How Old Is The Earth

[BNR32FAN]

Hi
Why not jest believe Gods word which says

John 6:18-21 ESV
[18] The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. [19] When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. [20] But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” [21] Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.

John 6:18-21 The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. But he said | English Standard Version Revision

The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. But he said

bible.com

How one can make a discussion out of this is beyond me all it dose is spread misinformation about Gods word a very unchristian pastime.

Love and Peace
Dave

Some people just can’t be reasoned with.

 

[Dan1988]

If A leads to B, and B leads to C, then A must lead to C. If God is not a sinner than He does not break the law.

Look at the miracle when Jesus multiplied the fish and the loaves of bread. This LOOKS like it violates the first law of Thermodynamics.

Many scientist-theologians reasoned that God could act at the quantum level to accomplish his purposes and that such divine action would not violate any laws of nature.

Albert Einstein had significant reservations about quantum physics. He famously disagreed with the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, encapsulated in his quote, "God does not play dice with the universe." Einstein believed in a deterministic universe where outcomes could be precisely predicted, whereas quantum mechanics relies on probabilities and uncertainties.

Now you're trying to mix pseudo science theories with the Bible. The Bible doesn't play with theories, it only deals with facts, whereas secular science is based on unproven theories which are constantly changing and trashing yesterdays theories for todays ideas but there are never any absolutes in it.
That's why I stick with proven facts, and leave those everchanging theories to those who don't know any better.

 

[Dan1988]

You must have a different bible to me. My bible teaches that Jesus Christ is eternal, and was not created, whether by Himself or by anybody else. Where in the bible do you think we are told that Jesus Christ created Himself?

The man Jesus Christ never existed until He knitted Himself in Mary's womb. Are you suggesting that the man Jesu Christ existed eternally and somehow disassembled His body to enter Mary's womb and then reassemble inside her.
I'm sorry your theory doesn't make any sense, the bible never said Jesus disassembled Himself then reassembled Himself in Mary's womb, please show me where the bible says this.

 

[Dan1988]

Why would I break the laws of physics? I did construction work. I had to follow all of laws. Jesus tells us if you build on sand your building is going to fall as soon as a storm comes along. It seem to me that is exactly what you are doing is trying to build your home without first securing your foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:11 says, "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."

There you go again, comparing yourself to Christ. I can assure you that you are nothing like Him, He is not subject to the laws that you are. He knows how to get around them, but we don't because He has hidden the secrets from us. If you jump from a tall building you will be destroyed, but if Christ jumps from the same building He would even get a scratch, so yeah, your not in the same league as Jesus.

 

[Diamond72]

There you go again, comparing yourself to Christ.

What are you talking about? Are you talking about how we are to follow the example that Jesus sets for us to the best of our ability? John 2:6: “he who says he abides in Christ ought to walk in the same way as he walked.

You do know that God does not give YOU the ability to judge ME. You can only judge yourself and project that out on others. Don't worry about me, worry about yourself when the day comes for you to stand before God.

The Bible teaches that judgment ultimately rests with God. Romans 14:10 says, "For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat."

 

[Diamond72]

the bible never said Jesus disassembled Himself

There is nothing to disassemble. Before Mary, Jesus did not have a physical body. From the beginning God wanted to become a part of His creation. That is what the tabernacle is all about. Only God is Holy so we need to be Sanctified and made Holy so we can draw close to God. Then when we are worthy we can go boldly before the Throne of Grace.

Hebrews 4 16
Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

 

[Diamond72]

The Bible doesn't play with theories, it only deals with facts

WRONG, the Bible deals with truth. Science deals with facts. Swing and a miss, nice try though.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old, while the universe is estimated to be around 13.8 billion years old.

There are very slow processes we see in nature that do not fit into any young Earth theory.

Look at the Grand Canyon. Layer after layer that took unimaginable time to deposit. And then erode. the element of time makes it all even more awesome. And that is after the planet formed, after the sun formed. I have been especially intrigued by orbits. All so precise and stable.

 

[Diamond72]

Look at the Grand Canyon. Layer after layer that took unimaginable time to deposit. And then erode.

It did not take the Canyon long to erode. It took a lot of water pressure. This happened when the ice melted from the glaciers. We see the results of an increase in water pressure at the Oroville Dam crisis. The damn could handle low (gradual) water pressure. When high water pressure developed then the dam almost failed.

This was also the reason for Noah's flood. When the ice melted over time the pressure began to build. The Besring

Oroville Dam crisis​

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CBcQjhxqFwoTCOji69DgqokDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CBcQjhxqFwoTCOji69DgqokDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

 

[Dan1988]

What are you talking about? Are you talking about how we are to follow the example that Jesus sets for us to the best of our ability? John 2:6: “he who says he abides in Christ ought to walk in the same way as he walked.

