How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

[Evergreen48]

But that statement by Paul is in the future. "Shall have" is a future tense, so how can it have already happened?

At the time Paul made the statement it had not happened yet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by A New Dawn But that statement by Paul is in the future. "Shall have" is a future tense, so how can it have already happened?

At the time Paul made the statement it had not happened yet.

Good point
Was the Herod's Temple/Sanctuary still standing when Paul said that?

 

[A New Dawn]

At the time Paul made the statement it had not happened yet.

Why is it you believe that the destruction of the temple signals the end of the OT law instead of the advent and death of Jesus? What if the temple hadn't been destroyed in 70 AD? Do we have to wait for an external event to signal the end of the law rather than Christ's ultimate sacrifice?

 

[he-man]

No. I posted that information to show what Jesus' disciples would have believed concerning the Messiah that had been promised them, so to lend credence to my earlier remark that, "As the disciples of our Lord believed him to be the Son of God; their promised Messiah, it would not make any sense for them to ask of him "what would be the sign of his coming" since he was already there walking among them. However, it would make sense if they inquired as to what would be the sign of his presense (parousia ) in the matters that would be connected to the prediction of the destruction of the holy temple." . It is clear that they did not believe that their Messiah would come, then leave, and then come again. I am sorry you misunderstood in thinking that this was what I also believed.

However, I do believe that the resurrection as discussed by the apostle Paul in 1 Cor. 15:50-57 has occurred.

1 Cor. 15:54. "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

I see, so you are immortal now and cannot be KILLED? I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn, if you are interested!

1 Cor. 15:54. "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality

 

[Evergreen48]

Why is it you believe that the destruction of the temple signals the end of the OT law instead of the advent and death of Jesus?

I am not sure what you mean by the 'signal' that ended the OT law. I don't believe that the destruction of the temple was what ended the OT law. The death and resurrection (mainly his resurrection) of Jesus ended the OT law for those who believed in him. But it did not end the administration of the OT law. Only the destruction of the temple through which it had been administered would do this.

Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:17-19.)

We find by reading in the 'Acts of the apostles' that Peter and the other apostles were careful to observe and keep the law even after Jesus had left them on their own to preach and teach the good news of his kingdom. This, then, would present the question of why they were still observing the OT law even after their Lord had suffered these things in order to free them from it. The answer to that question could only be that they were still waiting for some of these things to be fulfilled.

What if the temple hadn't been destroyed in 70 AD? Do we have to wait for an external event to signal the end of the law rather than Christ's ultimate sacrifice?

There are no 'what if's' when it comes to our all wise sovereign God fulfilling his purpose. We may as well ask: "what if Jesus had weakened his resolve and would not have gone to the cross?", as to ask 'what if the temple had not been destroyed in 70 A.D.?' This was all a part of God's magnificent purpose which worked hand in hand with his foreknowledge of everything that has happened, or will ever happen.

 

[he-man]

Why is it you believe that the destruction of the temple signals the end of the OT law instead of the advent and death of Jesus? What if the temple hadn't been destroyed in 70 AD? Do we have to wait for an external event to signal the end of the law rather than Christ's ultimate sacrifice?

The new covenant was the promise of eternal inheritance and without which the Gentiles would be left out, unable to receive the PROMISE to inherit the Land God gave to Abraham and his seed.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comethwith ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom which shall not be destroyed.

 

[A New Dawn]

I am not sure what you mean by the 'signal' that ended the OT law. I don't believe that the destruction of the temple was what ended the OT law. The death and resurrection (mainly his resurrection) of Jesus ended the OT law for those who believed in him. But it did not end the administration of the OT law. Only the destruction of the temple through which it had been administered would do this.

You stated

But I do believe that the age (aión ) that we live in today, is the age ( aión) which began at the end of the old covenant law age (aión in 70 A.D. when Zion (Jerusalem) was razed, thereby destroying the last remaining vestige of the old covenant law system.​

You stated that the age began in 70 AD, when the temple was razed, destroying the last vestige of the old covenant system. I'm asking why you believe that that is when the age started instead of when Christ died and was resurrected.

