How do you : "Fall from Grace"

[5thKingdom]

.
ON DECEMBER 22
Brightfame52 said: ↑

To fall from grace. Its to at one time profess that all of your salvation was conditioned on the Sovereign Grace of God in Christ, to change your profession to now saying that in some way, your salvation is conditioned upon man.

ON DECEMBER 23
5thKingdom said: ↑

And what specific SCRIPTURE teaches such a thing?
Or is that your "interpretation"... and, if so, what
Scripture do you THINK teaches such a doctrine?
Please provide chapter and verse.

ON JANUARY 9
Brightfame52 SAID:

Yes its my understanding. I dont believe a saved person can fall from grace, a person who is saved by grace cant fall from grace. Do you believe a person can lose their Salvation from and by Grace?

(1) First you gave your DEFINITION of falling from Grace:
To change your profession/testimony from a Sovereign Grace Gospel
to a "gospel" based on the works of man.


(2) I asked you what SCRIPTURE teaches that as a DEFINITION
of falling from Grace... or, if it's just your "interpretation" of Scripture
which Scripture do you THINK teaches that as the DEFINITION.
I clearly asked you to provide chapter and verse.


(3) You respond saying the DEFINITION is what you "understand".
(but you provide NO SCRIPTURE as I asked) and then you DEFLECT
to a different issue... whether a person can or can't fall from Grace.


I am still waiting for you to provide some SCRIPTURE to support
your DEFINITION that "Falling from Grace" is changing your
profession/testimony from a Sovereign Grace Gospel to
a works "gospel"... what SCRIPTURE supports that
DEFINITION of "Falling from Grace"?


After you have answered MY question about what Scripture
supports your DEFINITION of "Falling from Grace" then
I will be glad to answer a question from you. It is not
a "conversation" when you ignore my words and
DEFLECT to a different issue.


Jim

 

[Brightfame52]

.
ON DECEMBER 22
Brightfame52 said: ↑




ON DECEMBER 23
5thKingdom said: ↑




ON JANUARY 9
Brightfame52 SAID:





(1) First you gave your DEFINITION of falling from Grace:
To change your profession/testimony from a Sovereign Grace Gospel
to a "gospel" based on the works of man.


(2) I asked you what SCRIPTURE teaches that as a DEFINITION
of falling from Grace... or, if it's just your "interpretation" of Scripture
which Scripture do you THINK teaches that as the DEFINITION.
I clearly asked you to provide chapter and verse.


(3) You respond saying the DEFINITION is what you "understand".
(but you provide NO SCRIPTURE as I asked) and then you DEFLECT
to a different issue... whether a person can or can't fall from Grace.


I am still waiting for you to provide some SCRIPTURE to support
your DEFINITION that "Falling from Grace" is changing your
profession/testimony from a Sovereign Grace Gospel to
a works "gospel"... what SCRIPTURE supports that
DEFINITION of "Falling from Grace"?


After you have answered MY question about what Scripture
supports your DEFINITION of "Falling from Grace" then
I will be glad to answer a question from you. It is not
a "conversation" when you ignore my words and
DEFLECT to a different issue.


Jim

Yes that's correct. I believe fallen from grace is to basically apostatize from truth, like when scripture says Luke 8:13

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

They never had root in themselves Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

1 Tim 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Thats what I base my view on, you can take it or leave it.

Now do you believe a person can lose salvation ? What do you believe fallen from grace means ?

 

[5thKingdom]

Yes that's correct. I believe fallen from grace is to basically apostatize from truth, like when scripture says Luke 8:13

First you said that "falling from grace" was when someone
professed the Gospel of Sovereign Grace and THEN began
to believe in a "works" gospel of salvation by man.

To fall from grace. Its to at one time profess that all of your salvation was conditioned on the Sovereign Grace of God in Christ, to change your profession to now saying that in some way, your salvation is conditioned upon man.

Now you are saying "falling from grace" is demonstrated
in passages like Luke 8:13. But passages like Luke 8:13 have
NOTHING TO DO with changing our profession/testimony from
a Gospel of Grace to a "gospel" of works.


Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear,
receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for
a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


The passages you offer have nothing to do with CHANGING
from a monergistic Gospel of Grace (the True Gospel of the Bible)
to a synergistic "gospel" (a false "gospel" based on man's works)

... none of these verses (Luke 8:13 or Matthew 13:20-21) talk
about believing in a "works gospel".... instead, they talk about
rejecting the Gospel altogether.

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. They never had root in themselves Matt 13:20-21

Secondly, you very clearly said that you do not believe it is possible
for someone who is saved - to later LOSE that salvation.
In post #80 you said:

Yes its my understanding. I dont believe a saved person can fall from grace, a person who is saved by grace cant fall from grace. Do you believe a person can lose their Salvation from and by Grace?

So WHICH IS IT?
Can a person who is saved (regenerated, "indwelt", born again)
ever LOSE that salvation as Luke 8:13 and Matthew 13:20-21 seem to teach? Or, were those people in Luke 8 and Matthew 13 never REALLY saved at all?


Some will say... but the passage says "they believed for a while".
But Scripture also says Satan and the Demons "believe"... and
they KNOW there is a time when Jesus will "torment them",
yet nobody claims Satan and the Demons are saved.
So "believing" Jesus is the Son of God does NOT
mean men (or Satan or demons) are saved.


Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:
the devils also believe, and tremble.


Mat 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us
before the time?


Mat 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said,
If thou be the Son of God, command that these
stones be made bread.


Mat 4:6
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:
and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time
thou dash thy foot against a stone.


