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How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LittleLambofJesus, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. I view all of it fulfilled

  2. I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled

  3. I view it as none of it is fulfilled

  4. I don't really know

  5. Other [please explain]

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  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    The question I want to ask those Christian here on GT is how much of Matthew 24 and the Olivet Discourse do you view a fulfilled.

    I hope I gave the right options and I am really hoping to get some input on others here on it. Thank you and God bless

    Matthew 24:3 Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age" [Daniel 12/Revelation 15:1]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2011
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  2. Tyndale

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    Using strongs for definition of the greek words.



    Maybe the different words for 'world' don't add up to anything significant, but why were they used?


    The evil servant who thinks he knows when Christ will come is interesting though. Jesus says in vs 50 "The lord of thatservant shall comein a daywhen he lookethnot for him, andin an hourthat he isnot aware of". Now, if this day has come and past, what does it mean for the rest of us? Can we be safe in the hope that we don't have to look forward to Christ return? Can we be safe in knowing we are like the 5 wise virgins in the following chapter and not like the 5 foolish ones?

    Matt 25: 13 "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh"
     
  3. Gary51

    Gary51 Senior Veteran

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    I would have thought this thread was worthy of some debate.

    I voted none.
     
  4. tansy

    tansy Senior Member

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    That'sreally interesting - I hadnt realised those words were translated differently...I'll have to think about that. It can really make one's understanding of a passage clearer (sometimes at any rate LOL) :)
     
  5. JohnDB

    JohnDB Regular Member

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    as with many prophesies many things can be taken (and should be) more than one way.

    When Jesus said the part about "this generation"...it also could be understood as this race (which would include their religion) shall not ever perish in front of him.

    In other words the Jews will be here till the end of the earth...complete with their practice of Judaism. These people are left as to a testimony to what has happened and the supremacy of what God says. Several times the Jews have been forced to either convert of face extermination. They haven't done either.

    So...IMHO...if the Jews seem to disapear or no longer are practicing Judaism..at all...we are all outta here. The end of the earth is at hand.
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Any other views? I would like to hear from some RCs if possible. Thanks

    [I myself believe all of Matt 24 and Daniel are fulfilled] :wave:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2009
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Shameless bump :blush:
     
  8. Gary51

    Gary51 Senior Veteran

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    Can you explain why?
     
  9. ToxicReboMan

    ToxicReboMan Always Hungry for Truth

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    Great question! :)

    I would have voted "mostly/partially fulfilled' but I instead voted "other". The reason being is that I think it would have been better to separate "mostly fulfilled" and "partially fulfilled" into separate choices. As I would have then voted "partially".

    At the moment, my view on this topic is that only the beginning segment of Matt 24 could possibly already be fulfilled. And that doesn't mean that it necessarily has been fulfilled but I view it as highly possible. I am talking about the false messiahs, wars and rumors of wars, famines, and earthquakes which Christ spoke about. Considering that Jesus said that these were only the beginning of the birth pains and that more would come, it is possible that all the terrible things we see happening in our world could become much worse if these prophecies at the beginning of Matt 24 are yet to be fulfilled.

    As for the rest of Matt 24:

    Have all the nations heard about the Good News about the Kingdom?

    According to verse 14 this has to happen first and then the end will come. I'm not sure that this has been completely fulfilled. North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan are a few nations that come to mind. As I understand it is illegal to preach the Gospel in those countries. So perhaps not every corner of the earth has been able to hear the Good News.

    A couple of other reasons on why I view much of Matt 24 as not yet fulfilled:

    a) The sun hasn't been darkened. The moon still gives us light at night. The stars have not fallen from the sky. The powers of heaven have not been shaken.

    b) Jesus Christ has not yet appeared in the heavens.


    I don't claim to know. This is just my current understanding. I would like to understand the reasoning behind your position however. There seems to be plenty of verses in Matt 24 which appear to be still unfulfilled. What is your understanding on these verses?
     
  10. Gary51

    Gary51 Senior Veteran

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    Shameless second request!

    Can you explain why you believe that Matt 24 is fulfilled?
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I also believe most of Revelation is fulfilled as I view Matt 24/Olivet Discourse as the same event showing in Revelation.

    I also view OC Jerusalem/Temple as that "Great City/Prostitute. Can I prove it? Nope.

    The word "parousia" is used ONLY in Matthew of the Gospels and I view it as the same "parousia" spoken of in the Epistles. All written before the destruction of OC Jerusalem, it's Temple/Sanctuary and Priesthood. About all I can say on it right noe.

    Matthew 24:3Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930>of the Age" [Daniel 12/Revelation 15:1]

    1 Corin 15:23Each yet in the own rank, a firstfruit Christ, thereafter the ones of the Christ in the parousia <3952> of Him
    24 thereafter the End/teloV <5056>, whenever He may be giving up the Kingdom to the God and Father, when He shall be nullifying/katarghsh <2673> (5661) every sovereignty/Chief and every authority and power.