I'm trying to understand what you, as a preterist, believe. A preterist believes that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled with the destruction of the temple and that Christ's coming in glory and the resurrection of the dead has already happened.

Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:17-19.)

We find by reading in the 'Acts of the apostles' that Peter and the other apostles were careful to observe and keep the law even after Jesus had left them on their own to preach and teach the good news of his kingdom. This, then, would present the question of why they were still observing the OT law even after their Lord had suffered these things in order to free them from it. The answer to that question could only be that they were still waiting for some of these things to be fulfilled.

There was more to going to the temple than just making sacrifices. I believe that the apostles and believers initially continued worshipping at the temple because there was no other option. There wasn't a Christian church entity at the time and, until Paul took Christianity to the gentiles, they just believed it was a subset of Judaism. God directed them out of Judaism, therefore, it was not a subset of Judaism but a different religion with different observances altogether.

Just because the outward appearance of Jews sacrificing at the temple didn't end, doesn't mean that the law hadn't been fulfilled and the age ended. The law ended when it was fulfilled (at the death of Christ).

 

[Fulltruthministry]

I think its important to consider the kingdoms of the eath and how rulers rise to mirror each other; as history repeats itself through the desires of the forces of this world acted out in men: Thus the things that happen in the end; has happened over and over again to an extent: Being that we are in the end:
Jesus even told them in their day; the end is near: And its still true today;

So weak nations in their frantic wisdom seek to prostitute themselves; and systems set themselves up in a cloche of holiness; just waiting to be used by the body of falsehood: Claiming to be of God; looking God; as men bow before that which is not of the Lord; calling the one father that shall bear no sons of goodness:


So the end is STILL near:
QUESTION:
What if someone in their forties told another person of their age that Jesus was coming in atleast 60 years:
What if we REALLY Believed that Jesus was coming in 60 years; and at the age of forty just forsook the world and saw everything as being vain, and we just clung to God; worked His will and waited:
Is that reasonable;
Well if anyone is forty or older;
For YOU AND ME: HE IS coming in no longer then 60 years; unless we live to be over 100; we SHALL be in His presence on way or the other in at least 100 years for us all: Absent from the body present with the Lord: NOW: I ask again: WHAT REALLY MATTERS

 

[Evergreen48]

You stated
But I do believe that the age (aión ) that we live in today, is the age ( aión) which began at the end of the old covenant law age (aión in 70 A.D. when Zion (Jerusalem) was razed, thereby destroying the last remaining vestige of the old covenant law system.

You stated that the age began in 70 AD, when the temple was razed, destroying the last vestige of the old covenant system. I'm asking why you believe that that is when the age started instead of when Christ died and was resurrected.

I believe it because Jesus said so. The disciples asked him what would be the sign of his presense, and what would be the sign of the end of the age. In verses 4 thru 14 of chapter 24 Jesus tells them what the signs to watch for which would precede the end of the age. And he tells them that after these things had come to pass, then the end of the age would come.

4. "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8. All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9.Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

These things did come to pass just as Jesus said they would and the end of the age came when the Roman armies marched on the holy city and completely destroyed everything in it, including the holy temple. Josephus, a Jewish historian of that era who surveyed and lived through the siege, describes the destruction and carnage that took place at this holocaust. He describes awful things like a woman who cooked and ate her own child, and how some of the Jews swallowed their gold and jewels so thinking that they would be able to retrieve their wealth later from their own dung piles. But those wicked men were wise to one another and they began to slay each other, disemboweling the slain in order to gain more wealth for themselves. Pretty awful, huh? No wonder Jesus said there had never been such tribulation as this since their world began and that never would it be again so awful as it was then.

I'm trying to understand what you, as a preterist, believe. A preterist believes that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled with the destruction of the temple and that Christ's coming in glory and the resurrection of the dead has already happened.

