How do you : "Fall from Grace"

[FredVB]

"God is love and God wants to forgive, and initiates what is needed for God's creatures to be in relationship with God, while some are staying stuck in their ways and will not respond to God anyway. The atonement for redemption is necessary and it was always in God's plan, as God's will is not that any perish but that all come to repentance in which they may be brought to redemption in Christ."

I am generally paraphrasing in my words certain passages in scriptures.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I see some respond to this at times with telling me I miss the context, but I certainly don't. I have read through this plenty of times, I see what is said in the context and understand it.

Scoffers will come in the last days, in other words, "skeptics" (miscalled as such when they don't really look at any evidence that would conflict with their own ideas), doubters, and others who disbelieve. They will satisfy their own desires with their ideas. Some such would say that there shouldn't be faith and hope of Christ's coming for us, all things just continue as they are, they always have, after all.

It is purposely disregarded that the global catastrophe with the worldwide flood was destructive to everything in the world then. Likewise there is coming destruction to this world with fire that will be in judgment for the unrepented wickedness among humanity against Yahweh the one God, and against God's creation. But Yahweh is patient in the extreme, a thousand years making no more difference than a day with God, who would have opportunity for all, which fairness, with love and compassion which is not limited, involves.

Just as when the Lord Jesus will come for taking those of us who are believers suddenly and unexpectedly, so ultimately when all the world will be exposed to the intense heat to do away with all the corrupted creation remaining to have it replaced with new creation without any corruption, in which those who have repented and are redeemed, and the innocent, are included, it will be sudden and unexpected.

We should be earnest and diligent for Yahweh to find purity without compromise, living to be in peace. Yahweh is extremely patient and longsuffering, for the sake of salvation to those who would come to repentance, which Yahweh leads any to, which we should consider. We shouldn't consider what twists the meaning of scripture passages, to not be led astray.

Grow in grace and knowledge.

 

[JLB777]

So........IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

See, this faith corrupted person can't SEE that you can't be more saved than you are, when you are born again....and remain so.
They can't SEE this, because their mind is blinded to this truth, as that is the devil's ability to cause this, by building a stronghold in their mind that is a subverting of real faith.

Salvation is COMPLETED by Jesus and given as a GIFT : "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its not to be completed, its to be received.
The mind blinded faith corrupted, can't SEE this, as this eternal truth has become veiled to them, as this is how the Law that they are trying to maintain to "stay saved", has blinded them.
Its Satan using a person's self righteousness to cause this mind blinded stronghold.

This Legalist has no FAITH anymore that Salvation is ACCOMPLISHED......
They have no enlightenment regarding why all their sins are dealt with and why they are already in the Kingdom of God and that Salvation is a completed Atonement.
Instead they are trying to both keep it and complete it., and that is how you reject Grace, misunderstand Grace, and Fall from it.

A person who has become .."im doing this or im not to do that"..and if i keep THAT worked out i end up in heaven, but if i don't then im lost"""""" this person cannot SEE that they are deceived and are obsessed with self saving, and are not really Trusting Christ any longer to get them in to Heaven.
"Fallen from Grace".

Here is the Spiritual SUBVERSION:
= The Devil has them believing that their Working/Enduring their way into heaven, is to Trust Christ.
So, that is how upside down and subverted their faith has become... They actually BELIEVE that self saving, enduring, self effort, is to trust in Christ, and its difficult to break this stronghold, because its so invested in pride and self righteousness and spiritual deception.

So, this person, is the "i can lose my salvation, i can commit the unpardonable sin", "I have now become a teacher of the gospel of works."",, as i have been deceived into BELIEVING as my FAITH....that the self effort of ENDURING , which is a SELF EFFORT....which is a WORK, is going to keep me saved.. is going to get me into Heaven... and if i dont do this, then i will not stay saved, and i will not go to heaven."""
This means that by turning from TRUST that Christ gets you into heaven, you have turned to yourself, to ENDURE, to commandment keep.... as your Cross that decides if you go to heaven or not.
Thats LEGALISM. Thats SELF Saving.

So, all self saving, is like this.. Its all subverted faith... falling from Grace...and into a mental stronghold whereby you are now trusting in what you do to try to get yourself into heaven, instead of ONLY Trusting in what Christ has done, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross," to get you into heaven.. and maintain your RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See, its all about BELIEVING , = "WHAT GETS ME INTO HEAVEN".... and when a person has lost sight of the Truth..., then they are faith subverted because they have a Mental STRONGHOLD that is their spiritual blindness, and this is to "fall from Grace".
Its to exist in that spiritual blindness as your actual Faith.
And if you are there, you can't SEE it.

