How Old Is The Earth

[davetaff]

Explain how thinking that the time since creation is supposed to start in Noah's day rather than at creation week 'proves the existence of God'?

In what way does this apply to the issue of a thousand years being a day and that we are supposedly in the 7th thousand years/day?

I had been replying to someone claiming that a thousand years was really just a day or some such confused concept. Now if your statement is unconnected, fine.

We do not know some things. Such as all the reasons He made man or why it took so long etc. The business of God we need to be concerned with is Jesus.

Hi truthpls you said

Explain how thinking that the time since creation is supposed to start in Noah's day rather than at creation week 'proves the existence of God'

God destroyed everything in the flood except for Noah and everything on the ark and there was no Adam he had died so God began a new creation of mankind in his image that man is Jesus Christ at his second coming and God uses the creation account in Genesis as the basis for that creation.

You said

In what way does this apply to the issue of a thousand years being a day and that we are supposedly in the 7th thousand years/day

The creation God began with Noah and everything on the ark would take 6 days each day 1000 years long ending in Christs millennial reign

You said
I had been replying to someone claiming that a thousand years was really just a day or some such confused concept. Now if your statement is unconnected, fine.

Its not a confused concept it's the word of God not my words

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So why are we told this if its not important but if we apply it to creation it makes perfect sense.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[truthpls]

God destroyed everything in the flood except for Noah and everything on the ark and there was no Adam he had died so God began a new creation of mankind in his image that man is Jesus Christ at his second coming and God uses the creation account in Genesis as the basis for that creation.

No. The people were already there, they just had babies. Man was only created once.

The creation God began with Noah and everything on the ark would take 6 days each day 1000 years long ending in Christs millennial reign

Creation was in Gen 1 and included Adam. Not Noah. Also if you think the math for pretending creation started at the flood works better, it is actually worse. If the flood was in 2350 using Usher's chronology and we add 6000 years, that brings us to 8350! WE are in 2020 AD. If we add the 2350 to this we have 4370. Not 6 or 7000. Sorry.

Its not a confused concept it's the word of God not my words

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So why are we told this if its not important but if we apply it to creation it makes perfect sense.

The context was when the world will be destroyed. That is after the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after He returns. It is also part of what is called the day of the Lord in prophesy. The context in the verse is that this time of 1000 years is not long in the mind and eyes of God. Nothing to do with saying that the thousand years is not a thousand years.

 

[davetaff]

No. The people were already there, they just had babies. Man was only created once.

Creation was in Gen 1 and included Adam. Not Noah. Also if you think the math for pretending creation started at the flood works better, it is actually worse. If the flood was in 2350 using Usher's chronology and we add 6000 years, that brings us to 8350! WE are in 2020 AD. If we add the 2350 to this we have 4370. Not 6 or 7000. Sorry.

The context was when the world will be destroyed. That is after the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after He returns. It is also part of what is called the day of the Lord in prophesy. The context in the verse is that this time of 1000 years is not long in the mind and eyes of God. Nothing to do with saying that the thousand years is not a thousand years.

Hi truthpls
Thank you for your reply you said

No. The people were already there, they just had babies. Man was only created once.

That God created human beings man and woman is not in dispute of course he did but we are not talking of that we are talking of man in the image of God the best example we have is Israel

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt

So Israel is Gods son and as such would be the image of his Father God.

You said

Creation was in Gen 1 and included Adam. Not Noah. Also if you think the math for pretending creation started at the flood works better, it is actually worse. If the flood was in 2350 using Usher's chronology and we add 6000 years, that brings us to 8350! WE are in 2020 AD. If we add the 2350 to this we have 4370. Not 6 or 7000. Sorry.

Who is Usher jest a man I take Gods word over mans word any day

God created everything before the flood that's not in question and it included Adam but everything he created was destroyed in the flood and Adam died so after the flood there was no Adam the first Adam was dead so God set about creating a new Adam who would be Jesus Christ at his second coming with his body of believers the multitude he would present to the Father this is man ( mankind) in the image of God not forgetting

John 5:17 ESV
[17] But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” | English Standard Version Revision 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now

But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

bible.com

So if the Father and Son were still working 2000 years ago when will God rest it will be during Christs millennial reign the 7th day of this creation.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[truthpls]

That God created human beings man and woman is not in dispute of course he did but we are not talking of that we are talking of man in the image of God the best example we have is Israel

? You must mean the worst? Look at that nation today and the genocide. No connection to God.