Your understanding of what I, as a preterist believes, is correct.

There was more to going to the temple than just making sacrifices.

Yes, of course there was, for it was through the temple that their entire governing process proceeded. The temple was the 'capitol' building of the national Jewish polity. And when it was destroyed along with the entire city of Jerusalem, this left no place for either sacrifices or the governing process to take place.

I believe that the apostles and believers initially continued worshipping at the temple because there was no other option. There wasn't a Christian church entity at the time and, until Paul took Christianity to the gentiles, they just believed it was a subset of Judaism. God directed them out of Judaism, therefore, it was not a subset of Judaism but a different religion with different observances altogether.

No. The apostles first preached the gospel in local synagogues, and in 'open air' gatherings. Later when they were more of an organized group they met in the homes of some of the other believers. Later on they were forced to meet in hidden places for fear of being persecuted and killed. But the point was that they were still practicing and obeying the old covenant laws up until the time when all was fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A D.

Just because the outward appearance of Jews sacrificing at the temple didn't end, doesn't mean that the law hadn't been fulfilled and the age ended. The law ended when it was fulfilled (at the death of Christ).

We are not talking about the ending of the law. We are talking about the end of the law AGE The end of that age was when everything that even slightly pertained to the law was wiped completely away.

Of course Jesus fulfilled the law, but that was not done by his death on the cross. The fulfilment of the law was his perfect obedience to the law.

May I ask, if we are still waiting for this present heaven and earth to pass away and for the the new heaven and earth to come down, how is it that we are not still teaching and practicing obedience to law as Jesus said in Matthew 5: 17-19: "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ?

 

[he-man]

I believe it because Jesus said so. . 8. All these are the beginning of sorrows. then shall the end come."

These things did come to pass just as Jesus said they would and the end of the age came when the Roman armies marched on the holy city and completely destroyed everything in it, iNo wonder Jesus said there had never been such tribulation as this since their world began and that never would it be again so awful as it was then.

All these are the beginning of sorrows but the end is not here yet. The Soldiers that will bring about the END of DAYs are:

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Of course Jesus fulfilled the law, but that was not done by his death on the cross. The fulfilment of the law was his perfect obedience to the law.
May I ask, if we are still waiting for this present heaven and earth to pass away and for the the new heaven and earth to come down, how is it that we are not still teaching and practicing obedience to law as Jesus said in Matthew 5: 17-19: till all be fulfilled. in the kingdom of heaven." ?

You have answered your own question till all be fulfilled in the kingdom .

Do you think Jesus has already returned to eat the passover?

Have you yet sat on the thrones judging?

Luk 22:16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We find by reading in the 'Acts of the apostles' that Peter and the other apostles were careful to observe and keep the law even after Jesus had left them on their own to preach and teach the good news of his kingdom. This, then, would present the question of why they were still observing the OT law even after their Lord had suffered these things in order to free them from it. The answer to that question could only be that they were still waiting for some of these things to be fulfilled.

There was more to going to the temple than just making sacrifices. I believe that the apostles and believers initially continued worshipping at the temple because there was no other option. There wasn't a Christian church entity at the time and, until Paul took Christianity to the gentiles, they just believed it was a subset of Judaism. God directed them out of Judaism, therefore, it was not a subset of Judaism but a different religion with different observances altogether.

Just because the outward appearance of Jews sacrificing at the temple didn't end, doesn't mean that the law hadn't been fulfilled and the age ended. The law ended when it was fulfilled (at the death of Christ).

Very interesting post and I agree

Would that be what Paul is talking about in 2 Corin 6? Wasn't the Temple/Sanctuary in Jerusalem the "Heart" of Judaism back at that time? Thoughts?

[Just to add that I am really enjoying the dialogue between you and Evergreen on here ]

2 Corin 6 and the "them" question - Christian Forums
2 Corin 6 and the "them" question

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
and an unclean-thing no ye be touching! and I shall be accepting ye
[Revelation 18:4]

Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of Her, My people, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,

 

[he-man]

Very interesting post and I agree

Would that be what Paul is talking about in 2 Corin 6? Wasn't the Temple/Sanctuary in Jerusalem the "Heart" of Judaism back at that time? Thoughts?

