans Paul is quoting David. He says: "It is written" so we need to go back and look at what David says.

You're on the right track here and I almost agree with everything you pointed out above. I would like to add that Paul knew that the law was not sufficient to save us, because God looks at the heart. So, even our best works are as filthy rags in Gods sight, because He can see we do those works reluctantly, in order to win His favor and get a reward.

Yes, Paul emphasizes the importance faith, but we need to keep in mind that faith is a gift from God, we're not born with the ability to have faith in Christ. God gives His children the gift of faith to keep us on the narrow path, if He left us to endure the race by ourselves, nobody would finish the race and claim the prize.

Paul exhorts us to place our faith in Christ and to keep the commandments, and we do our best to obey the gospel message but we still fall short because we haven't received our perfect, immortal, glorified, sinless bodies yet. We will receive that in the life to come, but until then we must wrestle against the three enemies (Self, Satan and the world). We must put on the whole armor of God everyday, and fight the good fight. We may lose many battles but we won't lose the war.

 

[Diamond72]

Paul knew that the law was not sufficient to save us

David’s words from Psalms reveal a deep understanding that God values true repentance and a contrite heart over mere ritualistic sacrifices. Paul's teachings build on this by emphasizing that physical rituals like circumcision are secondary to the spiritual transformation of the heart and obedience to God's commands. This continuity between the Old Testament and the New Testament beautifully underscores the importance of inner faith and genuine commitment to God.

 

[Dan1988]

The early church was instructed to spread the gospel to all nations. Matthew 28:19-20 captures this command from Jesus, known as the Great Commission:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

This directive has been a foundational mission for Christians throughout history.

The Spanish conquistadors brought Catholicism to Mexico. They saw it as their duty to convert the indigenous population to their faith1. This led to the widespread establishment of churches and monasteries throughout the country, profoundly transforming the spiritual landscape of Mexico.

Some say they came with a Bible and left with their gold.

The Spanish conquistadors brought Catholicism to the Philippines1. Starting with the arrival of Ferdinand Magellan in 1521, Spanish missionaries played a crucial role in spreading Catholicism throughout the archipelago. The Spanish colonial period (1565-1898) saw Catholicism become deeply embedded in Filipino culture and identity. Today, around 80% of the population in the Philippines identifies as Catholic

There was only One (non denominational) Christian Church, when Jesus gave His Apostles the "great commission" in Matthew 28:19-20
The commission was to simply go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to everyone. All of the Apostles understood the gospel message, because their lives were changed by the gospel so they had a true and living testimony to share with everyone.

Todays 47,300 Christian Denominations don't have that testimony to share with the world, because they departed from the original gospel message. The reason being, they couldn't sell the original gospel message as a consumer product and make lots of money. So they decided to invent their own gospel, by mixing some truth and lies together and creating a gospel which could be used to deceive people into thinking that they poses the truth and there is no salvation in the other denominations.

The Roman Catholic Denomination, began selling indulgences in the 1400's and Pope Leo the 10th created a menu listing all the sins and how much it costs to purchase absolution for each of the sins This scheme proved to be extremely profitable and the scheme is still utilized by the Roman Catholic Church to this day.

All the other 47,299 Denominations have the same motive for breaking away from the One Apostolic Church. It always comes back to the love of money (mammon), which is the root of every kind of evil. Most Christians stay in whatever denomination they are born into, they are taught that their denomination is the only true Christian denomination and the others are all apostate Churches. And most never bother to put them to the test, to see if they really are preaching the true gospel.

So it's one thing to say, we should be preaching the gospel to the whole world, but is it the true gospel or is it one of the man made gospels which can't save anyone.

 

[Dan1988]

David’s words from Psalms reveal a deep understanding that God values true repentance and a contrite heart over mere ritualistic sacrifices. Paul's teachings build on this by emphasizing that physical rituals like circumcision are secondary to the spiritual transformation of the heart and obedience to God's commands. This continuity between the Old Testament and the New Testament beautifully underscores the importance of inner faith and genuine commitment to God.

Bingo, David is a perfect example of a believer being overcome by temptation. We know that he was a murderer and adulterer, and it took David over a year to finally repent of his murder and adultery.
I believe that God gave him the gift of repentance, because most murderers and adulterers never come to repentance, they only get worse and sink into ever greater depravity.