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt

So Israel is Gods son and as such would be the image of his Father God.

No. Israel (except the saved) are reprobates and rebels and unbelievers. His people are the saved. Period. When Israel gets saved (the few remaining alive) they too will then be God's people.

Who is Usher jest a man I take Gods word over mans word any day

The bishop used that in his work. He also used history such as Solomon etc where it could kick in reliably.

God created everything before the flood that's not in question and it included Adam but everything he created was destroyed in the flood

No. Not the world itself or mankind.

and Adam died so after the flood there was no Adam the first Adam was dead so God set about creating a new Adam who would be Jesus Christ at his second coming with his body of believers the multitude he would present to the Father this is man ( mankind) in the image of God not forgetting

His salvation plan was here since before the world was created. It also was here after the flood. That does not mean we count the time from the flood as the time to creation

So if the Father and Son were still working 2000 years ago when will God rest it will be during Christs millennial reign the 7th day of this creation.

He works today also. He will work in the tribulation. The millennium. He is forever and is alive and well and working. Nothing to do with the time from now to the creation of the world

 

[davetaff]

? You must mean the worst? Look at that nation today and the genocide. No connection to God.

No. Israel (except the saved) are reprobates and rebels and unbelievers. His people are the saved. Period. When Israel gets saved (the few remaining alive) they too will then be God's people.

The bishop used that in his work. He also used history such as Solomon etc where it could kick in reliably.

No. Not the world itself or mankind.

His salvation plan was here since before the world was created. It also was here after the flood. That does not mean we count the time from the flood as the time to creation

He works today also. He will work in the tribulation. The millennium. He is forever and is alive and well and working. Nothing to do with the time from now to the creation of the world

Hi truthpls
Thank you for your reply you sad

You must mean the worst? Look at that nation today and the genocide. No connection to God.

Sorry but that contradicts scripture which says

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Take note
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

Take note all Israel will be saved

You said

No. Not the world itself or mankind

He destroyed everything in the world including mankind except for Noah and everything on the ark

You said

His salvation plan was here since before the world was created. It also was here after the flood. That does not mean we count the time from the flood as the time to creation

His plan after the flood was to create mankind in his image which would be completed in Christ at his second coming when he presents himself before God with the multitude of believers this is man in the image of God

You said

He works today also. He will work in the tribulation. The millennium. He is forever and is alive and well and working. Nothing to do with the time from now to the creation of the world

Yes The Father is still working but he will take his Sabbath rest during Christs millennial reign when he hands everything over to Christ to finish the creation of man in the image of God.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Doug Brents]

The Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old, while the universe is estimated to be around 13.8 billion years old.

There are very slow processes we see in nature that do not fit into any young Earth theory.

The Earth, and the Universe around it, are 5927 years old by my count through Scripture. The "very slow processes" of which you speak do not explain most of what we see in nature. For example, if the Earth was 4 billion years old, we would expect to see dozens, if not hundreds of "grand canyon"s, but we find only one, and it was most likely carved in less than a week (see the "little grand canyon" carved by Mt St. Helen's eruption in less than a week).

God created the Earth on the same day (between morning and evening) as He created the Earth, Light, and Darkness. From there, the rest of creation took only 5 more days (morning and evening). You cannot fit 13.8 billion years into one morning and evening time period.

 

[Fervent]

I can say with relative confidence that the Earth is at least 40 years old. Beyond that, it gets kinda murky.

 

[trophy33]

The Earth, and the Universe around it, are 5927 years old by my count through Scripture. The "very slow processes" of which you speak do not explain most of what we see in nature. For example, if the Earth was 4 billion years old, we would expect to see dozens, if not hundreds of "grand canyon"s, but we find only one, and it was most likely carved in less than a week (see the "little grand canyon" carved by Mt St. Helen's eruption in less than a week).