Mat 4:8-9
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain,
and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory
of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee,
if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

1 Tim 4:1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

First, you need to remember (according to Jesus) the church
consists of BOTH saved "wheat" sown by God and destined to
eternal life AND unsaved "tares" sown by Satan and destined to
the same fire prepared for Satan [Mat 25:41]


So, not only should we EXPECT some of the unsaved "tares"
to "fall away"... we are PROMISED that would happen to SHOW
they were never part of "us" [saved "wheat"]


1Jn 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued
with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Thats what I base my view on, you can take it or leave it.

I suggest that is a bad habit... saying "that's what I believe".
What you or I believe means nothing. The only measure of
Biblical Truth is harmony of ALL RELATED Scripture... it is
what the BIBLE teaches that matters, not what we believe.


In fact the Bible PROMISES that MOST people in the church
are unsaved "tares"... so we should EXPECT most "Christians"
to preach false doctrines. And that is what we see today as 95%
of Protestants (100% of Catholics) preach a gospel of "works".


And, for you to say "that's what I base my view on" (that some
who "believe" later "fall away" is contradictory to your "view"
that those who are saved (believe) cannot fall away.
So you have a problem with contradicting doctrines.

Now do you believe a person can lose salvation ? What do you believe fallen from grace means ?

No, it is not possible for someone who is REALLY saved
(regenerated, "indwelt", born-again) to ever LOSE their
salvation because:


(1) Jesus PROMISED [Jn 6] that all the Father gives Him
"shall come" to Him and He would lost NONE of them and


(2) Jesus PROMISED that those He saves (the elect) are given
"eternal life"... you cannot LOSE what is "eternal"... that would
be a contradiction in terms.

(3) Romans 8 PROMISED the elect have the "indwelling"
Holy Spirit as an "ernest" of their future complete adoption, when
we receive our incorruptible spiritual body. The salvation process
begins with us being "called" and "indwelt" (regenerated) but that
is only our SOUL being translated from Death to Life... the process
of our salvation is not complete until we receive our spiritual bodies
that are incorruptible and eternal.


Jim

 

[Brightfame52]

5th king

No, it is not possible for someone who is REALLY saved
(regenerated, "indwelt", born-again) to ever LOSE their
salvation because:

Thats my point. So one who has fallen grace merely fell from a profession of grace salvation. All these other comments of yours wasnt even necessary.

 

[Butterball1]

So........IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

See, this faith corrupted person can't SEE that you can't be more saved than you are, when you are born again....and remain so.
They can't SEE this, because their mind is blinded to this truth, as that is the devil's ability to cause this, by building a stronghold in their mind that is a subverting of real faith.

Salvation is COMPLETED by Jesus and given as a GIFT : "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its not to be completed, its to be received.
The mind blinded faith corrupted, can't SEE this, as this eternal truth has become veiled to them, as this is how the Law that they are trying to maintain to "stay saved", has blinded them.
Its Satan using a person's self righteousness to cause this mind blinded stronghold.

This Legalist has no FAITH anymore that Salvation is ACCOMPLISHED......
They have no enlightenment regarding why all their sins are dealt with and why they are already in the Kingdom of God and that Salvation is a completed Atonement.
Instead they are trying to both keep it and complete it., and that is how you reject Grace, misunderstand Grace, and Fall from it.

A person who has become .."im doing this or im not to do that"..and if i keep THAT worked out i end up in heaven, but if i don't then im lost"""""" this person cannot SEE that they are deceived and are obsessed with self saving, and are not really Trusting Christ any longer to get them in to Heaven.
"Fallen from Grace".

Here is the Spiritual SUBVERSION:
= The Devil has them believing that their Working/Enduring their way into heaven, is to Trust Christ.
So, that is how upside down and subverted their faith has become... They actually BELIEVE that self saving, enduring, self effort, is to trust in Christ, and its difficult to break this stronghold, because its so invested in pride and self righteousness and spiritual deception.

So, this person, is the "i can lose my salvation, i can commit the unpardonable sin", "I have now become a teacher of the gospel of works."",, as i have been deceived into BELIEVING as my FAITH....that the self effort of ENDURING , which is a SELF EFFORT....which is a WORK, is going to keep me saved.. is going to get me into Heaven... and if i dont do this, then i will not stay saved, and i will not go to heaven."""
This means that by turning from TRUST that Christ gets you into heaven, you have turned to yourself, to ENDURE, to commandment keep.... as your Cross that decides if you go to heaven or not.
Thats LEGALISM. Thats SELF Saving.

So, all self saving, is like this.. Its all subverted faith... falling from Grace...and into a mental stronghold whereby you are now trusting in what you do to try to get yourself into heaven, instead of ONLY Trusting in what Christ has done, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross," to get you into heaven.. and maintain your RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See, its all about BELIEVING , = "WHAT GETS ME INTO HEAVEN".... and when a person has lost sight of the Truth..., then they are faith subverted because they have a Mental STRONGHOLD that is their spiritual blindness, and this is to "fall from Grace".
Its to exist in that spiritual blindness as your actual Faith.
And if you are there, you can't SEE it.

THE "fallen from Grace....who is the "enduring" worker, the "commandment keeper", the "torah keeper" the "holding unto my faith as my salvation" keeper......all of these are the same deceptive STRONGHOLD.......its all trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, trying to keep yourself saved..= by whatever you think gets it done that YOU ARE TO DO = that you believe accomplishes this end result.
Understand, that whatever you are trusting in to get you into heaven is now your savior, and if you believe that you can lose your salvation, then this means you not actually Trusting in Jesus to keep you saved.
You are actually contradicting Grace, and are in opposition to this verse, which is to literally be in opposition to the Cross.
Philippians 1:6

Galatians 5:4 "Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace."

The verb tense would show they were already severed from Christ and already fallen from grace. Logically one cannot be severed from what he was never a part of nor can one fall from something he never had. So the "not really saved" excuse cannot be applied here.

Therefore those Galatians must have been in Christ and grace.....grace is only conditionally found in Christ - 2 Timothy 2:1).