Everyone is born with a sin nature, so we sin because we are natural born sinners and not because we fell in with a bad crowd, as many mothers tell judges when their son is charged with murder. Only God knows why He grants some sinners the gift of grace, faith and repentance, while He leaves others in their sin.

There are two different revelations given by God, the first "general revelation" is given to all of mankind. This revelation is where God reveals Himself through the things He created, so everyone is without excuse. Everyone knows God exists because the evidence screams at them when they look in the mirror and see their eyes, ears and nose. These things will testify against them on judgement day, because everybody knows these things didn't come into existence without a creator.

The other distinct revelation is "Special Revelation", this revelation is the gospel message, which is only received by those who God first regenerates. Because the gospel message is foolishness, to those who are perishing, (those who God leaves in their sin).
So the revelation that the gospel is the power onto salvation, is only believed by those whom God prepares beforehand to believe it. Believers are the good soil which the gardener prepared to receive the seed prior to planting it. The gospel can not be understood by looking at it through a microscope, so even if your IQ score is 250 it doesn't help you believe the gospel and be saved.

 

[Diamond72]

Everyone is born with a sin nature

I am not so sure about that. What scripture are you using?

The problem we have is with Joseph Smith and Calvin when they claim that God wanted Adam and Eve to sin and planed that from the beginning of creation. That is nonsense. God is restoring us to what He declared from the beginning. That is what redemption is.

 

[Dan1988]

I am not so sure about that. What scripture are you using?

The problem we have is with Joseph Smith and Calvin when they claim that God wanted Adam and Eve to sin and planed that from the beginning of creation. That is nonsense. God is restoring us to what He declared from the beginning. That is what redemption is.

I'm not interested in the opinions of Joseph Smith or John Calvin. God's Word states, "let God be true and every man a liar", so if anyone preaches a different gospel, let him be an anathema.

I'm not sure who taught you theology but they obviously failed to teach you the doctrines of original sin and total depravity of all mankind.

Scripture says that we are born sinners and that we are by nature sinners

Psalm 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.”

Ephesians 2:3 also establishes this, saying that we are all “by nature children of wrath.” If we are all “by nature children of wrath,” it can only be because we are all by nature sinners.

Genesis 8:21 declares, “. . . the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth.”

Jeremiah 17:9 says that “the heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?” This seems to assume original sin — wickedness is a property of the human heart.

Ecclesiastes 9:3 declares a similar truth: “. . . the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts through their lives.” Again, the human heart is sinful, and therefore all humans are sinful.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.

I don't know how many scriptures it would take to convince you, but I fear you may have already made up your mind so you're willing to reject all of them so I won't list anymore.

Your last point is not supported by any scripture either, if God prepared the redemption of His Elect from the beginning. Then He knew Adam would sin.
So your idea that God was taken by surprise is false. The Bible clearly states that God predetermined the whole of human history from the begging to the end and that nothing can happen outside of His will.

 

[Diamond72]

I'm not sure who taught you theology but they obviously failed to teach you the doctrines of original sin and total depravity of all mankind.

I was taught by the Holy Spirit of God. Who taught you? 1John2:27 "As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you." I mostly study what the words mean and in Hebrew what the individual letters mean. In Bible Collage they teach you to study the context. Hermeneutics is the study and interpretation of biblical texts, aiming to uncover the original meaning and context of the scriptures. It’s a critical tool for theologians and scholars to understand the Bible more deeply.

 

[Diamond72]

Then He knew Adam would sin.

I had a pastor who use to preach that God can choose not to know. God declares the end from the beginning and He watches over His word to perform what He said He will do.

 

[Diamond72]

Scripture says that we are born sinners and that we are by nature sinners

Many passages in the Bible emphasize that humans have the ability to make choices. For example, in Deuteronomy 30:19, it says, "I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." This highlights the importance of choice in following God's ways.

The concept of free will is integral to many Christian teachings, suggesting that while God guides and supports, the decision to follow Him ultimately lies with the individual.

 

[Valletta]

The Roman Catholic Denomination, began selling indulgences in the 1400's and Pope Leo the 10th created a menu listing all the sins and how much it costs to purchase absolution for each of the sins This scheme proved to be extremely profitable and the scheme is still utilized by the Roman Catholic Church to this day.

False. The truth is that the Catholic Church never approved of the sale of indulgences. To knowingly do so would be a sin. Unfortunately one of the acts of charity, giving money to a charitable cause, could be and was abused by individuals. There were various rules put forth by the Church over the centuries to curb abuses. But eventually, much because of the hoax about the Catholic Church "selling " indulgences, the Catholic Church, to prevent the perception of wrongdoing, stopped the granting of indulgences for monetary contributions.