God created the Earth on the same day (between morning and evening) as He created the Earth, Light, and Darkness. From there, the rest of creation took only 5 more days (morning and evening). You cannot fit 13.8 billion years into one morning and evening time period.

For example, if the Earth was only 6,000 years old, the life would be totally wiped out many times, because of the meteorites number.

Reading Genesis as a scientific book is a wrong reading.

 

[truthpls]

Sorry but that contradicts scripture which says

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That contradicts nothing I said. The fullness of the gentiles has not come in yet.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Not until the end and they sure are not saved now

No. Not the world itself or mankind

He destroyed everything in the world including mankind except for Noah and everything on the ark

Exactly so there were still men and woman. We were created in creation week not after the flood.

His plan after the flood was to create mankind in his image which would be completed in Christ at his second coming when he presents himself before God with the multitude of believers this is man in the image of God

The plan actually was in place long before Noah. From the foundation of the world the bible says.

Yes The Father is still working but he will take his Sabbath rest during Christs millennial reign when he hands everything over to Christ to finish the creation of man in the image of God.

No He will not, He will rule the world and so will believers with Him. The sort of rest we enter into involves a lot of work and play and fun and etc etc. God rested from the particular week's work of creating this world and universe after it was done. That does not mean He fell asleep or some such. He worked on other stuff.

 

[davetaff]

That contradicts nothing I said. The fullness of the gentiles has not come in yet.

Not until the end and they sure are not saved now

Exactly so there were still men and woman. We were created in creation week not after the flood.

The plan actually was in place long before Noah. From the foundation of the world the bible says.

No He will not, He will rule the world and so will believers with Him. The sort of rest we enter into involves a lot of work and play and fun and etc etc. God rested from the particular week's work of creating this world and universe after it was done. That does not mean He fell asleep or some such. He worked on other stuff.

Hi truthpls
Thank you for your reply you said


That contradicts nothing I said. The fullness of the gentiles has not come in yet.
That's true but we must not forget.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

So we will be grafted into Israel and all Israel will be saved includes us

You said

Not until the end and they sure are not saved now

I never said they were saved now

You said

Exactly so there were still men and woman. We were created in creation week not after the flood.

I am not talking about a man like me I'm talking about man in the image of God an entirely different thing I'm talking about man in the image of God which is Jesus Christ when he presents himself before the Father with a whole multitude of believers this is man in the image of God.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

The end of creation is man in the image of God that man is Jesus Christ

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This is only said of Jesus Christ no other person

You said

No He will not, He will rule the world and so will believers with Him. The sort of rest we enter into involves a lot of work and play and fun and etc etc. God rested from the particular week's work of creating this world and universe after it was done. That does not mean He fell asleep or some such. He worked on other stuff.

You will need to proove this with scripture which says Christ shall reign for a thousand years that the 7th day of creation and the Fathers sabbath rest because everything will be handed over to Christ to finish the creation

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[truthpls]

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

So we will be grafted into Israel and all Israel will be saved includes us

It does not include secular Israel today. Israel only gets grafted after it gets saved in the very end, and even then it will be after most of them were killed and only a remnant remains.

I never said they were saved now

OK

I am not talking about a man like me I'm talking about man in the image of God an entirely different thing I'm talking about man in the image of God which is Jesus Christ when he presents himself before the Father with a whole multitude of believers this is man in the image of God.

You think was no one saved on the ark?? Ha. If they were believers that means they were in His image like any other believers today or any time. They believed Jesus would come we believe He did come. Same Jesus

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

The end of creation is man in the image of God that man is Jesus Christ

So? That will not be before the Rapture or His return etc. That has nothing to do with adjusting the age of the earth or time since it was created!

You will need to proove this with scripture which says Christ shall reign for a thousand years

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

We also know we shall reign with and this tells us it includes the millennium (along with the tribulation believers)

that the 7th day of creation and the Fathers sabbath rest because everything will be handed over to Christ to finish the creation

This seems garbled and vague. The seventh thousand years period since creation already started since the world is over 6000 years old! Your tacking this to the millennium is not good math

 

[davetaff]

It does not include secular Israel today. Israel only gets grafted after it gets saved in the very end, and even then it will be after most of them were killed and only a remnant remains.

