How do you : "Fall from Grace"

[Eilat]

So........IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

See, this faith corrupted person can't SEE that you can't be more saved than you are, when you are born again....and remain so.
They can't SEE this, because their mind is blinded to this truth, as that is the devil's ability to cause this, by building a stronghold in their mind that is a subverting of real faith.

Salvation is COMPLETED by Jesus and given as a GIFT : "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its not to be completed, its to be received.
The mind blinded faith corrupted, can't SEE this, as this eternal truth has become veiled to them, as this is how the Law that they are trying to maintain to "stay saved", has blinded them.
Its Satan using a person's self righteousness to cause this mind blinded stronghold.

This Legalist has no FAITH anymore that Salvation is ACCOMPLISHED......
They have no enlightenment regarding why all their sins are dealt with and why they are already in the Kingdom of God and that Salvation is a completed Atonement.
Instead they are trying to both keep it and complete it., and that is how you reject Grace, misunderstand Grace, and Fall from it.

A person who has become .."im doing this or im not to do that"..and if i keep THAT worked out i end up in heaven, but if i don't then im lost"""""" this person cannot SEE that they are deceived and are obsessed with self saving, and are not really Trusting Christ any longer to get them in to Heaven.
"Fallen from Grace".

Here is the Spiritual SUBVERSION:
= The Devil has them believing that their Working/Enduring their way into heaven, is to Trust Christ.
So, that is how upside down and subverted their faith has become... They actually BELIEVE that self saving, enduring, self effort, is to trust in Christ, and its difficult to break this stronghold, because its so invested in pride and self righteousness and spiritual deception.

So, this person, is the "i can lose my salvation, i can commit the unpardonable sin", "I have now become a teacher of the gospel of works."",, as i have been deceived into BELIEVING as my FAITH....that the self effort of ENDURING , which is a SELF EFFORT....which is a WORK, is going to keep me saved.. is going to get me into Heaven... and if i dont do this, then i will not stay saved, and i will not go to heaven."""
This means that by turning from TRUST that Christ gets you into heaven, you have turned to yourself, to ENDURE, to commandment keep.... as your Cross that decides if you go to heaven or not.
Thats LEGALISM. Thats SELF Saving.

So, all self saving, is like this.. Its all subverted faith... falling from Grace...and into a mental stronghold whereby you are now trusting in what you do to try to get yourself into heaven, instead of ONLY Trusting in what Christ has done, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross," to get you into heaven.. and maintain your RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See, its all about BELIEVING , = "WHAT GETS ME INTO HEAVEN".... and when a person has lost sight of the Truth..., then they are faith subverted because they have a Mental STRONGHOLD that is their spiritual blindness, and this is to "fall from Grace".
Its to exist in that spiritual blindness as your actual Faith.
And if you are there, you can't SEE it.

THE "fallen from Grace....who is the "enduring" worker, the "commandment keeper", the "torah keeper" the "holding unto my faith as my salvation" keeper......all of these are the same deceptive STRONGHOLD.......its all trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, trying to keep yourself saved..= by whatever you think gets it done that YOU ARE TO DO = that you believe accomplishes this end result.
Understand, that whatever you are trusting in to get you into heaven is now your savior, and if you believe that you can lose your salvation, then this means you not actually Trusting in Jesus to keep you saved.
You are actually contradicting Grace, and are in opposition to this verse, which is to literally be in opposition to the Cross.
Philippians 1:6

 

[Aussie Pete]

Thank you for your post. It's spot on.

 

[bling]

People who try to earn their salvation, soon come to the realization they cannot do it.

Christians, who “fall away” desire carnal pleasures in this life over spiritual pleasures in the life and the next life.

There are lots of verses which warn Christians about becoming lost, needing to hang in there to the end, and continuing, but some people will use conflicting scripture that seems to be saying:

1. People who are not faithful at the end of their life never were converted.

2. You are selling a work bases salvation.

3. There are different “salvations” and say things like “Ananias and Sapphira” were punished with death, but go on to heaven salvation. (They do not explain how death suddenly became a punishment for Christians who get to go home?)

