How Old Is The Earth

[Diamond72]

There's nothing in the Bible to suggest that God is subject to the natural laws which His creation is bound to.

There is nothing in the Bible that says God breaks His own laws.

Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." The question is of course are the laws of science different from the laws of Moses or the 613 laws the Rabbi say there are. Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus came to fulfill the law and He lived His life as an example for us to follow. John talks about this also: 1John 3:4 "3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure. 4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

I have seen a lot of miracles and a lot of healing but I have ONLY seen the law of God restored. NOT broken. This is why it is difficult to prove a miracle because all is restored to they way all should be.

 

[Diamond72]

Someone once told me that Peter fell in because he didn’t know how to balance on icebergs.

There are lots of video on YouTube of people breaking the ice and falling into the water. The pond we grew up on was very shallow so when people went though the ice they could still stand on the bottom. It was only waist deep.

Ice was very rare in the Middle East and it could be this was the first time they ever saw ice like this. They do know that the climate was colder there at the time.

 

[Dan1988]

There is nothing in the Bible that says God breaks His own laws.

Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." The question is of course are the laws of science different from the laws of Moses or the 613 laws the Rabbi say there are. Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus came to fulfill the law and He lived His life as an example for us to follow. John talks about this also: 1John 3:4 "3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure. 4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

I have seen a lot of miracles and a lot of healing but I have ONLY seen the law of God restored. NOT broken. This is why it is difficult to prove a miracle because all is restored to they way all should be.

God gave the law to condemn sinners, but His law doesn't apply to Him because He is not a sinner so He can't come under condemnation. Everyone will be judged according to their works, whether they be good or evil, God will not be judged because He is perfect.

So we can dismiss your opinion regarding God keeping His own laws, because He is the Judge of all. It silly to suggest that God would judge Himself or punish Himself.

Now that we have dismissed that silly idea, it only leaves the law that governs the natural realm. Mankind is bound to obey the natural laws, if he attempts to break them, he will quickly be destroyed. But God is not subject to the laws that He imposed on the natural realm. He break them all he time without any consequences, because He has full control over them while we are fully subject to them.

You have obviously confused the moral law with the natural law, they are not one and the same. They are tow distinctly different laws. God can't change anything about Himself, He has always been the same in eternity past and He will remain exactly the same in eternity to come. God has already predetermined the whole the whole of mankind's history from the start to the finish, so He see's all of time past and future right now, so nothing can happen unless He predestined it to happen.

I have never seen or heard of any genuine miracles or healings, they simply don't exist. They are performed by fake Ministers, who use Witchcraft to deceive people with their craft, but nobody is ever healed and they are not miracles at all.

 

[Diamond72]

God gave the law to condemn sinners, but His law doesn't apply to Him because He is not a sinner so He can't come under condemnation.

I think you win the prize for twisted logic. Make up your mind, you can not play both sides of the fence. Either He can or He can NOT break the law. Jesus said if you see HIM you see the Father. Jesus SAID that He can to fulfill the law in every way and He never broke the law. That was why He was pure and He could go to Calvary FOR US>

 

[Diamond72]

So we can dismiss your opinion regarding God keeping His own laws, because He is the Judge of all. It silly to suggest that God would judge Himself or punish Himself.

Perhaps you do not understand what Justice is. The main point is that Many scientist-theologians reasoned that God could act at the quantum level to accomplish his purposes and that such divine action would not violate any laws of nature. This is why we have quantum physics.

 

[Dan1988]

I think you win the prize for twisted logic. Make up your mind, you can not play both sides of the fence. Either He can or He can NOT break the law. Jesus said if you see HIM you see the Father. Jesus SAID that He can to fulfill the law in every way and He never broke the law. That was why He was pure and He could go to Calvary FOR US>

Talk about twisted logic, it's not a question of if God can break the law. You missed the elephant in the room, God is not under the law because He is not a sinner. Only sinners are condemned by the law, so your question is not valid, it makes no sense.