OK

You think was no one saved on the ark?? Ha. If they were believers that means they were in His image like any other believers today or any time. They believed Jesus would come we believe He did come. Same Jesus

So? That will not be before the Rapture or His return etc. That has nothing to do with adjusting the age of the earth or time since it was created!

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

We also know we shall reign with and this tells us it includes the millennium (along with the tribulation believers)


This seems garbled and vague. The seventh thousand years period since creation already started since the world is over 6000 years old! Your tacking this to the millennium is not good math

Hi truthpls
Thank you for your reply you said

It does not include secular Israel today. Israel only gets grafted after it gets saved in the very end, and even then it will be after most of them were killed and only a remnant remains

Can you proove this from scripture I believe all Israel means exactly that from Abraham to the present day Christ died for the sins of the world that includes all Israels sins.

You said
OK

Nice to know we can agree on something it's a start

You said
You think was no one saved on the ark?? Ha. If they were believers that means they were in His image like any other believers today or any time. They believed Jesus would come we believe He did come. Same Jesus

Those on the ark were saved from the creation before the flood will they be saved when Christ returns I don't know only God knows.
Those on the ark were not in the image of God only those who are the body of Christ will be saved at his return.

You posted this

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Those who sit on the thrones are the apostles and the prophets those who have been chosen by God

You said

This seems garbled and vague. The seventh thousand years period since creation already started since the world is over 6000 years old! Your tacking this to the millennium is not good math.

Whats garbled and vague its all pretty strait forward the first creation was destroyed in the flood so God saved everything he needed for a new creation on the ark the only thing missing was Adam he had died so God began a new creation of Adam which would be Jesus Christ at his second advent he is the las Adam all pretty simple and all of this is based on the creation account in Genesis.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[truthpls]

Nice to know we can agree on something it's a start

You said
You think was no one saved on the ark?? Ha. If they were believers that means they were in His image like any other believers today or any time. They believed Jesus would come we believe He did come. Same Jesus

Those on the ark were saved from the creation before the flood will they be saved when Christ returns I don't know only God knows.

? Yes they will be there as believers like us.

Those on the ark were not in the image of God only those who are the body of Christ will be saved at his return.

No one is perfect. He is working on us. What matters is if we believe. They did. Who do you think closed the door on the ark and sent the flood? Jesus.

You posted this

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Those who sit on the thrones are the apostles and the prophets those who have been chosen by God

Since the verse says the people on the thrones and ruling are those beheaded from the tribulation, your assertion that they were some special prophets or whatever is totally made up.

Whats garbled and vague its all pretty strait forward the first creation was destroyed in the flood

No, it was not. The creation is also the sun and stars and life on earth etc. Only the world as it was was destroyed

so God saved everything he needed for a new creation on the ark

No new creation on the ark, sorry. He just salvaged us from the creation already created because it had gotten bad here.

the only thing missing was Adam he had died so God began a new creation of Adam which would be Jesus Christ at his second advent he is the las Adam all pretty simple and all of this is based on the creation account in Genesis.

Jesus is the second Adam in that by one man all can live. That does not mean that Noah died or was 'unsaved' or that this created universe was not still here.

 

[Doug Brents]

For example, if the Earth was only 6,000 years old, the life would be totally wiped out many times, because of the meteorites number.

Seriously? How many more meteorites would have struck Earth in 13 billion years than in 6,000? No, God has created natural laws that prevent Earth from being destroyed by "accident". Now, it may be a meteorite/asteroid/commit that destroys Earth in fire, but I don't think so because God says it will come as a surprise to everyone when the end comes.

Reading Genesis as a scientific book is a wrong reading.

Correct, Genesis is not a "scientific book". But there is a tremendous amount of truth found there that points to correctly understanding what we learn by "science". But then, Genesis does give a definite timeline for the history of Earth, and having tracked that timeline in detail, I can tell you that the Earth is only 5927 years old.