4. Christ will not loss any.


I use other scripture to address these arguments.

1. Gal. 6: 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Paul explains plainly that eternal life is the harvest in the future we do not want to “give up”, but that also teaches we can give it up.

Our doing good stuff while here on earth (or better: our allowing God to work through us doing good stuff) is not to “earn”, “payback” or to allow us to “hold on to our salvation”. We want to continue to utilize Godly type Love and not get caught up in carnal type love so the huge Love Feast of Heaven (unselfish type Love only) still has value to us and not something we would sell on the cheap.

As far as being saved by faith only without “works”, that is true, but just like the Prodigal son wimped out of taking the punishment he fully deserved and humbly returned to the Father, we must wimp out, give up surrender to our enemy God and that will allow God to shower us with His charity.

2. Eternal Life in heaven is spoken of as our inheritance and not something we actually have at the moment. All other Gifts of God we have right away, but heaven is truly ours as a birthright (our inheritance).


Also someone being dead was brought up, but we really need to see how Christ talked about dead people:


Part of the meaning to the concept of being given a gift is the fact that the ownership of the gift actually transfers to the receiver of the gift and as such the receiver of the gift can do what he/she wants to do with the gift.


The Hebrew writer in Heb. 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

Esau owned the “gift” of the firstborn inheritance rights, which could not be taken from him by anyone, nor could someone steal it from his hand, not even his father could take them back, but Esau could sell it or give it away.


The Hebrew writer is telling us not to give away or sell our birth right (as born again Christians) which is our inheritance of eternal life.



We own a paid-up tax-free deed to a home in heaven, so that home was gifted to us, but the Hebrew writer is saying we could sell (or give it away) like Esau did.


Again we are not doing or allowing the Holy Spirit to do good stuff through us to get anything (God has given us everything up front with the exception of dwelling in heaven right now), but we do have an undeserved birthright to heaven which cannot be lost like your keys, stolen from you, earned, paid back and even God will not take it from you, but you can of your own free will which you still have: given it away (satan wants it).

 

[Dan Perez]

So........IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

See, this faith corrupted person can't SEE that you can't be more saved than you are, when you are born again....and remain so.
They can't SEE this, because their mind is blinded to this truth, as that is the devil's ability to cause this, by building a stronghold in their mind that is a subverting of real faith.

Salvation is COMPLETED by Jesus and given as a GIFT : "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its not to be completed, its to be received.
The mind blinded faith corrupted, can't SEE this, as this eternal truth has become veiled to them, as this is how the Law that they are trying to maintain to "stay saved", has blinded them.
Its Satan using a person's self righteousness to cause this mind blinded stronghold.

This Legalist has no FAITH anymore that Salvation is ACCOMPLISHED......
They have no enlightenment regarding why all their sins are dealt with and why they are already in the Kingdom of God and that Salvation is a completed Atonement.
Instead they are trying to both keep it and complete it., and that is how you reject Grace, misunderstand Grace, and Fall from it.

A person who has become .."im doing this or im not to do that"..and if i keep THAT worked out i end up in heaven, but if i don't then im lost"""""" this person cannot SEE that they are deceived and are obsessed with self saving, and are not really Trusting Christ any longer to get them in to Heaven.
"Fallen from Grace".

Here is the Spiritual SUBVERSION:
= The Devil has them believing that their Working/Enduring their way into heaven, is to Trust Christ.
So, that is how upside down and subverted their faith has become... They actually BELIEVE that self saving, enduring, self effort, is to trust in Christ, and its difficult to break this stronghold, because its so invested in pride and self righteousness and spiritual deception.

So, this person, is the "i can lose my salvation, i can commit the unpardonable sin", "I have now become a teacher of the gospel of works."",, as i have been deceived into BELIEVING as my FAITH....that the self effort of ENDURING , which is a SELF EFFORT....which is a WORK, is going to keep me saved.. is going to get me into Heaven... and if i dont do this, then i will not stay saved, and i will not go to heaven."""
This means that by turning from TRUST that Christ gets you into heaven, you have turned to yourself, to ENDURE, to commandment keep.... as your Cross that decides if you go to heaven or not.
Thats LEGALISM. Thats SELF Saving.