What happned to where those Christians in Galatia become severed from Christ therefore fallen from grace. There were some Christians in Galatia who allowed false, Judaizing teachers lead them away from Christ NT that teaches jutification by grace and faith back to the law of Moses that required the work of sinless perfect law keeping to be justified.

Paul shows those Galatians to be justified by the OT law of Moses, they would be a debtor to keep all of it ...."the whole law" (Galatians 5:3) and just one sin would bring the curse of the law upon them (Galatians 3:10) for not keeping all things in it perfectly. Yet the Jews under the OT law could not keep it perfectly therefore could not be justified by that OT law (Galatians 3:11).

Paul goes on to say "and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them." (Galatians 3:12). It seems kind of odd that Paul says the "law is not of faith" when there were those, as David, who had faith. Paul's point is that under the OT law, faith was not how one was justified for the OT law required strict, flawless perfect law keeping to be justified, that is, "he that doeth them (all the OT laws) shall live in them". Under the OT law one could have all the faith in the world but when one broke the first law he then came under curse of the law. The OT law showed no mercy, it just condemned those that break it.

So when those Galatians left the NT of Christ to go back to the OT law they had quit obeying the truth...." Ye were running well; who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth? " (Galatians 5:7). This verse does NOT say they had cast aside their faith and quit believing in Christ. But by going back to the OT they had quit obeying the things within the NT, quit obeying the things taught them by the Apostles. As those in Thyatira were required to continue to keep Christ's works (Revelation 2:26) as those in Ephesus who had quit doing the first works and were also fallen, (Revelation 2:5). The Galatians 'faith only" in Christ did them no good apart from "obeying the truth".

Therefore obedience to the truth, to the NT of Christ IS necessary in being saved, while the flawless works required of the OT law and works of merit cannot save.

 

[5thKingdom]

Thats my point. So one who has fallen grace merely fell from a profession of grace salvation. All these other comments of yours wasnt even necessary.

No... having a "profession or testimony" of being saved
does NOT mean anything.

To HAVE Grace means you are elect and regenerated/born again
or "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit. Anyone who is "indwelt" has
already been "adopted" as sons of God and cannot
"fall" from that adoption.

To PROFESS you have grace means absolutely nothing
so to later not PROFESS you have grace also means nothing.

For someone to "fall from grace" they would have to LOSE
the "indwelling" Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that is not possible.

Bottom Line:
You DEFINITION of "falling from grace" was not Biblical because
(as already stated) changing your PROFESSION means nothing.
You need not argue about this... you are only arguing against
the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that "falling from
grace" is changing your PROFESSION or TESTIMONY.

Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

Galatians 5:4 "Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace."

You skipped the CONTEXT of the verse.
It is talking about those who sought salvation through the law,
specifically through circumcision.


Gal 5:3-4
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised,
that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become
of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law;
ye are fallen from grace.


Paul does not say they HAD Grace (were "indwelt") instead
he says they have "fallen from grace", meaning they have
rejected the WAY to find Grace.


If you teach they HAD GRACE (where "indwelt")
and they LOST that "indwelling" Holy Spirit, then you
teach the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught in John 6 and
you teach the OPPOSITE of what Romans 8 promises.


Before you can pretend to have found Biblical Truth you must
be able to harmonize your "theory" with ALL RELATED Scripture
and, in this case, your theory contradicts Jesus and many verses.

The verb tense would show they were already severed from Christ and already fallen from grace.

That is correct... they were severed from Christ
and they were severed from Grace


Let me give you an analogy to help you understand.
When someone suddenly starts going to church and hearing
the Gospel... they are coming toward the Grace of God. That
does NOT mean they are saved, only that they are hearing the
means of salvation. When that person suddenly LEAVES the church
and continues his worldly ways, that person is "severed from Christ"
and they have "fallen away" from Grace (because Grace only
comes from hearing the Gospel of Christ).


This reality is taught in MANY OTHER Scriptures:

Logically one cannot be severed from what he was never a part of nor can one fall from something he never had. So the "not really saved" excuse cannot be applied here.

You "logic" is man-made doctrines of delusion.
As shown above - unsaved men "fall away from Grace" every time
they leave the church and Gospel. Remember, MANY (MOST)
who hear the Gospel are not saved, but they are in the
POSITION to be saved by being in the church.


So the Galatians had access to the Gospel which BRINGS
Grace (the "indwelling" Holy Spirit) but that does not mean
they were saved ("indwelt") when hearing the Gospel. And
when they DESIGN THEIR OWN GOSPEL OF WORKS, it is like
leaving the church and Gospel and Grace... they suddenly
"sever" themselves from the only MEANS of salvation.


Also remember that Jesus PROMISED that ALL (every man)
that God gives to Him is "indwelt" with the Holy Spirit and
HAS eternal life. Jesus PROMISED He would lose NONE.


Your theory makes Jesus a LIAR.


To support your false "theory" you would have to be able to show
that someone who was "indwelt" with the Holy Spirit could LOSE
that "indwelling" Spirit... and Romans 8 specifically says that
can never happen. So THAT is the "logic" of Scripture.
Man-made "logic" means nothing.

Therefore those Galatians must have been in Christ and grace.....grace is only conditionally found in Christ - 2 Timothy 2:1).

2 Timothy 2:1 says NOTHING about those being "indwelt"
with the Holy Spirit then LOSING that Holy Spirit which,
(Romans 8 teaches) is the sign of our "adoption".


Maybe you meant to cite another verse.
But the one you cited does NOT support your argument.


2Ti 2:1-2
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

What happned to where those Christians in Galatia become severed from Christ therefore fallen from grace.