Reference	Generation	Name	Age at son	Further Age	Total Age
Gen 5:3	1	Adam	130	800	930
Gen 5:6	2	Seth	105	807	912
Gen 5:9	3	Enosh	90	815	905
Gen 5:12	4	Cainan	70	840	910
Gen 5:15	5	Mahalalel	65	830	895
Gen 5:18	6	Jared	162	800	962
Gen 5:21	7	Enoch	65	300	365
Gen 5:25	8	Methuselah	187	782	969
Gen 5:28	9	Lamech	182	595	777
Gen 5:32	10	Noah	500	450	950
Gen 11:10	11	Shem	102	500	602
Gen 11:12	12	Arphaxad	35	403	438
Gen 11:14	13	Salah	30	403	433
Gen 11:16	14	Eber	34	430	464
Gen 11:18	15	Peleg	30	209	239
Gen 11:20	16	Reu	32	207	239
Gen 11:22	17	Serug	30	200	230
Gen 11:24	18	Nahor	29	119	148
Gen 11:26	19	Terah	70	135	205
Gen 21:5	20	Abram	100	75	175
	20.1	Ishmael
Gen 25:26	21	Isaac	60	120	180
	22	Jacob	88	59	147
	22.1	1-Reuben
		Hanoch
		Pallu
		Hezron
		Carmi
	22.2	2-Simeon
		Jemuel
		Jamin
		Ohad
		Jachin
		Zohar
		Shaul
	22.3	3-Levi - 137
		Gershon
		Libni
		Himi
	22.3.1	Kohath - 133
	22.3.1.1	Amram - 137
	22.3.1.1.1	Aaron
	22.3.1.1.2	Moses
	22.3.1.1.3	Izhar
	22.3.1.1.4	Hebron
	22.3.1.1.5	Uzziel
	22.3.1.2	Merari
	22.3.1.2.1	Mahli
	22.3.1.2.2	Mushi
	23	4-Judah	35	60	95
	22.5	5-Dan
	22.6	6-Naphtali
	22.7	7-Gad
	22.8	8-Asher
	22.9	9-Issachar
	22.10	10-Zebulun
Joseph was born when Jacob was 91, Gen 47:9, minus Gen 45:6, minus Gen 41:46, minus Gen 41:53.	22.11	11-Joseph	?	110	110

Having traced the history of Earth from Creation to Joseph, and knowing that from when Abraham was given the Covenant after he left UR (Gal 3:17) until the Exodus was 430 years (which occurred when Moses was 80), archeology tells us that the Exodus occurred in or around the year 1446 BC. 1446 then corresponds to the year 2458 from Creation.

 

[Job 33:6]

Seriously? How many more meteorites would have struck Earth in 13 billion years than in 6,000? No, God has created natural laws that prevent Earth from being destroyed by "accident". Now, it may be a meteorite/asteroid/commit that destroys Earth in fire, but I don't think so because God says it will come as a surprise to everyone when the end comes.

Correct, Genesis is not a "scientific book". But there is a tremendous amount of truth found there that points to correctly understanding what we learn by "science". But then, Genesis does give a definite timeline for the history of Earth, and having tracked that timeline in detail, I can tell you that the Earth is only 5927 years old.

Reference	Generation	Name	Age at son	Further Age	Total Age
Gen 5:3	1	Adam	130	800	930
Gen 5:6	2	Seth	105	807	912
Gen 5:9	3	Enosh	90	815	905
Gen 5:12	4	Cainan	70	840	910
Gen 5:15	5	Mahalalel	65	830	895
Gen 5:18	6	Jared	162	800	962
Gen 5:21	7	Enoch	65	300	365
Gen 5:25	8	Methuselah	187	782	969
Gen 5:28	9	Lamech	182	595	777
Gen 5:32	10	Noah	500	450	950
Gen 11:10	11	Shem	102	500	602
Gen 11:12	12	Arphaxad	35	403	438
Gen 11:14	13	Salah	30	403	433
Gen 11:16	14	Eber	34	430	464
Gen 11:18	15	Peleg	30	209	239
Gen 11:20	16	Reu	32	207	239
Gen 11:22	17	Serug	30	200	230
Gen 11:24	18	Nahor	29	119	148
Gen 11:26	19	Terah	70	135	205
Gen 21:5	20	Abram	100	75	175
	20.1	Ishmael
Gen 25:26	21	Isaac	60	120	180
	22	Jacob	88	59	147
	22.1	1-Reuben
		Hanoch
		Pallu
		Hezron
		Carmi
	22.2	2-Simeon
		Jemuel
		Jamin
		Ohad
		Jachin
		Zohar
		Shaul
	22.3	3-Levi - 137
		Gershon
		Libni
		Himi
	22.3.1	Kohath - 133
	22.3.1.1	Amram - 137
	22.3.1.1.1	Aaron
	22.3.1.1.2	Moses
	22.3.1.1.3	Izhar
	22.3.1.1.4	Hebron
	22.3.1.1.5	Uzziel
	22.3.1.2	Merari
	22.3.1.2.1	Mahli
	22.3.1.2.2	Mushi
	23	4-Judah	35	60	95
	22.5	5-Dan
	22.6	6-Naphtali
	22.7	7-Gad
	22.8	8-Asher
	22.9	9-Issachar
	22.10	10-Zebulun
Joseph was born when Jacob was 91, Gen 47:9, minus Gen 45:6, minus Gen 41:46, minus Gen 41:53.	22.11	11-Joseph	?	110	110