[Just to add that I am really enjoying the dialogue between you and Evergreen on here ]

2 Corin 6 and the "them" question - Christian Forums
2 Corin 6 and the "them" question

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
and an unclean-thing no ye be touching! and I shall be accepting ye
[Revelation 18:4]

Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of Her, My people, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,

Who are the ones Jesus calls them? Who accused Christ?

Mr 15:1 And at once, in the morning, the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus, and brought him in, and handed him over to Pilate.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty<G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]15...they were judged every man according to their works. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who are the ones Jesus calls them? Who accused Christ?

The same ones shown in Revelation

Luke 23:30 "Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the mountains 'be falling upon us' and to the hills 'cover us'".
[Hosea 10:8/Reve 6:16]

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks 'be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb
17 that came the day, the great, of the wrath of Him, and who is able to stand'. [Hosea 10:8/Luke 23:30]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think its important to consider the kingdoms of the eath and how rulers rise to mirror each other; as history repeats itself through the desires of the forces of this world acted out in men: Thus the things that happen in the end; has happened over and over again to an extent: Being that we are in the end:
Jesus even told them in their day; the end is near: And its still true today;

So weak nations in their frantic wisdom seek to prostitute themselves; and systems set themselves up in a cloche of holiness; just waiting to be used by the body of falsehood: Claiming to be of God; looking God; as men bow before that which is not of the Lord; calling the one father that shall bear no sons of goodness:


So the end is STILL near:
QUESTION:
What if someone in their forties told another person of their age that Jesus was coming in atleast 60 years:
What if we REALLY Believed that Jesus was coming in 60 years; and at the age of forty just forsook the world and saw everything as being vain, and we just clung to God; worked His will and waited:
Is that reasonable;
Well if anyone is forty or older;
For YOU AND ME: HE IS coming in no longer then 60 years; unless we live to be over 100; we SHALL be in His presence on way or the other in at least 100 years for us all: Absent from the body present with the Lord: NOW: I ask again: WHAT REALLY MATTERS

Not sure I understand.
This thread concerns Matthew 24.
Do you have a view on that and if so, could you please vote in the poll. Thanks

Current poll results:

I view all of it fulfilled

26 24.07%
I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled

43 39.81%
I view it as none of it is fulfilled

14 12.96%
I don't really know

11 10.19%
Other [please explain]

14 12.96%

 

[Gareth]

Of course death and hell aren't alive are they? They being cast into the fire that burns forever is an indication their blight on the human family will be done away with forever. This fire is an indication of eternal destruction, that those states will never come back to plague humanity. Which is why when the Devil is cast there it is indicating his end as was foretold in Gen 3:15 (bruising in the head).

 

[he-man]

Of course death and hell aren't alive are they? They being cast into the fire that burns forever is an indication their blight on the human family will be done away with forever. This fire is an indication of eternal destruction, that those states will never come back to plague humanity. Which is why when the Devil is cast there it is indicating his end as was foretold in Gen 3:15 (bruising in the head).

No there is no satan, it is man that accused Christ by killing him.
Mat 13:28 &#959; &#948;&#949; &#949;&#966;&#951; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#959;&#953;&#962; &#949;&#967;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#962; &#945;&#957;&#952;&#961;&#969;&#960;&#959;&#962; &#964;&#959;&#965;&#964;&#959; &#949;&#960;&#959;&#953;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#957; &#959;&#953; &#948;&#949; &#948;&#959;&#965;&#955;&#959;&#953; &#955;&#949;&#947;&#959;&#965;&#963;&#953;&#957; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#969; &#952;&#949;&#955;&#949;&#953;&#962; &#959;&#965;&#957; &#945;&#960;&#949;&#955;&#952;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#949;&#962; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#945;