Yes, that is true. They were severed from Christ because they
were trusting in WORKS. They were severed from Grace because
they had "fallen away" from the True Gospel and were designing
their own "gospel" (or works). That does NOT mean that they
were SAVED ("indwelt")... you have ADDED that to the TEXT.


Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Listen... this is very easy to settle.
Just find ONE VERSE in the Bible that teaches men who are
"indwelt" with the Holy Spirit can LOSE that "indwelling" Spirit.
But you will NEVER find such a verse because it does not exist.


The verse you are using (Gal 5:4) in NO WAY teaches those
men were already "indwelt"... as shown above, it teaches
they were "severed" or "falling away" from the Truth. We see
the SAME THING happen every time someone starts going
to church (where they can FIND Grace) and then decides to
NOT go to church... they are being "severed" or "falling away"
from the ONLY PLACE that they can ever FIND GRACE.


Remember, if you reply, don't send your "opinions" or "logic"
simply send ONE VERSE that says someone who is "indwelt"
can LOSE that "indwelling" Holy Spirit. Fair enough?


Jim

 

[garee]

That is correct... they were severed from Christ
and they were severed from Grace

It was grace according to His great mercy that drew us towards our Father giving his His understanding to believe. . . the hearing of faith .Not our understanding without mixing in His together the load is made lighter.

Christians can no more be severed from the law that kills revealing the whole of mankind falls short of the glory of our unseen Holy Father then they could be severed from the work the law of faith. They work together as one perfect law. Not in part but again the perfect. The will and power to perform the good pleasure of one God .As the Son walking in agreement with the Father said. . I and my father are one .

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

The law of works the law of DEATH

The law of faith. the law of NEW a spirit the breath of LIFE.

 

[Butterball1]

You skipped the CONTEXT of the verse.
It is talking about those who sought salvation through the law,
specifically through circumcision.


Gal 5:3-4
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised,
that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become
of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law;
ye are fallen from grace.

I clearly pointed out how some Christians in Galatia left the NT gospel of Christ and returned back to the OT law thinking they could be justified by that OT law. The OT law required the work of strict, flawless law keeping to be justified and of course those Galatians would not be able to keep it perfectly.

Paul does not say they HAD Grace (were "indwelt") instead
he says they have "fallen from grace", meaning they have
rejected the WAY to find Grace.


If you teach they HAD GRACE (where "indwelt")
and they LOST that "indwelling" Holy Spirit, then you
teach the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught in John 6 and
you teach the OPPOSITE of what Romans 8 promises.


Before you can pretend to have found Biblical Truth you must
be able to harmonize your "theory" with ALL RELATED Scripture
and, in this case, your theory contradicts Jesus and many verses.


That is correct... they were severed from Christ
and they were severed from Grace

Grace is found in Christ, 2 Timothy 2:1. SO to be severed from Christ and fall from grace means that must have once been in Christ therefore in grace (saved state) but fell from from Christ and grace to a lost state.
Logically one cannot be severed from, cut offf from what they were not a part of.


Compare and contrast:
Paul said they had fallen from grace
You say they had rejected the way to find grace.

In order to try and protect the false teaching of eternal security, some just rewrite verses and put words in Paul's mouth he did not say.

Let me give you an analogy to help you understand.
When someone suddenly starts going to church and hearing
the Gospel... they are coming toward the Grace of God. That
does NOT mean they are saved, only that they are hearing the
means of salvation. When that person suddenly LEAVES the church
and continues his worldly ways, that person is "severed from Christ"
and they have "fallen away" from Grace (because Grace only
comes from hearing the Gospel of Christ).

Above you desribe one who was never saved, never in Christ, never in grace therefore the person you describe above cannot be severed from Christ or fall from grace for again he was never in Christ, never in grace.

Yet Paul, unlike you, is speaking of those who were saved, those who were in Christ, in grace which is a saved state. No example in the NT of anyone being in Christ, in grace but lost. If being in Christ, in grace is not salvation then there must be no such thing as salvation.

So again to be severed from Christ and fall from grace logically implies they were saved for one cannot be severed from Christ if he was never in Christ.

This reality is taught in MANY OTHER Scriptures:

You "logic" is man-made doctrines of delusion.
As shown above - unsaved men "fall away from Grace" every time
they leave the church and Gospel. Remember, MANY (MOST)
who hear the Gospel are not saved, but they are in the
POSITION to be saved by being in the church.

You post "unsaved men 'fall away from grace"

Again, there is no such thing as unsaved men in grace for being in grace IS a saved state. Again, where in the NT are those spoken of being in Christ, in grace but yet lost?
Being in Christ, in grace is a saved state so falling from Christ/grace is falling from a saved state to a lost state.

So the Galatians had access to the Gospel which BRINGS
Grace (the "indwelling" Holy Spirit) but that does not mean
they were saved ("indwelt") when hearing the Gospel. And
when they DESIGN THEIR OWN GOSPEL OF WORKS, it is like
leaving the church and Gospel and Grace... they suddenly
"sever" themselves from the only MEANS of salvation.

You continue to try and protect your false pet doctrine by claiming thos Galatians were never really in grace, never really saved. Again, they could not fall from grace if they were never rally in grace.

How can they be severed from Christ if they were never part of Christ. How can one sever a limb from a tree if that limb was never a part of that tree.

Also remember that Jesus PROMISED that ALL (every man)
that God gives to Him is "indwelt" with the Holy Spirit and
HAS eternal life. Jesus PROMISED He would lose NONE.


Your theory makes Jesus a LIAR.

You just rewrote Galatains 5 to force it to fit your pet theologies.

To support your false "theory" you would have to be able to show
that someone who was "indwelt" with the Holy Spirit could LOSE
that "indwelling" Spirit... and Romans 8 specifically says that
can never happen. So THAT is the "logic" of Scripture.
Man-made "logic" means nothing.