So, all self saving, is like this.. Its all subverted faith... falling from Grace...and into a mental stronghold whereby you are now trusting in what you do to try to get yourself into heaven, instead of ONLY Trusting in what Christ has done, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross," to get you into heaven.. and maintain your RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See, its all about BELIEVING , = "WHAT GETS ME INTO HEAVEN".... and when a person has lost sight of the Truth..., then they are faith subverted because they have a Mental STRONGHOLD that is their spiritual blindness, and this is to "fall from Grace".
Its to exist in that spiritual blindness as your actual Faith.
And if you are there, you can't SEE it.

THE "fallen from Grace....who is the "enduring" worker, the "commandment keeper", the "torah keeper" the "holding unto my faith as my salvation" keeper......all of these are the same deceptive STRONGHOLD.......its all trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, trying to keep yourself saved..= by whatever you think gets it done that YOU ARE TO DO = that you believe accomplishes this end result.
Understand, that whatever you are trusting in to get you into heaven is now your savior, and if you believe that you can lose your salvation, then this means you not actually Trusting in Jesus to keep you saved.
You are actually contradicting Grace, and are in opposition to this verse, which is to literally be in opposition to the Cross.
Philippians 1:6

Hi and the answer to , HOW DO YOU FALL FROM GRACE is found in Gal 5:4 !!

dan p

 

[Eilat]

Hi and the answer to , HOW DO YOU FALL FROM GRACE is found in Gal 5:4 !!
dan p

"trying to be justified by the law".......has to be explained.
the reason is, most who are doing this, don't see it, can't see it.
so, you have to open the understanding, vs just quoting a verse.

did you ever notice that when Jesus was teaching, he would not always use a verse, but if He used one, he didnt just quote it and leave the room.
why?
because most people can't spiritually discern, and the word of God can't be "rightly divided" unless you have this specific spiritual skill.
this is why God sends in a teacher.

(see my Thread).

 

[Dan Perez]

"trying to be justified by the law".......has to be explained.
the reason is, most who are doing this, don't see it, can't see it.
so, you have to open the understanding, vs just quoting a verse.

did you ever notice that when Jesus was teaching, he would not always use a verse, but if He used one, he didnt just quote it and leave the room.
why?
because most people can't spiritually discern, and the word of God can't be "rightly divided" unless you have this specific spiritual skill.
this is why God sends in a teacher.

(see my Thread).

Hi and and Gal 5;4 says CHRIST / CHRISTOS is in the GENITIVE CASE which gives the description of the head , noun , CHRIST !

#2 , The Greek word WHOSOEVER / HOSTIS is in the Greek NOMINAITIVE CASE and means and points to whosoever and the subject of those believers in the BODY OF CHRIST !

#3 , ARE JUSTIFIED / DIKAIOO is a verb in the PRESENT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and is in the INDICATIVE MOOD which means all believers are JUSTIFIED forever , CONTINUALLY !!

#4 The Greek word THE LAW / NOMOS is in the DATIVE CASE ,which points to the INDIRECT OBJECT , the LAW !!

#5 , The Greek words , YE ARE FALLEN FROM / is a verb in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , and is in the INDICATIVE MOOD that , YE ARE FALLEN is a FACT !!

#6 They have FALLEN by keeping the Law of MOSES , SABBATH DAYS , WORKS , TRY TO LIVE LIKE A JEW , ADOPT JEWISH CUSTOMS , AND RITES OF THE JEWS , Gal 2:14 !!

#7 And FALLEN FROM GRACE / CHARIS , is TO KEEP THE LAW which is in the Greek noun and in the GENITIVE CASE and means that they are not in POSSESSION of the GRACE OF GOD !!