Mat 13:28 And he said to them, A man an enemy has done this. And the bondmen said to him, Wilt thou then that we should go and gather it ? [Darby]

Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, having gone away we may gather it up? [YLT]

Mt 13:28 He said to them, a man1, an enemy has done this thing. And the servants said to him, Do you wish then that we go and gather2 them up?
1* Greek &#945;&#957;&#952;&#961;&#969;&#960;&#959;&#962; man

2* Greek &#963;&#965;&#955;&#955;&#941;&#947;&#969; gather, collect

Let both grow together is indicative of man

Mat 13:30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them up: but gather the wheat into my repository.

Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Of course death and hell aren't alive are they? They being cast into the fire that burns forever is an indication their blight on the human family will be done away with forever. This fire is an indication of eternal destruction, that those states will never come back to plague humanity. Which is why when the Devil is cast there it is indicating his end as was foretold in Gen 3:15 (bruising in the head).

I would tend to agree. Thanks for posting

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any other views on this? thanks

 

[cupid dave]

A New Dawn
We find by reading in the 'Acts of the apostles' that Peter and the other apostles were careful to observe and keep the law even after Jesus had left them on their own to preach and teach the good news of his kingdom. This, then, would present the question of why they were still observing the OT law even after their Lord had suffered these things in order to free them from it. The answer to that question could only be that they were still waiting for some of these things to be fulfilled.
There was more to going to the temple than just making sacrifices. I believe that the apostles and believers initially continued worshipping at the temple because there was no other option. There wasn't a Christian church entity at the time and, until Paul took Christianity to the gentiles, they just believed it was a subset of Judaism. God directed them out of Judaism, therefore, it was not a subset of Judaism but a different religion with different observances altogether.

Just because the outward appearance of Jews sacrificing at the temple didn't end, doesn't mean that the law hadn't been fulfilled and the age ended. The law ended when it was fulfilled (at the death of Christ).

Very interesting post and I agree

Would that be what Paul is talking about in 2 Corin 6? Wasn't the Temple/Sanctuary in Jerusalem the "Heart" of Judaism back at that time? Thoughts?

[Just to add that I am really enjoying the dialogue between you and Evergreen on here ]

2 Corin 6 and the "them" question - Christian Forums
2 Corin 6 and the "them" question

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
and an unclean-thing no ye be touching! and I shall be accepting ye
[Revelation 18:4]

Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of Her, My people, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,

The reason the Hebrew Christians did and still, today, observe Torah is that not a tittle is to be removed from the Law for Jewish believers.

The Gentiles who accepted christ, however, were only and today are only required to observe the Seven Noachide Laws:

 

[A New Dawn]

A New Dawn
We find by reading in the 'Acts of the apostles' that Peter and the other apostles were careful to observe and keep the law even after Jesus had left them on their own to preach and teach the good news of his kingdom. This, then, would present the question of why they were still observing the OT law even after their Lord had suffered these things in order to free them from it. The answer to that question could only be that they were still waiting for some of these things to be fulfilled.
There was more to going to the temple than just making sacrifices. I believe that the apostles and believers initially continued worshipping at the temple because there was no other option. There wasn't a Christian church entity at the time and, until Paul took Christianity to the gentiles, they just believed it was a subset of Judaism. God directed them out of Judaism, therefore, it was not a subset of Judaism but a different religion with different observances altogether.

Just because the outward appearance of Jews sacrificing at the temple didn't end, doesn't mean that the law hadn't been fulfilled and the age ended. The law ended when it was fulfilled (at the death of Christ).



The reason the Hebrew Christians did and still, today, observe Torah is that not a tittle is to be removed from the Law for Jewish believers.

The Gentiles who accepted christ, however, were only and today are only required to observe the Seven Noachide Laws:

Jesus said he came to fulfill the law. And when He died, He said "It is finished". I prefer to believe that Jesus meant what he said. That the others gathered in the temple to worship does not change the truth of the matter that everything was fulfilled in Jesus.