2 Timothy 2:1 says NOTHING about those being "indwelt"
with the Holy Spirit then LOSING that Holy Spirit which,
(Romans 8 teaches) is the sign of our "adoption".


Maybe you meant to cite another verse.
But the one you cited does NOT support your argument.


2Ti 2:1-2
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Jn 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Does God just arbitrarily, unconditionally give men to Christ? No, those that are given to Christ are the ones who conditionally "seeth" and believeth" per John 6:40. Both verbs seeth and believeth are in the present tense, so those whom God gives to Christ are those who conditionally have an lifelong ongoing, sustained seeing and believing. So those that conditionally continue to see and believe will in no wise be cast out.

Judas was one whom God gave to Christ (John 17:6). Christ goes on to say " I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

This could not be said of Judas if he was never given to Christ and never kept by Christ. If you gave me 12 different colored pencils to keep, then you return to get your 12 pencils and I say they are all here but for the red one, I could not say that unless I was first given the red one to hold and keep.

Judas did not continue to see and believe Christ so he would not be of those that Christ would not lose. Again the ones Christ would not lose are the ones that have an ongoing, sustained seeing and believing. Christ NEVER promised to keep those that quit seeking and believing Him.

John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out," Those who come to Christ and CONTINUE come to Christ will not be cast out. Again, Christ never promised to keep those that quit coming to Him.

Yes, that is true. They were severed from Christ because they
were trusting in WORKS. They were severed from Grace because
they had "fallen away" from the True Gospel and were designing
their own "gospel" (or works). That does NOT mean that they
were SAVED ("indwelt")... you have ADDED that to the TEXT.


Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

They became lost for they left the NT, they quit obeying the truth Galatians 3:1; Galatians 5:7. NT salvation requires obedience to Christ's words, obedience to truth. But those Galatians left the NT, quit obeying NT truths and returned back to the OT that required the work of flawless sinless perfect law keeping. This is what Paul means in Romans 11:6 by "no more of works". If one could work to keep the law perfectly, flawlessly then he would have no sin therefore have no need for grace.

Even though the OT law required sinless flawless law keeping, God does not for God requires a simple obedient faith in doing what He says. Paul shows in Romans 6 who God's people were, in the OT God's people were those who OBEYED God by not bowing to Baal, Romans 11:4. And at this present time (under the NT dispensation) those who are God's people are those who OBEY the NT gospel (election of grace). THose Jews who obeyed God in Acts 2 by repenting and being baptized made up this "remnant".

The fatal flaw of Calvinism is when Calvinism sees "no more of works" Romans 11:6 or "worketh not" ROmans 4:5 or "not of works" Ephesians 2:9, Calvinism wrongly ASSUMES these phrases eliminate ALL works of ALL kinds including obedience to God's will. Contextually NONE of these verses eliminate obedience to God's will but they do eliminate works of merit and the flawless perfect works required by the OT law. Calvinism pulls ROmans 11:6 out of context erroneouly making it eliminate all works including obedience while ignoring the rest of the context showing God's people has always been those who obey Him.

Listen... this is very easy to settle.
Just find ONE VERSE in the Bible that teaches men who are
"indwelt" with the Holy Spirit can LOSE that "indwelling" Spirit.
But you will NEVER find such a verse because it does not exist.

Not a single verse says such. But I see you trying "reform" verses to fit your preconcieved ideas.

In Matthew 10 Jesus is giving His 12 Apostles what some call the limited commission. Judas was among them and was one to who Christ spoke those words in Matt 10. Judas had an indwelling of the Holy Spirit where he could receive revelatory words from the Holy Spirit, Matthew 10:19-20, to do miracles Matthew 10:1. Receiving Judas would be the same as receiving Christ, Matthew 10:40. Twice, God is called the Father of Judas, Matthew 10:20,29.
But Judas became lost, fell from grace.

The verse you are using (Gal 5:4) in NO WAY teaches those
men were already "indwelt"... as shown above, it teaches
they were "severed" or "falling away" from the Truth. We see
the SAME THING happen every time someone starts going
to church (where they can FIND Grace) and then decides to
NOT go to church... they are being "severed" or "falling away"
from the ONLY PLACE that they can ever FIND GRACE.


Remember, if you reply, don't send your "opinions" or "logic"
simply send ONE VERSE that says someone who is "indwelt"
can LOSE that "indwelling" Holy Spirit. Fair enough?


Jim

No, those in Galatia were saved being in Christ/grace and became lost falling from Christ. You simply are creating contradictions among verses. You tried to rewrite what Paul said in trying convince us that those who are in Christ and in grace are not really saved when in fact being in Christ, in grace is what salvation is all about.

 

[5thKingdom]

It was grace according to His great mercy that drew us

What in the WORLD are you talking about?
Jesus explained very clearly that the church consists of BOTH
saved "wheat" sown by God AND unsaved "tares" sown by
Satan and destined to the same fire as Satan.


So... when you say
"it was grace according to His great mercy that drew us..."
clearly, you are NOT talking about the unsaved "tares" in the church.
You are NOT talking about the MAJORITY of people calling themself
"Christian".


If you do not understand this BASIC and ESSENTIAL
doctrine of the Gospel... you cannot understand the Gospel.


You continue to forget the Bible separates everyone in the world
into one of three (3) groups:


(1) saved "wheat" in the church sown by God
(2) unsaved "tares" in the church sown by Satan
(3) all the lost souls OUTSIDE of the church


So... WHENEVER you say the words "us" or "we"
you MUST discern (and specify) WHICH GROUP is the
CONTEXT of that verse. Otherwise you cannot hope to
ever understand the MEANING of a passage.


You must FIRST discern the CONTEXT
(WHO is the verse talking about)


Those who "fall away" are (obviously) part of the unsaved "tares"
sown by Satan. WHY you ask?