THE "fallen from Grace....who is the "enduring" worker, the "commandment keeper", the "torah keeper" the "holding unto my faith as my salvation" keeper......all of these are the same deceptive STRONGHOLD.......its all trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, trying to keep yourself saved..= by whatever you think gets it done that YOU ARE TO DO = that you believe accomplishes this end result.
Understand, that whatever you are trusting in to get you into heaven is now your savior, and if you believe that you can lose your salvation, then this means you not actually Trusting in Jesus to keep you saved.
You are actually contradicting Grace, and are in opposition to this verse, which is to literally be in opposition to the Cross.
Philippians 1:6

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6

• Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Him”.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24






JLB

 

[Rapture Bound]

JLB777 stated [post #342],

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Him”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24."


My Reply :

Here's my take on the subject ...

1 John 3:9 and the Permanent Nature of the New Birth - Part 3 :


Reconciling 1 John 3:9 with 1 John 3:6 ...

English Standard Version - 1 John 3:9 :

"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed [abides] in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God."

English Standard Version - 1 John 3:6 :

"No one who [abides] in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

The Matter of Abiding in God :

Greek Interlinear - 1 John 3:9 - "for God's seed abides in him" :

seed of Him [sperma autou] in [en] him [autō] abides [menei]

Greek Interlinear 1 John 3:6 - "No one who abides in him keeps on sinning" :

Anyone [pas ho] in [en] Him [autō] abiding [menōn] not [ouch] sins [hamartanei]


In both 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 3:6 the root word used for abide/abiding is menó - Strong's Concordance #3306 :

menó: to stay, abide, remain
Original Word: μένω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: menó
Phonetic Spelling: (men'-o)
Definition: to stay, abide, remain
Usage: I remain, abide, stay, wait; with acc: I wait for, await.

As I have demonstrated in part 2 [ post #155 - below ] on my thread, 1 John 3:9 [as well as 1 John 3:7] tells us that all those born of God will not characteristically and habitually live in sin.

Can a genuine, blood-bought, regenerated believer forfeit their salvation?

This certainly does not hold true for any person who has not been born of God. The clear implication contained in 1 John 3:6 is that those who are not born of God do not know [and have never known] Him, they have never been implanted with [i.e. - regenerated by] God's seed ... the seed of Him ... the "sperma autou."

"no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him." [1 John 3:6(b) - ESV].

"anyone [pas ho] sinning [hamartanōn] not [ouch] has seen [heōraken] him [auton] nor [oude] has he known [egnōken] him [auoton]." [1 John 3:6(b) - Greek Interlinear].

The vital truth here, as it concerns the eternal security of the believer, is that only two groups of people are in view here ... [1] those who are born of God, and [2] those who are not born of God. All those counted among the first group will abide in God until the end of their earthly journeys [1 John 3:9]. It simply does not logically follow that any among the second group were at one time members of the first group - but then proceed to abandon their faith [thereby once again being counted among the second group] ... it is a logical fallacy.


Conflicting Perspectives :

So, once again we have come full circle to a recurring issue that is of paramount importance to realize and comprehend concerning the eternal security of the believer. Should we view an individual's abiding in God as a necessary condition in order to receive their Heavenly inheritance? ... or should we view their abiding as the inevitable effect or by-product of the implantation of God's seed into an individual's very nature?

It appears to me that this is not an [absolute] case of "either/or", but rather an "both/and" scenario. I would add that it is also perhaps the leading contributing source pertaining to the confusion and disagreements that abound between the two opposing camps.

The solution and perspective that I offer is that of a OJAJ [Once Justified Always Justified] Molinist; it's simply the one that I believe best reconciles all of the scriptural data on the issue.

(1) Abiding in God as being an essential condition for a future entrance into Heaven should not be denied.

(2) Abiding in God as the inevitable effect or end result of being born of God should not be denied.

So, how are these two truths harmonized? ... simply do not deny either of those truth claims. In other words, since abiding in God is the inevitable result of all those having been born of God, the essential condition of continuance in Him will at the same time [inevitably] be fulfilled by those persons. A person does not abide in God in order to retain or "maintain" the implanted seed of God within them ... rather, they abide in God due to, and because of, the reality that God's seed abides in them ... permanently.