    Reve 15:1 And I perceived another Sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven blows, the last, that in them is-finished the fury of the God
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I just now saw I hadn't voted.......I voted ALL fulfilled.

    This person did a commentary awhile back and I even helped her with it finding grammatical errors.

    What I find interesting is how confused Partial Preterists are on this. Some see a "break" in Matt 24 while some view it as all fulfilled.

    This appears to be the same thing Futurists do with Daniel's 70 weeks, putting a "break" in it.

    I and other "full preterists" debated a PP that views ALL of Matt 24 as fulfilled BUT, does not believe that was the 2nd Coming, but rather just "a Coming".

    Sounds pretty "wishy washy" to me :)

    http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html
    *SNIP*

    Bait and Switch?

    I had promised that although I am not dogmatic beyond verse 34 that I would explore the issue of Matthew 24 past that point a bit. However, though I may build on this section in the future, it is not intended to be comprehensive as was the prior section. There are two primary camps within preterism on this issue: one view holds that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On], and another that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off].

    Proponents of the former view include Dan Trotter and Gary DeMar, and proponents of the latter include Kenneth Gentry and Marcellus Kik. Frankly there are strong arguments for both, and I have held both positions, in fact in writing this piece I have waffled - when I started writing I was becoming very convinced of a Pro-Switch view, now upon writing it I am back to my former position of a No-Switch view.

    If in fact there is any change after verse 34, this would be what I would propose (I have not—or my poor memory is not allowing me to recall—read anyone who has made this type of the characterization): the entire Discourse has primary and typological ramifications as does almost the entirety of the Bible, properly understood.

    The subject matter up to verse 34 is strongly primarily speaking of the first century and only very loosely can have thematic application to the future. After verse 34, Jesus speaks much more loosely, doesn't give a strong time referent and refers in ways that can refer to either the first century, the consummation, or both.

    I have swayed in various positions so it is unknown if this will be my final resting place. . . . (after completely writing this piece, I am saying probably not).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2009
  13. PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter

    PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter He's not a man! He's a machine!

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    i don't see how one could ever say none . . . obviously the historical overthrow of Jerusalem ad 70 has to be in play as well as numerous other happenings. the big question among theologians is this a now and not yet sort of prophecy? was the physical destructions a type of the destructions to come at the end?

    go cards
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thanks for your input Pujols and good question.
    From what I know, there are some Christians [including a relative of mine who is a "Dispy futurist"], that do not even view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the same event!

    There is no break in the action in either of those and according to Jesus in Reve 1:1 and 22:6, whatever was coming would be done in "swiftness". Now whether this implies everything would be accomplished in a short period of time, or not, I am not sure.

    Revelation 1:1 An-un-covering Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to His bond-servants which-things is binding to be becoming In Swiftness.
    And He signifies commissioning thru the messenger of Him, to the bondservants of Him, John

    Revelation 22:6 And He said to me "these the Words Faithful and True.
    And Lord, the God of the spirits of the holy Prophets, commissions the Messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him which-things is binding to be becoming In Swiftness.

    I also view that Great City as OC Jerusalem. :wave:

    Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her 44 and they shall be leveling thee and the offspring of thee in thee.
    And not they shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee stead which not thou knew the time of the visitation of thee.

    Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "she falls she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations. [Jeremiah 51:8]
     
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  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Here are 2 verses which use the word "near/nigh at hand".

    Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written, for the Time NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

    Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is" [Revelation 1:3]

    Which is also the same word Jesus uses in Luke 21:31 concerning the Kingdom being "near" :)

    Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2009
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thank you for those that have posted and voted on this thread and I do hope to get more input on this, especially from the Catholics and Orthodox.

    I would like to ask those that voted for "partially/mostly fulfilled" how much of it they feel was not fulfilled. Just curious. Please also note this earlier post at the link below. Thanks :wave:

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923/#post52747537
     
  17. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
    [​IMG]
    I am moving this to Unorthodox Theology. Since the OP voted for a full preterist position, and that is not allowed in GT, it will be moved as to not generate any reports of Statement of Faith, and rules, violations. Thank you for your support.
    MOD HAT OFF
     
  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    HUH? :confused: I didn't think those that believe Matt 24 as being fulfilled were considered "full preterists".
    I thought only those that viewed ALL of Revelation fulfilled were considered full preterists. Can you please explain? Thanks

    I am protesting this thread being moved to the unorthodox board :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2011
  19. Gary51

    Gary51 Senior Veteran

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    It seems you're alone in your vote choice. Can't say I'm surprised!!!
     
  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Me neither :D

    I am hoping we can get more votes in. I will be happy with at least 50 total. :)
     
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