Because Jesus PROMISED of all the Father "draws" to Him,
He will lose NONE.


So... whenever your "theory" is that a saved "wheat" is lost,
you demonstrate your theory is not Biblical and not correct
because it contradicts Scripture.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

.
SO to be severed from Christ and fall from grace means that must have once been in Christ therefore in grace (saved state) but fell from from Christ and grace to a lost state.

OK... then you are saying Christ was a LIAR when He said:


Joh 6:44
NO MAN can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


And you are saying Jesus is a LIAR when He said:


Joh 6:37
ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


And you are saying Jesus is a LIAR when He said:


Joh 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.

Logically one cannot be severed from, cut offf from what they were not a part of.

You can keep talking about YOUR LOGIC...
or you can start to make your teachings HARMONIZE
with the Words of Christ. The choice is yours.
But Jesus was not a LIAR.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

I clearly pointed out how some Christians in Galatia left the NT gospel of Christ and returned back to the OT law thinking they could be justified by that OT law. The OT law required the work of strict, flawless law keeping to be justified and of course those Galatians would not be able to keep it perfectly.

And I am not disputing that some in Galatia were not saved
and wanted a salvation plan of WORKS...

SO to be severed from Christ and fall from grace means that must have once been in Christ

No, you ADDED that "interpretation" to the TEXT.
I already explained to you that those who are unsaved
who decide to go to church and then decide to stop going...
they are "severed" from Christ and Grace. That does NOT mean
they were "indwelt"... you are ADDING to Scripture.

You post "unsaved men 'fall away from grace"
Again, there is no such thing as unsaved men in grace

Slow down buddy, the TEXT does not say they were "in Grace"
and it does not say they were "in Christ". You ADDED that part.


Instead, the TEXT only says they were "severed" from Christ
and Grace... which is EXACTLY what happens EVERY TIME
someone decides to leave the church. Read 1 Jn 2:19 (below)


No, tell me, does ANY SAINT ever decide to leave the church?
Of course not. The FACT that they "went out" from the church
demonstrates they were NEVER PART of the "wheat". Or do you
not know of this Scripture?


1Jn_2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


This is the SAME as your verse in Galatians...
they "went out from us" [the wheat] because they were NOT
"of us". And them going out MAKES MANIFEST that they were
not "of us".

You continue to try and protect your false pet doctrine by claiming thos Galatians were never really in grace, never really saved. Again, they could not fall from grace if they were never rally in grace.

Read 1 Jn 2:19 (above) again and again and again...
until you finally UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT the Biblical doctrine
that those who "go out" from the church were NEVER saved...
which is PROVEN by the fact they "went out".


Listen, I asked you before...
Does any REAL SAINT ever forsake the church?
Why do you not answer that easy question?
Because it proves your "logic" to be delusion.

You just rewrote Galatains 5 to force it to fit your pet theologies.

No, you are pretending. I only explained why your "interpretation"
could not possibly be correct... because REAL SAINTS do not (ever)
forsake the church and the brethren... that is what unsaved "tares"
do... and that DEMONSTRATES they were not "of us".


Read 1 Jn 2:19 again, and again, and again...
until you can HARMONIZE your "logic" with that SCRIPTURE
you have already been proven (by Scripture) to be wrong.

Does God just arbitrarily, unconditionally give men to Christ?

No, God "chose" or "elected" who He would saved before
the foundation of the earth based ONLY on His Good Pleasure
and not on anything they would do in their lifetime. It is those
who God "elected" that He "calls".


Now, if you want to say God's "Good Pleasure" is "arbitrary"...
then you can say that. You can deny a Sovereign God as much
as you want... it does not make it Truth, in fact it contradicts
Biblical Truth.


Eph 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by
Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


Read Romans 8... it talks about the "arbitrary" election of God.
And it talks about how NONE can be lost... to it contradicts
your "logic" twice.


Rom 8:28-31
And we know that all things work together for good to them that
love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?


Note: the "us" in the passage above is the "wheat" in the church
but NOT the "tares"... you must be able to discern CONTEXT
before you can understand MEANING.

No, those that are given to Christ are the ones who conditionally "seeth" and believeth" per John 6:40.

Of course the PROBLEM with your "logic" is that the Bible tell us
(both in the OT and NT) that unregenerated men will NEVER
"seek God", no, not even one.


So again, your "logic" is contradicted by Scripture.
The ONLY men that are "given" to Christ are those who have
been "elected" before the world began and ALL OF THEM
"shall come" to Christ, and He will lose NONE. [Jn 6]


Now... WHY will all the elect "come" to Christ?
Because they have already been regenerated.
All good works are the RESULT of being regenerated
and NEVER the CAUSE of that regeneration.


In YOUR "gospel" men "seek God" and do "good works"
BEFORE they are regenerated.... that contradicts the Bible.

Judas was one whom God gave to Christ (John 17:6).

Of course there was a REASON for Judas being part of
the Apostles... do you know what that REASON was?
How can you offer an "informed opinion" when you
do not know that REASON (of course you cannot)

Judas had an indwelling of the Holy Spirit...

Really?
So you actually PRETEND that Judas had the Holy Spirit
BEFORE Pentecost?


You actually PRETEND that Judas had the Holy Spirit
BEFORE Christ was crucified and BEFORE any of the
other Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
You show again that you do not understand the Gospel.


Jim

 

[garee]

What in the WORLD are you talking about?
Jesus explained very clearly that the church consists of BOTH
saved "wheat" sown by God AND unsaved "tares" sown by
Satan and destined to the same fire as Satan.


So... when you say
"it was grace according to His great mercy that drew us..."
clearly, you are NOT talking about the unsaved "tares" in the church.
You are NOT talking about the MAJORITY of people calling themself
"Christian".

If you do not understand this BASIC and ESSENTIAL
doctrine of the Gospel... you cannot understand the Gospel.