Why did Jesus have to fulfill the law in every way if He was not a sinner, you asked the question now answer your own question.

Jesus didn't become pure by fulfilling the law, so your comment is silly and it means that Jesus was not pure until He fulfilled the whole of the law. My Bible tells me that Jesus created Himself, and it tells me the He has always been pure, it tells me that He created everything that exists. So He created the law, to condemn sinner and not to come under it Himself. That would be foolish, it would mean He chose to punish Himself and that's a ludicrous idea.

He didn't have to keep the law to make Himself pure, because He was already pure, RIGHT??????......

 

[Dan1988]

Perhaps you do not understand what Justice is. The main point is that Many scientist-theologians reasoned that God could act at the quantum level to accomplish his purposes and that such divine action would not violate any laws of nature. This is why we have quantum physics.

Point taken, but this does not negate the fact that God breaks the laws of physics, which man and nature are bound by. God knows how to get around those laws because He created the laws and set them in place, so He can move the goal posts at anytime for Himself. But He destroys men who try to get around the natural laws, so God imposed those laws on us but He is exempt because He makes the rules as He goes for Himself.

It's only logical, that God would not subject Himself to the laws which we are forced to obey. If you had the choice as God does, you would break them too, if you're honest about it.

 

[Diamond72]

God is not under the law because He is not a sinner.

If A leads to B, and B leads to C, then A must lead to C. If God is not a sinner than He does not break the law.

Look at the miracle when Jesus multiplied the fish and the loaves of bread. This LOOKS like it violates the first law of Thermodynamics.

Many scientist-theologians reasoned that God could act at the quantum level to accomplish his purposes and that such divine action would not violate any laws of nature.

Albert Einstein had significant reservations about quantum physics. He famously disagreed with the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, encapsulated in his quote, "God does not play dice with the universe." Einstein believed in a deterministic universe where outcomes could be precisely predicted, whereas quantum mechanics relies on probabilities and uncertainties.

 

[Diamond72]

My Bible tells me that Jesus created Himself

Where does your Bible say that? We are told that Jesus is the word of God.

 

[David Lamb]

My Bible tells me that Jesus created Himself, and it tells me the He has always been pure, it tells me that He created everything that exists.

You must have a different bible to me. My bible teaches that Jesus Christ is eternal, and was not created, whether by Himself or by anybody else. Where in the bible do you think we are told that Jesus Christ created Himself?

 

[Diamond72]

If you had the choice as God does, you would break them too, if you're honest about it.

Why would I break the laws of physics? I did construction work. I had to follow all of laws. Jesus tells us if you build on sand your building is going to fall as soon as a storm comes along. It seem to me that is exactly what you are doing is trying to build your home without first securing your foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:11 says, "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hi
People can say what they like but they can't change the word of God if they don't believe this mirical how can they believe all yhe other miricals of Jesus Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave

Exactly my point and that’s precisely what the problem is with that particular individual. He even claimed that Lot’s wife could’ve been turned into a pillar of salt by a meteor airburst, whatever that means. And when I asked about the resurrection his response was that he himself had died temporarily and was resuscitated, I think he was referring to him having a heart attack. It just shows the unwillingness of some people to accept what is written in the Bible for what it is. The Bible is a history book filled with supernatural and spiritual events and frankly if people can’t believe in supernatural and spiritual events then they can’t believe the Bible. I hate to say it but it is what it is.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There are lots of video on YouTube of people breaking the ice and falling into the water. The pond we grew up on was very shallow so when people went though the ice they could still stand on the bottom. It was only waist deep.

Ice was very rare in the Middle East and it could be this was the first time they ever saw ice like this. They do know that the climate was colder there at the time.

The apostles were rowing a boat across the lake when He did this. He literally walked up beside the boat and stepped into it. In order to walk on a frozen lake the ice has to be a minimum of 4” thick. If Jesus walking on water wasn’t a miracle here, then rowing a boat across a frozen lake sure would be.