Having traced the history of Earth from Creation to Joseph, and knowing that from when Abraham was given the Covenant after he left UR (Gal 3:17) until the Exodus was 430 years (which occurred when Moses was 80), archeology tells us that the Exodus occurred in or around the year 1446 BC. 1446 then corresponds to the year 2458 from Creation.

Genesis 1 describes ex materia creation, not ex nihilo:

 

[Doug Brents]

Genesis 1 describes ex materia creation, not ex nihilo:

What does "create" mean? It means to make something out of nothing. In the beginning, God made the heavens and the Earth out of nothing. Then He formed them a piece at a time into the shapes and functions He wanted. But it all started with Him making everything that is out of the nothing that was before the beginning.

 

[Job 33:6]

What does "create" mean? It means to make something out of nothing. In the beginning, God made the heavens and the Earth out of nothing. Then He formed them a piece at a time into the shapes and functions He wanted. But it all started with Him making everything that is out of the nothing that was before the beginning.

I created a work of art. Did I create something out of nothing?

I enjoy playing football. I created a football team. Did I make the players appear out of thin air?

A recipe. I created a recipe. Anything "out of nothing" here?

I created a house. Did I make wood and stone appear out of nothing to create that house?

As you can see, create does not inherently mean "out of nothing".

In fact, in the old testament, it is never actually used as such, but is frequently used in ways that are obviously ex materia, or it's more related to God appointing or declaring things. Such as when God created Jerusalem.

Or consider Genesis day 6. God created mankind. Ok, was Adam created out of nothing? How about Eve? No. Dust of the ground and a rib bone. That's not "out of nothing".

Psalm 51, the psalmist asks God to create in him, a clean heart. That's obviously not ex nihilo.

Psalm 89, God created the North and the south. That's not "something out of nothing".

Isaiah 43:15, God created Israel.

Isaiah 45:7, God created calamity

Isaiah 54:16, God created a blacksmith.

Isaiah 65:18, God created Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 21:19, the creation of a sign post.

Amos 4:13, God created wind.

Etc.

Please don't make comments that are completely false. Please study the matter first.

Thank you.

 

[Doug Brents]

I created a work of art. Did I create something out of nothing?

No, man is incapable of creating anything. We reshape what is there, we refashion the things around us, we change what God has put here for us. But we do not create anything.

I enjoy playing football. I created a football team. Did I make the players appear out of thin air?

You did not create a football team. You gathered players and put them together in a team. Using the term create here is an improper use of the word.

A recipe. I created a recipe. Anything "out of nothing" here?

You wrote a recipe, you put ingredients together in a new way, but you did not create anything.

I created a house. Did I make wood and stone appear out of nothing to create that house?

You built a house out of material that was already there. You did not create anything.

As you can see, create does not inherently mean "out of nothing".

In fact, in the old testament, it is never actually used as such, but is frequently used in ways that are obviously ex materia, or it's more related to God appointing or declaring things. Such as when God created Jerusalem.

God did not create Jerusalem (please show me the verse where you think it says He did). He built Jerusalem, but, from what I can tell, He has not created anything since the sixth day the universe existed. He still has the capacity to create at His whim, but mankind does not have this capacity.