You continue to forget the Bible separates everyone in the world
into one of three (3) groups:


(1) saved "wheat" in the church sown by God
(2) unsaved "tares" in the church sown by Satan
(3) all the lost souls OUTSIDE of the church


So... WHENEVER you say the words "us" or "we"
you MUST discern (and specify) WHICH GROUP is the
CONTEXT of that verse. Otherwise you cannot hope to
ever understand the MEANING of a passage.


You must FIRST discern the CONTEXT
(WHO is the verse talking about)


Those who "fall away" are (obviously) part of the unsaved "tares"
sown by Satan. WHY you ask?


Because Jesus PROMISED of all the Father "draws" to Him,
He will lose NONE.


So... whenever your "theory" is that a saved "wheat" is lost,
you demonstrate your theory is not Biblical and not correct
because it contradicts Scripture.


Jim

Hi thanks for the reply

Believing God is a work of God that he works in us to both will and empower us that have no power by which we could believe God not seen . There is no work we could do as declared to the apostles according to their query

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
.
The unsaved tare are not the Christians as those who had previously been elected to be saved from before the foundation of the world. The tares has no grace as non elected( tare).Sitting there hearing does not make them one of the elect elected from the foundation.

They are among the wheat but not of the us as those who do know personally of that work he works in us. Scripture defines the us in Christ, not the interpretation of the church .Many go out because they are not of the true us.

Wheat like other metaphors ( Milk, meat, corn etc.) are used in various parables to represents those who have tasted of the good things to come and believe the God who alone brings them into His fold of field .

Wheat does not crucify Christ over and over every time their conscience accuses them. The gospel satisfies their hunger for knowing God.

God's witness is greater than our corrupted conscience he know all things before the elect ask.

He always does the first works . It is the work of God working in us that we can believe in Him not seen.

 

[Palmfever]

Matt, 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower. "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. It was planted in his heart, but he didn’t understand what he heard.

"The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. " He heard it, understood it, and received it with joy.

And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. He heard, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth strangle it and it becomes unfruitful. You can not choke out something that is dead. Having life, It becomes unfruitful.

"And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." He produces fruit.

 

[Brightfame52]

Galatians 5:4 "Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace."

The verb tense would show they were already severed from Christ and already fallen from grace. Logically one cannot be severed from what he was never a part of nor can one fall from something he never had. So the "not really saved" excuse cannot be applied here.

Therefore those Galatians must have been in Christ and grace.....grace is only conditionally found in Christ - 2 Timothy 2:1).

What happned to where those Christians in Galatia become severed from Christ therefore fallen from grace. There were some Christians in Galatia who allowed false, Judaizing teachers lead them away from Christ NT that teaches jutification by grace and faith back to the law of Moses that required the work of sinless perfect law keeping to be justified.

Paul shows those Galatians to be justified by the OT law of Moses, they would be a debtor to keep all of it ...."the whole law" (Galatians 5:3) and just one sin would bring the curse of the law upon them (Galatians 3:10) for not keeping all things in it perfectly. Yet the Jews under the OT law could not keep it perfectly therefore could not be justified by that OT law (Galatians 3:11).

Paul goes on to say "and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them." (Galatians 3:12). It seems kind of odd that Paul says the "law is not of faith" when there were those, as David, who had faith. Paul's point is that under the OT law, faith was not how one was justified for the OT law required strict, flawless perfect law keeping to be justified, that is, "he that doeth them (all the OT laws) shall live in them". Under the OT law one could have all the faith in the world but when one broke the first law he then came under curse of the law. The OT law showed no mercy, it just condemned those that break it.

So when those Galatians left the NT of Christ to go back to the OT law they had quit obeying the truth...." Ye were running well; who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth? " (Galatians 5:7). This verse does NOT say they had cast aside their faith and quit believing in Christ. But by going back to the OT they had quit obeying the things within the NT, quit obeying the things taught them by the Apostles. As those in Thyatira were required to continue to keep Christ's works (Revelation 2:26) as those in Ephesus who had quit doing the first works and were also fallen, (Revelation 2:5). The Galatians 'faith only" in Christ did them no good apart from "obeying the truth".

Therefore obedience to the truth, to the NT of Christ IS necessary in being saved, while the flawless works required of the OT law and works of merit cannot save.

Obeying the Truth and obeying the Gospel are the same. Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom 2:8

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Gal 3:1

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Gal 5:7

Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

 

[Brightfame52]

5th king

No... having a "profession or testimony" of being saved
does NOT mean anything.

Of course not thats my point. Nevertheless many profess a testimony anyway.

To HAVE Grace means you are elect and regenerated/born again
or "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit. Anyone who is "indwelt" has
already been "adopted" as sons of God and cannot
"fall" from that adoption.

Agreed

To PROFESS you have grace means absolutely nothing
so to later not PROFESS you have grace also means nothing.

For someone to "fall from grace" they would have to LOSE
the "indwelling" Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that is not possible.

Agreed

Bottom Line:
You DEFINITION of "falling from grace" was not Biblical because
(as already stated) changing your PROFESSION means nothing.
You need not argue about this... you are only arguing against
the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that "falling from
grace" is changing your PROFESSION or TESTIMONY.

I believe you just like to hear yourself talk and be contentious.

You tell us, what is meant by fallen from grace ?

 

[garee]

Grace is found in Christ, 2 Timothy 2:1. SO to be severed from Christ and fall from grace means that must have once been in Christ therefore in grace (saved state) but fell from from Christ and grace to a lost state.
Logically one cannot be severed from, cut offf from what they were not a part of.


Compare and contrast:
Paul said they had fallen from grace
You say they had rejected the way to find grace.

In order to try and protect the false teaching of eternal security, some just rewrite verses and put words in Paul's mouth he did not say.