#8 But this does not means that they have LOST THEIR SALVATION , because as Gal 3:28 says we ARE / ESTE in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !!

#9 The Greek PRESENT TENSE means we are always CONTINUALLY FOREVER in the BODY of Christ !!

#10 The INDICATIVE MOOD means it is a FACT !!

dan p

 

[Eilat]

Hi and and Gal 5;4 says CHRIST / CHRISTOS is in the GENITIVE CASE which gives the description of the head , noun , CHRIST !#2 , The Greek word WHOSOEVER / HOSTIS is in the Greek NOMINAITIVE CASE and means and points to whosoever and the subject of those believers in the BODY OF CHRIST !#3 , ARE JUSTIFIED / DIKAIOO is a verb in the PRESENT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and is in the INDICATIVE MOOD which means all believers are JUSTIFIED forever , CONTINUALLY !!#4 The Greek word THE LAW / NOMOS is in the DATIVE CASE ,which points to the INDIRECT OBJECT , the LAW !!#5 , The Greek words , YE ARE FALLEN FROM / is a verb in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , and is in the INDICATIVE MOOD that , YE ARE FALLEN is a FACT !!#6 They have FALLEN by keeping the Law of MOSES , SABBATH DAYS , WORKS , TRY TO LIVE LIKE A JEW , ADOPT JEWISH CUSTOMS , AND RITES OF THE JEWS , Gal 2:14 !!#7 And FALLEN FROM GRACE / CHARIS , is TO KEEP THE LAW which is in the Greek noun and in the GENITIVE CASE and means that they are not in POSSESSION of the GRACE OF GOD !!
#8 But this does not means that they have LOST THEIR SALVATION , because as Gal 3:28 says we ARE / ESTE in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !!#9 The Greek PRESENT TENSE means we are always CONTINUALLY FOREVER in the BODY of Christ !!#10 The INDICATIVE MOOD means it is a FACT !!
dan p

dan,

i dont use the koine greek to try to correct the Bible.

So, falling from Grace, is simply to stop trusting that Christ's blood atonement is why you go to heaven.

This person , who no longer trusts that Christ's Blood is the only reason God accepts anyone or keeps anyone, has left this correct understanding, and has now become their own savior.
They are trying to keep themselves saved.
They are in fact hanging on their own self righteousness Cross.

 

[Dan Perez]

dan,

i dont use the koine greek to try to correct the Bible.

So, falling from Grace, is simply to stop trusting that Christ's blood atonement is why you go to heaven.

This person , who no longer trusts that Christ's Blood is the only reason God accepts anyone or keeps anyone, has left this correct understanding, and has now become their own savior.
They are trying to keep themselves saved.
They are in fact hanging on their own self righteousness Cross.

Hi and what was the NEW TESTAMENT THAN WRITTEN IN ?>

dan p

 

[5thKingdom]

So........IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

See, this faith corrupted person can't SEE that you can't be more saved than you are, when you are born again....and remain so.
They can't SEE this, because their mind is blinded to this truth, as that is the devil's ability to cause this, by building a stronghold in their mind that is a subverting of real faith.

Salvation is COMPLETED by Jesus and given as a GIFT : "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its not to be completed, its to be received.
The mind blinded faith corrupted, can't SEE this, as this eternal truth has become veiled to them, as this is how the Law that they are trying to maintain to "stay saved", has blinded them.
Its Satan using a person's self righteousness to cause this mind blinded stronghold.

This Legalist has no FAITH anymore that Salvation is ACCOMPLISHED......
They have no enlightenment regarding why all their sins are dealt with and why they are already in the Kingdom of God and that Salvation is a completed Atonement.
Instead they are trying to both keep it and complete it., and that is how you reject Grace, misunderstand Grace, and Fall from it.

A person who has become .."im doing this or im not to do that"..and if i keep THAT worked out i end up in heaven, but if i don't then im lost"""""" this person cannot SEE that they are deceived and are obsessed with self saving, and are not really Trusting Christ any longer to get them in to Heaven.
"Fallen from Grace".