 

[Diamond72]

then rowing a boat across a frozen lake sure would be.

Clearly they were having trouble rowing the boat. Mark 6:48. "He saw the disciples straining at the oars". There was talk about the wind but Jesus can speak to the wind to calm the storm. Mark 3:39 "Then Jesus got up and rebuked the wind and the sea. “Silence!” He commanded. “Be still!” And the wind died down, and it was perfectly calm. "

The same author (Mark), the same book, two chapters apart. In the first they were afraid. In the second they were straining. A word that in some verses is translated tortured.

Notice Mark was not even there. These are second hand stories that he heard from others that were there. I am not trying to prove anything. The possibility exists and that is why this is up for discussion.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Clearly they were having trouble rowing the boat. Mark 6:48. "He saw the disciples straining at the oars". There was talk about the wind but Jesus can speak to the wind to calm the storm. Mark 3:39 "Then Jesus got up and rebuked the wind and the sea. “Silence!” He commanded. “Be still!” And the wind died down, and it was perfectly calm. "

The same author (Mark), the same book, two chapters apart. In the first they were afraid. In the second they were straining. A word that in some verses is translated tortured.

Notice Mark was not even there. These are second hand stories that he heard from others that were there. I am not trying to prove anything. The possibility exists and that is why this is up for discussion.

You’re still going to pretend that it’s possible to row a boat thru ice that is thick enough to walk on?

 

[davetaff]

You’re still going to pretend that it’s possible to row a boat thru ice that is thick enough to walk on?

Hi
Why not jest believe Gods word which says

John 6:18-21 ESV
[18] The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. [19] When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. [20] But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” [21] Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.

John 6:18-21 The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. But he said | English Standard Version Revision

The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. But he said

bible.com

How one can make a discussion out of this is beyond me all it dose is spread misinformation about Gods word a very unchristian pastime.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Diamond72]

You’re still going to pretend that it’s possible to row a boat thru ice that is thick enough to walk on?

That is the whole point of the story is that it was NOT thick enough for Peter to walk on. In the other story Peter jumped out of the boat into the water. NOW he is worried about getting wet? Maybe the water was cold enough to freeze. Although I have seen a lot of people fall through the ice. There is usually just a weak spot and everyone else on the lake or pond is fine. Even they say the water does not feel that cold to them.

• Matthew 5:17-18: Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
• John 15:10: "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love."

Jesus kept the law and we are to keep the law. Which means we are to always love one another.

Do Jesus' miracles violate the laws of nature?

Hendrik van der Breggen

apologiabyhendrikvanderbreggen.blogspot.com

 

[Diamond72]

How one can make a discussion out of this is beyond me all it dose is spread misinformation about Gods word a very unchristian pastime.

Many theologians and Christian scholars argue that Jesus' miracles do not violate the laws of nature but rather demonstrate His divine authority over them. They see miracles as acts of God that transcend our understanding of natural laws. Instead of breaking these laws, miracles reveal the power and sovereignty of the divine.

It's a perspective that frames miracles as extraordinary rather than contradictory to the natural world.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is the whole point of the story is that it was NOT thick enough for Peter to walk on. In the other story Peter jumped out of the boat into the water. NOW he is worried about getting wet? Maybe the water was cold enough to freeze. Although I have seen a lot of people fall through the ice. There is usually just a weak spot and everyone else on the lake or pond is fine. Even they say the water does not feel that cold to them.

• Matthew 5:17-18: Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
• John 15:10: "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love."

Jesus kept the law and we are to keep the law. Which means we are to always love one another.

Do Jesus' miracles violate the laws of nature?

Hendrik van der Breggen

apologiabyhendrikvanderbreggen.blogspot.com

Yeah I’m done.

 

[Diamond72]

Yeah I’m done.

Might as well. I think most of the time people are having two different conversations at the same time and neither one has anything to do with the other.