You do know that God does not give YOU the ability to judge ME. You can only judge yourself and project that out on others. Don't worry about me, worry about yourself when the day comes for you to stand before God.

The Bible teaches that judgment ultimately rests with God. Romans 14:10 says, "For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat."

You know it's not possible to walk in the same ways as Christ walked, it's a ridiculous suggestion because it's impossible and you know it.

I don't know that God does not give me the ability to judge you, but I do know that God commands me to judge everyone, in Matt 15:16. So you're dead wrong again as usual, you have never got a single bible doctrine correct yet.

I'm not worried about myself, because I am an Elect Saint of God, so my salvation is guaranteed by God Himself. Only those who God did not elect to save should worry, but us Elect Saints never worry about anything or anyone. We will judge the nations and rule the world.

 

[Dan1988]

There is nothing to disassemble. Before Mary, Jesus did not have a physical body. From the beginning God wanted to become a part of His creation. That is what the tabernacle is all about. Only God is Holy so we need to be Sanctified and made Holy so we can draw close to God. Then when we are worthy we can go boldly before the Throne of Grace.

Hebrews 4 16
Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

There you go again, trying to force Jesus to obey the natural laws, which He created. You can't say that Jesus did not have a physical body before He was born to Mary. I know your logic would dictate that, but thank God He is not bound to obey your logic. He is a mystery and we only know those few things He revealed to us, but the rest remain mysterious.

I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that it's sinful to presume upon the Lord, that is to fill in the mysterious blanks as you keep doing. God has hidden the mysterious this from us, because He doesn't want us to know anything about them. So when you dare to venture into the hidden things, you practice Witchcraft and that's a deadly sin.

There are many examples in the Old Testament of Bible, where Jesus revealed Himself, such as;

Genesis 32:24-30 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh.

As you can see Jacob wrestled with Jesus all night, He couldn't do this without a physical body.

 

[Dan1988]

WRONG, the Bible deals with truth. Science deals with facts. Swing and a miss, nice try though.

Sorry but you're dead wrong as usual, a "theory" is not a fact. A theory is a theory and a fact is a fact, I hope you have the capacity to process this simple fact, but I won't get my hopes up too high as you haven't given me any reason thus far.

So as usual you have turned this truth up side down as well, so the Bible deals with facts and your pseudo science deals with unproven theories, in other words "fantasy". You're welcome to follow people like Charles Darwin and Richard Dawkins, but I'll continue to follow the Lord.

 

[David Lamb]

The man Jesus Christ never existed until He knitted Himself in Mary's womb. Are you suggesting that the man Jesu Christ existed eternally and somehow disassembled His body to enter Mary's womb and then reassemble inside her.
I'm sorry your theory doesn't make any sense, the bible never said Jesus disassembled Himself then reassembled Himself in Mary's womb, please show me where the bible says this.

But Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man. Yes, His manhood had a beginning in Mary's womb, but that wasn't the beginning of His existence. As John wrote of Him:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

Then Jesus Himself said:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (Joh 8:58 NKJV)

No, I don't believe that He "disassembled Himself then reassembled Himself in Mary's womb." But nor do I believe that He only began to exist in Mary's womb.

 

[Diamond72]

You know it's not possible to walk in the same ways as Christ walked, it's a ridiculous suggestion because it's impossible and you know it.

I am just quoting you the Bible. You can interpret the scriptures anyway you want. John Wesley teaches and preaches sinless perfection known as the Holiness movement that is popular in churches.

The call to be holy is found in Leviticus 19:2, where God instructs, "Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy." This emphasizes striving for a life that reflects God's purity and moral integrity.

That is fine if you believe God is calling us to do the "ridiculous" or the "impossible". But the question Wesley asks is what sin are we not able to be set free from? Is there a sin that no one no where has ever been set free from? Is God really asking us to do the impossible as you suggest?

it's widely recognized that Methodist and Holiness churches, such as the United Methodist Church, the Wesleyan Church, and the Church of the Nazarene, are deeply influenced by Wesleyan-Holiness theology

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It did not take the Canyon long to erode. It took a lot of water pressure. This happened when the ice melted from the glaciers. We see the results of an increase in water pressure at the Oroville Dam crisis. The damn could handle low (gradual) water pressure. When high water pressure developed then the dam almost failed.

This was also the reason for Noah's flood. When the ice melted over time the pressure began to build. The Besring

Oroville Dam crisis​

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam_crisis&psig=AOvVaw2BCXpML9NuNj3IFADKezaw&ust=1729987712669000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBcQjhxqFwoTCOji69DgqokDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam_crisis&psig=AOvVaw2BCXpML9NuNj3IFADKezaw&ust=1729987712669000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBcQjhxqFwoTCOji69DgqokDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

Good point, The power of water is actually pretty terrifying.