Here is the Spiritual SUBVERSION:
= The Devil has them believing that their Working/Enduring their way into heaven, is to Trust Christ.
So, that is how upside down and subverted their faith has become... They actually BELIEVE that self saving, enduring, self effort, is to trust in Christ, and its difficult to break this stronghold, because its so invested in pride and self righteousness and spiritual deception.

So, this person, is the "i can lose my salvation, i can commit the unpardonable sin", "I have now become a teacher of the gospel of works."",, as i have been deceived into BELIEVING as my FAITH....that the self effort of ENDURING , which is a SELF EFFORT....which is a WORK, is going to keep me saved.. is going to get me into Heaven... and if i dont do this, then i will not stay saved, and i will not go to heaven."""
This means that by turning from TRUST that Christ gets you into heaven, you have turned to yourself, to ENDURE, to commandment keep.... as your Cross that decides if you go to heaven or not.
Thats LEGALISM. Thats SELF Saving.

So, all self saving, is like this.. Its all subverted faith... falling from Grace...and into a mental stronghold whereby you are now trusting in what you do to try to get yourself into heaven, instead of ONLY Trusting in what Christ has done, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross," to get you into heaven.. and maintain your RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See, its all about BELIEVING , = "WHAT GETS ME INTO HEAVEN".... and when a person has lost sight of the Truth..., then they are faith subverted because they have a Mental STRONGHOLD that is their spiritual blindness, and this is to "fall from Grace".
Its to exist in that spiritual blindness as your actual Faith.
And if you are there, you can't SEE it.

THE "fallen from Grace....who is the "enduring" worker, the "commandment keeper", the "torah keeper" the "holding unto my faith as my salvation" keeper......all of these are the same deceptive STRONGHOLD.......its all trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, trying to keep yourself saved..= by whatever you think gets it done that YOU ARE TO DO = that you believe accomplishes this end result.
Understand, that whatever you are trusting in to get you into heaven is now your savior, and if you believe that you can lose your salvation, then this means you not actually Trusting in Jesus to keep you saved.
You are actually contradicting Grace, and are in opposition to this verse, which is to literally be in opposition to the Cross.
Philippians 1:6

Or simply said:

Mat 13:3-9
And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Jim

 

[Eilat]

Hi and what was the NEW TESTAMENT THAN WRITTEN IN ?>
dan p

I said i dont use the K-Greek to correct the Bible.

Think about this Dan.....
God's foreknowledge understood that there would come a time that the world wide universal language was going to be English.
If you go to any country in the world, today...... you'll find that english is the language that matters most, other than each countries own language.
In this world, its ENGLISH that has the most universal context, just like its the US Dollar that is the monetary standard in the World.
So, God created the English bible, because He knew that English was going to be the dominant universal language till the end of the end times, long before Tyndale's version and the KJV showed up hundreds of years ago.

Also, you have to be really careful in the Church age we are living in regarding people who correct the English Bible with the Greek text, as many who do this are not just teaching from the Greek, they are actually recreating doctrine, according to their cult mentality, by revising NT doctrine, as their own theology.

Notice who expounds the bible using the Greek, vs who is always "correcting" the bible with the Greek.
That's your 1st clue.

 

[Eilat]

Or simply said:

Mat 13:3-9
And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Jim

We know that incorruptible seed fell on "good ground" if we are born again.
Thats the proof.
So, this can't be changed, but, what can become a flesh issue, is when a person's faith has switched from Faith in Christ to get them to heaven, into, "i can lose my salvation, so, let me now try to keep myself saved".
Thats the "mind of the flesh' or "falling from Grace".

 

[5thKingdom]

I said i dont use the K-Greek to correct the Bible.

Think about this Dan.....
God's foreknowledge understood that there would come a time that the world wide universal language was going to be English.
If you go to any country in the world, today...... you'll find that english is the language that matters most, other than each countries own language.
In this world, its ENGLISH that has the most universal context, just like its the US Dollar that is the monetary standard in the World.
So, God created the English bible, because He knew that English was going to be the dominant universal language till the end of the end times, long before Tyndale's version and the KJV showed up hundreds of years ago.