Falling from unmerited favor(grace) does no mean cut off from grace in respect to Christ work of faith or labor of his love. It would make the work of unmerited favor to no effect.

Grace is the outcome of the demonstration of Father and Son working together as one God to bring the peace of God . We have that powerful treasure in these earthen bodies of death but the power to perform His good will is never assumed that it is of us in any way shape or form. . . Assuming or wondering does despite the the fulness of His grace .The reward he freely gives to all who call upon His name .

Why would a person desire to do despite to the fulness of grace ? What's the hope?

Falling from grace is acting the fool .the fool has said there is no God in their heart . Christian do foolish things.

Born again Christians are given the power or hearing of faith needed to return to our first love( hearing God as he works in us) .Again if he has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it with the foolish ones..

Galatians 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Although we dare not call each other fools for no man can see into the heart of another .He call us foolish if we do harden our hearts in unbelief (no faith)

 

[Butterball1]

OK... then you are saying Christ was a LIAR when He said:


Joh 6:44
NO MAN can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


And you are saying Jesus is a LIAR when He said:


Joh 6:37
ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


And you are saying Jesus is a LIAR when He said:


Joh 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.





You can keep talking about YOUR LOGIC...
or you can start to make your teachings HARMONIZE
with the Words of Christ. The choice is yours.
But Jesus was not a LIAR.


Jim

I am saying YOU do not understand how the drawing works as John speaks about it.

Jn 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Jn 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

Comparing these two verses, it can be seen that the drawing is not done unconditionally, capriciously nor is it done apart from the word being taught heard and learned nor apart from man's free will in coming to Christ, John 6:44-45......simply put: God draws, men cometh unto Christ.

So those men who have been drawn by the word when they are taught, heard and learn then of their own free will "cometh unto Christ". The verb "cometh" is present tense denoting that the coming to Christ must be sustian, ongoing, life long. So as long as one conditionally comes to Christ and CONTINUES to come to Christ he will not be cast out. But those of their free will who choose to quit coming to Christ will be cast out. One of their free will chooses to come to Christ and one by that same volition can choose to quit coming to Christ. NO VERSE anywhere says Christ will UNconditionally save those who quit coming to Him.

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

One must CONDITIONALLY maintain a present tense, ongoing, sustained hearing and believing to have everlasting life. For if one quits hearing and believing then he will not have everlasting life but come into condemnation. Likewise if one quits coming to Christ, that is, quits hearing and believing he will not have everlasting life but come into condemnation.

 

[Butterball1]

And I am not disputing that some in Galatia were not saved
and wanted a salvation plan of WORKS...

You are denying ther facts that those Galatians went from being in a saved state but fell from it for they had quit obeying the truth of Christ's NT, (Galatians 3:1; Galatians 5:7) as taught them by Paul

No, you ADDED that "interpretation" to the TEXT.
I already explained to you that those who are unsaved
who decide to go to church and then decide to stop going...
they are "severed" from Christ and Grace. That does NOT mean
they were "indwelt"... you are ADDING to Scripture.

You keep dealing with this "indwelt" theory of yours that is not found in the context.

The facts given in the context was they had been severed from Christ and fallen from grace. LOGICALLY this means they must have been IN CHRIST and IN GRACE for again, one LOGICALLY cannot fall from Christ or fall from grace if one was never in Christ or in grace to begin with. THis can only mean that those Galatians when they were IN CHRIST AND IN GRACE were in a saved state.

THese facts and logic work against you so you use your "indwelt" theory to try and get around the facts. You have us think that being in Christ or in grace is NOT a saved state unless one is "indwelt" when the Bible says no su h thing at all. Being in CHrist and in grace is a saved state and you are adding you indwelt ida to the text to get around this simple fact.

How do you even know they were not "indwelt"? Where is the verse that says one can be in Christ and in grace yet not "indwelt"?

In Epheisans 5:18 Paul gives the COMMAND "be filled with the Spirit" From the context, being filled with the Spirit means DOING what the Spirit says to do. Therefore one can obey Paul's command to be filled with the SPirit by obeying what the Spirit says and that obedience is how one gets in Christ and His grace. For those Galatians to have been in Christ and in grace means they must have obeyed the SPirit, that is, were filled with the Spirit for having done what the Spirit requires one to do to be in Christ, in grace. It is impossible for one to ever be in Christ, be in grace by disobeying the Spirit's NT inspired word.
Yet they became severed from Christ and fell from grace for they quit obeying the Spirit, quit obeying Galatians 3:1; Galatians 5:7.

Slow down buddy, the TEXT does not say they were "in Grace"
and it does not say they were "in Christ". You ADDED that part.

Instead, the TEXT only says they were "severed" from Christ
and Grace... which is EXACTLY what happens EVERY TIME
someone decides to leave the church. Read 1 Jn 2:19 (below)

Again, the verse says they were severed from Christ and fell from grace. That logically implies they must have been in Christ to be severed from Him and be in grace to fall from grace.
If I told you that yesterday "I fell out of a tree". Just from that one simple statement one can logically determine that I must have been in that tree in order to fall from it. I certainly could not fall from that tree if I never got up in it.

 

[garee]

Comparing these two verses, it can be seen that the drawing is not done unconditionally, capriciously nor is it done apart from the word being taught heard and learned nor apart from man's free will in coming to Christ, John 6:44-45......simply put: God draws, men cometh unto Christ.

Free will would have to be defined . Free to do what or whose will? The food Jesus knew of. . . doing the will of another. (father) . . or that in which the disciples knew not.

Nothing good can come apart from the will of God Remember as informed in Job 23 .Our Holy Father is of one mind and always does whatsoever His own soul desires .Who could turn him? He repents or turns us, in that work of turning making our hearts soft, washing and renewing us with the water of his words or doctrines of God that fall like rain or dew upon the grass.