Or consider Genesis day 6. God created mankind. Ok, was Adam created out of nothing? How about Eve? No. Dust of the ground and a rib bone. That's not "out of nothing".

God fashioned a body for man out of the dust he had already created, and then He created a living soul for man out of nothing. Man's body was not created, but "man" is not his body, but is the soul that will live on beyond the life of this body.

Psalm 51, the psalmist asks God to create in him, a clean heart. That's obviously not ex nihilo.

Yes, it is. The dead heart is just that, dead, and a new heart must be created, not remade from the old.

Psalm 89, God created the North and the south. That's not "something out of nothing".

God crated everything. He made the north and the south out of nothing.

Please don't make comments that are completely false. Please study the matter first.

I have studied the matter thoroughly, and God created the entire Universe "ex nihlo" (as you like to call it), and man is only capable of "ex materia" manipulation of what God has created.

 

[Job 33:6]

No, man is incapable of creating anything. We reshape what is there, we refashion the things around us, we change what God has put here for us. But we do not create anything.

We are capable of creating things. I created a spreadsheet in Excel today.

Maybe you don't like using the word "create", but the English language doesn't really change just because you don't like how the word can be used.

You did not create a football team. You gathered players and put them together in a team. Using the term create here is an improper use of the word.

You wrote a recipe, you put ingredients together in a new way, but you did not create anything.

Sure I did, I created a recipe and a football team. Again, just because you don't like how I'm using the word, doesn't mean that my use of the word is grammatically or typographically incorrect. What I am saying is correct and true.

God did not create Jerusalem (please show me the verse where you think it says He did). He built Jerusalem, but, from what I can tell, He has not created anything since the sixth day the universe existed. He still has the capacity to create at His whim, but mankind does not have this capacity.

God did create Jerusalem. That's what the Bible says. How dare you deny scripture.

Isaiah 65:18 ESV
[18] But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.

God fashioned a body for man out of the dust he had already created, and then He created a living soul for man out of nothing. Man's body was not created, but "man" is not his body, but is the soul that will live on beyond the life of this body.

No, God created mankind on day 6. Now you're acting like mankind was never created in Genesis chapter 1. As if when God created a living soul, and Adams body was mysteriously already there.

Yes, it is. The dead heart is just that, dead, and a new heart must be created, not remade from the old.

No. The psalmist isn't asking for anything material here. He's not asking for heart surgery.

God crated everything. He made the north and the south out of nothing.

The North and South aren't physical objects. Nothing material is coming out of nothing.

I have studied the matter thoroughly, and God created the entire Universe "ex nihlo" (as you like to call it), and man is only capable of "ex materia" manipulation of what God has created.

Apparently not because you've just skipped all the other examples I've given.

You've denied that God created Jerusalem even though it's plainly stated in scripture, and you've denied that mankind was physically created on day 6.

 

[Job 33:6]

Isaiah 43:15 ESV
[15] I am the Lord, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.”

Is this ex nihilo? Israel just appears out of nothing?

Or consider Genesis day 6. God created mankind. Ok, was Adam created out of nothing? How about Eve? No. Dust of the ground and a rib bone. That's not "out of nothing".

Unless you deny material creation of mankind in Genesis 1.

Psalm 51, the psalmist asks God to create in him, a clean heart. That's obviously not ex nihilo. A physical heart isn't appearing out of nothing. This is metaphor.

Psalm 89, God created the North and the south. That's not "something out of nothing".

North and South are not physical objects.

Isaiah 43:15, God created Israel.

Israel did not appear out of thin air.

Isaiah 45:7, God created calamity

Calamity is not a physical object.

Isaiah 54:16, God created a blacksmith.

A blacksmith did not appear out of thin air.

Isaiah 65:18, God created Jerusalem.

Jerusalem did not appear out of thin air.

Ezekiel 21:19, the creation of a sign post.

Sign post did not appear out of thin air.

Amos 4:13, God created wind.

Wind does not appear out of thin air. This is God moving things around.

I know, people usually get their feelings hurt when they realize that the Bible isn't talking about the Big Bang. But that's just how it is.