Also, you have to be really careful in the Church age we are living in regarding people who correct the English Bible with the Greek text, as many who do this are not just teaching from the Greek, they are actually recreating doctrine, according to their cult mentality, by revising NT doctrine, as their own theology.

Notice who expounds the bible using the Greek, vs who is always "correcting" the bible with the Greek.
That's your 1st clue.

In addition to everything said above - which is correct - today
we have a concordance that shows us every place in the Bible
where God uses a specific word. By comparing that usage we
(even with no knowledge of Greek or Hebrew) can determine
how GOD DEFINES the word... as, it is God that gets to define
the way HE USES each word in Scripture.


Often we find amazing insight into the doctrine being presented
by comparing each use of the specific word GOD CHOSE to use.
For example, in the Bible, the Great Tribulation is referred to as
the "night" in which no man can work. And this period is shown
as four (4) "watches of the night". The word God used, G5438,
is used exactly 47 times in the NT and it is translated as "prison"
40 times, it is translated as "watch" (of the night) five (5) times
and the word is translated as Satan's "cage" or "hold" two times
in Rev 18:1-2.


Therefore, we can understand that the four "watches" of the night
are likened to being in "prison" (40x) in the Bible... and the only other
time the word is used is to indicate Satan's prison ("cage/hold") or the
four "watches" (prisons) of the Great Tribulation. This usage teaches us
the Great Tribulation is shown as four "prisons" of Satan RULING over the
Great Tribulation saints. What an amazing insight we can find by seeing how
GOD USES THE WORD. We do not need to understand Greek to see this,
in fact, knowing Greek does not provide this kind of insight.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

We know that incorruptible seed fell on "good ground" if we are born again.
Thats the proof.
So, this can't be changed, but, what can become a flesh issue, is when a person's faith has switched from Faith in Christ to get them to heaven, into, "i can lose my salvation, so, let me now try to keep myself saved".
Thats the "mind of the flesh' or "falling from Grace".

But you contradict Scripture.
The seed that fell on good ground ALWAYS produced "fruit",
that endured. Some thirty-fold, some sixty-fold and some
one hundred-fold.


Only the seed that fell on bad ground produced no fruit or
withered and died.


NEVER did the good ground NOT produce fruit and NEVER did
that fruit die... because being saved is having ETERNAL LIFE
and "eternal" means exactly that.


It is not possible to LOSE eternal life.
It is possible to "fall away" for a period, but we always return
to our Father... as in the parable of the prodigal.


Those who SEEM to lose their salvation are only showing that
they were never really saved at all. As Jesus clearly taught, the
church consists of MANY unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan) and
relatively FEW saved "wheat" (sown by God).


In fact, those who seem to LOSE their salvation are only showing
that they were NEVER REALLY SAVED:


In fact JESUS PROMISED that He would lose NONE of "His Sheep".
So it is not possible to be one of "His sheep" and not be saved,
for eternity.


1Jn_2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us:
but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Jim

 

[Eilat]

But you contradict Scripture.
The seed that fell on good ground ALWAYS produced "fruit",
that endured. Some thirty-fold, some sixty-fold and some
one hundred-fold.Only the seed that fell on bad ground produced no fruit or
withered and died.NEVER did the good ground NOT produce fruit and NEVER did
that fruit die... because being saved is having ETERNAL LIFE
and "eternal" means exactly that.It is not possible to LOSE eternal life.
It is possible to "fall away" for a period, but we always return
to our Father... as in the parable of the prodigal.
Those who SEEM to lose their salvation are only showing that
they were never really saved at all. As Jesus clearly taught, the
church consists of MANY unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan) and
relatively FEW saved "wheat" (sown by God).
In fact, those who seem to LOSE their salvation are only showing
that they were NEVER REALLY SAVED:
In fact JESUS PROMISED that He would lose NONE of "His Sheep".
So it is not possible to be one of "His sheep" and not be saved,
for eternity.1Jn_2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us:
but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Jim

Jim,

"good seed" always produces.. good...... but, in those verses, you have good seed that in some cases, produced fruit, but they had no root.