 

[Diamond72]

Good point, The power of water is actually pretty terrifying.

I use to sell sprinkler systems that the water pressure was very important. I do not know why everyone had a different water pressure but they did. The same sprinkler head could go five feet or 20 feet depending on the pressure.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I use to sell sprinkler systems that the water pressure was very important. I do not know why everyone had a different water pressure but they did. The same sprinkler head could go five feet or 20 feet depending on the pressure.

And significant erosion can happen within hours, minutes even.

 

[Dan1988]

But Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man. Yes, His manhood had a beginning in Mary's womb, but that wasn't the beginning of His existence. As John wrote of Him:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

Then Jesus Himself said:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (Joh 8:58 NKJV)

No, I don't believe that He "disassembled Himself then reassembled Himself in Mary's womb." But nor do I believe that He only began to exist in Mary's womb.

Thank you for confirming that the man Jesus never existed until He was conceived in Mary's womb. I never mentioned Jehovah Jesus, we were discussing Jesus the man. Nobody is disputing that the man Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time, but Jesus the man did not come into existence until He was conceived in Mary's womb.

Jesus is in heaven right now, in the body which He had on earth, complete with the wounds He sustained during His crucifixion. So He is seated at God the Fathers right hand, in the same body of flesh which He had before He ascended to heaven. His flesh never decayed or aged because there is no corruption in Him. our bodies get sick and die and decay in the grave because of our sin.

We need to make the distinction between Jesus the Almighty Jehovah God, and the Man Jesus. He is one Person but He has two natures. He has a God nature and a man nature as well.

 

[Dan1988]

I am just quoting you the Bible. You can interpret the scriptures anyway you want. John Wesley teaches and preaches sinless perfection known as the Holiness movement that is popular in churches.

The call to be holy is found in Leviticus 19:2, where God instructs, "Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy." This emphasizes striving for a life that reflects God's purity and moral integrity.

That is fine if you believe God is calling us to do the "ridiculous" or the "impossible". But the question Wesley asks is what sin are we not able to be set free from? Is there a sin that no one no where has ever been set free from? Is God really asking us to do the impossible as you suggest?

it's widely recognized that Methodist and Holiness churches, such as the United Methodist Church, the Wesleyan Church, and the Church of the Nazarene, are deeply influenced by Wesleyan-Holiness theology

I know you're just quoting the Bible, but you know there are 45,000 Christian denominations, each with their unique way of interpreting the scriptures. I don't believe that I can interpret the scriptures in anyway I want, if i did that then I would be counted among the 45,000 hypocritical denominations who claim they have the only true interpretation, while they claim the rest have it wrong.

Gods Word tells us that the Bible interprets the Bible, not your 45,000 denomination of which the heretical Wesleyan-Holiness Theology is but one of the 45,000. It is written, "let God be true and every man a liar". I notice you quote Wesley, instead of Jesus.

The truth of the matter is God consistently calls His people to do the ridiculously impossible. The Ten Commandments are impossible, no man has ever kept a single one. And every commandment Jesus gave was impossible, as well. The commandments were not given as a condition for salvation. God knows full well that no man can keep any of them, that's why He sent His Son to keep them on behalf of His Elect.

I have broken every single commandment and I still sin every single day, but I thank God Jesus paid for every one of my past, present and future sins. So I will never have to be punished or lose my salvation, because salvation is not mine to lose it belongs to God and He said nobody can pluck me out of His hand.

I'll just cite a couple of verses to confirm that it's impossible for man to keep any of Gods commandments. We see Jesus confirming that it's impossible, when His Disciples herd what it takes to be saved in;

Matthew 19:25-26 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

John 3:4-5 also confirms that it's impossible for man to be born again. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

The commandments were given to show men that we can not keep them and we stand condemned, before the Lord. They are supposed to be a mirror which shows us how sinful we are and how we need the Lord to keep them on our behalf and impute His righteousness onto those who put their trust in Him.
According to Wesley and others, we are saved by our works, but the bible says we are saved by Grace, through faith. Both of these are received as gifts, we don't do anything to earn them.

 

[Diamond72]

there are 45,000 Christian denominations,

The Book of Revelation, particularly in chapters 1-3, describes seven churches, each represented by a lampstand, and each with its own angel (or messenger). Here's a brief overview:

1. Ephesus: The church that abandoned its first love.
2. Smyrna: The persecuted church.
3. Pergamum: The church that needed to repent.
4. Thyatira: The church with false prophets.
5. Sardis: The dead church.
6. Philadelphia: The faithful church.
7. Laodicea: The lukewarm church.

I have seen church's that seem to be a combination of two of the seven. I have never seen a church that is not one of these seven churches as there are ONLY seven lampstands. People do claim there are dead churches out there. They would not be a light to the world if that were true.