 

[Diamond72]

The truth is that the Catholic Church never approved of the sale of indulgences.

In 1567, Pope Pius V condemned the sale of indulgences and reformed the practice. After after Martin Luther died. The Council of Trent (1545-1563) addressed many of Luther’s concerns by implementing significant reforms but retained core Catholic teachings.

 

[Dan1988]

I was taught by the Holy Spirit of God. Who taught you? 1John2:27 "As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you." I mostly study what the words mean and in Hebrew what the individual letters mean. In Bible Collage they teach you to study the context. Hermeneutics is the study and interpretation of biblical texts, aiming to uncover the original meaning and context of the scriptures. It’s a critical tool for theologians and scholars to understand the Bible more deeply.

Are you sure the Holy spirit is teaching you and not some other Spirit. Jesus said His Holy Spirit would teach you all the things He taught. One of the things He taught was that everyone is born with a fallen sin nature (original sin), so if the Spirit doesn't teach what Christ taught then it's an evil Spirit.

 

[Dan1988]

I had a pastor who use to preach that God can choose not to know. God declares the end from the beginning and He watches over His word to perform what He said He will do.

To suggest that God can choose not to know something, takes away Gods omniscience and brings Him down to the level of a creature. I hope you got away from that pastor.

 

[Dan1988]

Many passages in the Bible emphasize that humans have the ability to make choices. For example, in Deuteronomy 30:19, it says, "I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." This highlights the importance of choice in following God's ways.

The concept of free will is integral to many Christian teachings, suggesting that while God guides and supports, the decision to follow Him ultimately lies with the individual.

If I was to go along with your suggestion, it would mean that God contradicts Himself. Deut 30:19 does not suggest that man has a free will. All it does is separate the sheep from the goats, a sheep's nature is to obey the shepherds voice but a goats nature is to disobey.

You can only do what your nature allows you to do, a wicked man can not be righteous at the same time as being wicked. You can only be one or the other and not both at the same time. A drunkard can not be drunk and sober at the same time, I cannot love you and hate you at the same time. You don't have two natures, you are born with a sin nature and you can't change that anymore than a leopard can change it's spots.

 

[Dan1988]

False. The truth is that the Catholic Church never approved of the sale of indulgences. To knowingly do so would be a sin. Unfortunately one of the acts of charity, giving money to a charitable cause, could be and was abused by individuals. There were various rules put forth by the Church over the centuries to curb abuses. But eventually, much because of the hoax about the Catholic Church "selling " indulgences, the Catholic Church, to prevent the perception of wrongdoing, stopped the granting of indulgences for monetary contributions.

I should have qualified my statement by adding that indulgences are still sold but they are not called indulgences. I came from a Roman Catholic family, my brother committed suicide, and my family have been paying for mass to be dedicated to my late brother, to get him out of purgatory.

The current price to have a mass dedicated is $70 my family and relatives are very angry with me because I have never paid for a single mass for my brother. They know that I left the Roman Catholic Church to join a Christian Church, but they still expect me to pay for a mass at least once a year on the anniversary o his death.

I see this pressure as blackmail and the Priests make things worse by not supporting my decision to abstain from paying. I see this as selling indulgences in disguise, mine is one example but I'm sure other have had many different experiences with these scammers dressed in robes.

 

[Diamond72]

you are born with a sin nature and you can't change that anymore than a leopard can change it's spots.

The phrase "a leopard can't change its spots" comes from the Bible, specifically Jeremiah 13:23. It means that certain traits or characteristics are innate and cannot be altered. In this context, it's used to convey the idea that human nature, especially when it comes to tendencies toward sin, is unchangeable without divine intervention.

It's a vivid way to express the challenge of overcoming deep-seated habits or traits.

 

[David Lamb]

The phrase "a leopard can't change its spots" comes from the Bible, specifically Jeremiah 13:23. It means that certain traits or characteristics are innate and cannot be altered. In this context, it's used to convey the idea that human nature, especially when it comes to tendencies toward sin, is unchangeable without divine intervention.

It's a vivid way to express the challenge of overcoming deep-seated habits or traits.

Yes, that puts into sharp focus the task that Jesus Christ has done in saving sinners. Hallelujah! What a Saviour!