Gibberish talk and its interpretation was a crafty Paul's solution to the babes of Corinthians at that time. It can never apply to grown up Christians like us.
I do believe certain gifts have ceased. I just feel it is good to be loving and to strive to not condemn myself if by some chance I may be wrong (Although many Scriptures show Cessationism to be true).
You said:
Thanks for listing elaborately.
You are most welcome.
It is not just grace. Truth go with it. Salvation has to be earned, not free.
I believe we have free will in our choice in regards to choosing Jesus Christ for salvation and in continuing to follow Him. We have to continue in the faith; For without faith it is impossible to please GOD. We have to continue in his love; For we learn that loving God and loving your neighbor is a part of eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). We have to continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off. I believe King David was not saved while he was committing his sins of adultery and murder and that he needed to confess (Psalms 51) in order to be saved again. The prodigal son was not saved while he was living a prodigal life in sin, until he repented towards his father (everlasting Father, i.e. Jesus) and became "alive again." While we do have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, I would not say that salvation has to be earned (as if to say we have no grace to rest in at any point). I would say that there are "
Works of responsibility in possessing the gift of salvation who is a person named Jesus Christ."
Muslims believe in a system of works ALONE salvationism and there is no grace to rest in at any point. It's all based on one's own merits alone (with no grace). Jesus has to be how we first get saved. It is by His grace we are first saved, and it is by His grace that we build upon in our walk with the Lord. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ is the foundation of our faith. That is the concrete slab (foundation) of our house or building (work). The whole of the building (Whether it be the work of wood or concrete block) rests on the foundation of Jesus and His grace.
Yes, it is true that works do play a part in the salvation process, but grace is how we are initially and ultimately saved. Also, the work a believer does is not by their own power alone, a believer is merely choosing of their own free will to abide in the good work that God wants to do through us. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).
But do we earn salvation? I would say it is not about earning salvation but it is about believing in Christ's sacrifice as our ultimate salvation and in doing work of responsibility so as to maintain that free gift. The best way to illustrate the difference to you is by way of a real world example (that Jesus made many times with his parables).
For example:
If a man named Rick received a car as a free gift, he would have to do "works of responsibility" so as to keep that gift. He would have to make sure he has a driver's license, stop at the gas station to fill up, drive responsibly (not running red lights, or hitting pedestrians), and doing general maintenance on his car. In fact, if Rick hit pedestrians and or ran red lights or drove smash drunk all the time, he would lose his free gift. But if Rick is responsible with his gift, he could keep his free gift. But the car is a free gift. Rick did not have to get a car loan and work at a job that pays enough to pay off that car loan. Rick was not trading dollars for hours at a job (earning) so as to one day own the car clear and free. For if Rick did not make his payments, the car could be taken away from him. But if Rick received the car as a free gift, he would not have to work at a particular job so as to be able to afford to pay off that car. The car would never truly be his until he paid off the loan if the car was not a free gift. But if the car was a free gift, Rick would only need to sell a thing here or there and or do an odd job every once in a while to afford to maintain the car or do "works of responsibility" in keeping that car as a free gift that was given to him. Rick could rest in owning the car and not worry about the bank taking it away from him if he forfeited on making the payments if he lost his job. So that is the difference between "earning salvation" vs. "resting in the gift of God's grace and in doing works of responsibility so as to maintain that gift."
Knowing this truth will help you to understand what Paul meant in Romans 4:4 when he said, "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." For Paul was trying to fight against the false heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism." (See: Galatians 2:3, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:5, 1 Corinthians 7:18-19, Romans 2:28-29, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Acts of the Apostles 21:21. Also see: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24) (Note: Hover your cursor over the above verses to check them out). So when Paul talked about the "Law" he was referencing the Old Law (the old contract of the 613 laws of Moses) and works alone salvationism that did not include God's grace; Paul was not referring to the commands of Jesus and His followers. So yes, we are saved by God's grace and obedience to the faith. But it would be "works of responsibility" in possessing the free gift and it would not be: "earning salvation."
You said:
Not a gift. He is part of the Godhead.
Acts of the Apostles 2:38 clearly says that the Holy Ghost is a gift.
Oh, and yes; I believe in the Trinity. That God exists as three distinct persons and yet He is one God. But I believe that a person can be filled by Jesus or the Living Word (the Logos) and not have the INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit yet. In some way, they are connected to the Holy Spirit by way of the Godhead, but it would not be an indwelling entirely of the Holy Spirit. All men through out all time were saved by abiding in Jesus Christ. For we learn that the fathers (the Israelites) who crossed through the red sea had drank of that Rock and that Rock was Christ (1 Corinthians 10:1-4). For there is no other name under Heaven whereby we can be saved (Acts of the Apostles 4:12). The 12 disciples had to have dwelled in Jesus in order to have life. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). The disciples had the Spirit working among them, but they did not have the dwelling of the Holy Spirit yet until Christ breathed the Spirit upon them.
You said:
Ministry doesn't involve with governments.
I believe governments (or administrating or organizing) of the fellowship of Christians is a gift.
1 Corinthians 12:28-31 says,
28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29
Are all apostles?
are all prophets?
are all teachers?
are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."
They organize so as to fellowship and to then go out and then do ministry two by two (usually directly to people's houses, or by preaching to a crowd in a town).
All gifts are a part of the body; But not all gifts are for today.
Jason0047 said:
1. Gifts of Healing,
2. Working of Miracles,
3. Tongues
You said:
Here are the Gifts (clearly mentioned) that are not in operation today
Yes, any words in red means that it is not operation on my list. So we agree at this point.
Jason0047 said:
4. Interpretation of Tongues
You said:
I see Interpretation of Tongues as going hand in hand with Tongues (Which is the speaking of foreign languages). But I would need to test to see if some believer out there is genuinely operating in this way and has correct doctrine.
Jason0047 said:
Word of Wisdom.
7. Word of Knowledge.
You said:
I thought that initially myself, but after seeing another poster suggest that they were not in operation, it dawned on me that they were correct. These were new words of knowledge or new words of wisdom so as to form new Scripture (i.e. the New Testament). This was not the interpretation or explanation of the existing Word we have (i.e. the Bible).
You said:
No they are not gifts. They are the fruit of the Spirit that we should cultivate for salvation
When I first accepted Christ as my Savior, I had a love, joy, and peace like I had never known before. So yes, I would say that they are gifts as a part of possessing the Holy Spirit. For I did not have these fruits before. They were new gifts to me in my life.
You said:
A must for the ministry, not gifted
I initially thought that way myself, but in Matthew 19 (we learn): That when Jesus said that is is hard for a rich man to be saved, and the disciples asked, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus said with man this is impossible, but with GOD all things are possible.
Meaning, GOD can work in a person to forsake their worldly possessions.
Help from the Holy Spirit not a gift.
It is the gift of a person helping others. See 1 Corinthians 12:28-31.
You said:
No, they continue guide the true believers in their path of perfection
Not sure what you are in disagreement about here.
Anyways, may God bless you.