Its a reality that you can be born again, and have dead faith, and be backslidden, yet, on your way to heaven.
And its a reality that you can be religious, and cast out demons in Jesus's name, and do works of goodness, in Jesus name", and be water baptized and eventually get old and die, and Jesus will say..."depart from me, i never knew you", = you are not born again.
Jesus said..."you MUST be born again".
"must".

And it is a fact that you can't be unborn again..
Being Born again, is not of us, its all of God, and once this happens, its a God created New Birth, and you can't undo a birth, especially one that God CAUSED.

A person's New Birth, "born again" = which is proof of their eternal SALVATION, will last for as long as God lives, as He is the One who caused the "New Birth".

 

[Brightfame52]

To fall from grace. Its to at one time profess that all of your salvation was conditioned on the Sovereign Grace of God in Christ, to change your profession to now saying that in some way, your salvation is conditioned upon man.

 

[Eilat]

To fall from grace. Its to at one time profess that all of your salvation was conditioned on the Sovereign Grace of God in Christ, to change your profession to now saying that in some way, your salvation is conditioned upon man.

God is Sovereign, but Grace is based on "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".
and.....>"all that BELIEVE on Jesus, shall be saved".
You have to hear the Gospel, and God will bring you to the Cross in your heart and understanding, using the Holy Sprit to draw you to the Cross and Christ, and you then choose to believe, as God does not choose for you, and what you choose determines where you end up after you die.

If you die a Christ Rejector, you have committed THE Sin, that can't be forgiven.

Now, "falling from Grace" simply means that your faith has become corrupted because it no longer truly BELIEVES that Jesus who Saved you will keep you saved..
You have left this faith in Christ as the only WAY to Heaven, and are now trying to keep yourself saved, which has become your real faith, and THAT Faith, is "fallen from Grace", and back into "the flesh", as Paul teaches in Galatians.

 

[Dan Perez]

I said i dont use the K-Greek to correct the Bible.

Think about this Dan.....
God's foreknowledge understood that there would come a time that the world wide universal language was going to be English.
If you go to any country in the world, today...... you'll find that english is the language that matters most, other than each countries own language.
In this world, its ENGLISH that has the most universal context, just like its the US Dollar that is the monetary standard in the World.
So, God created the English bible, because He knew that English was going to be the dominant universal language till the end of the end times, long before Tyndale's version and the KJV showed up hundreds of years ago.

Also, you have to be really careful in the Church age we are living in regarding people who correct the English Bible with the Greek text, as many who do this are not just teaching from the Greek, they are actually recreating doctrine, according to their cult mentality, by revising NT doctrine, as their own theology.

Notice who expounds the bible using the Greek, vs who is always "correcting" the bible with the Greek.
That's your 1st clue.

Hi and the HT was written in Greek and it has TENSES , VOICES , MOODS AND HAS CASES !

Just check BIBLE HUB or check BLUE LETTER BIBLE and see !!

I am not a KJV-ONLY person !!

Only the ORIGINALD AUTOGRAPHS are INSPIRED !!

There are over 160 translation of the bible is ENGLISH and do you believe they are ALL INSPIRED ??

dan p

 

[Brightfame52]

eilat

God is Sovereign, but Grace is based on "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

God is sovereign, but faith is based on Grace, men believe because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

So Im afraid you have it backwards.

You have to hear the Gospel,

Yes but it must be a spiritual hearing, with a spiritual ear, else its meaningless as it regards Salvation. And the spiritually dead cant hear spiritually.

 

[5thKingdom]

Jim "good seed" always produces.. good...... but, in those verses, you have good seed that in some cases, produced fruit, but they had no root.

You need to read the text more carefully.
We are not talking about good seed and bad seed.
Instead, we are talking about "good ground" [the elect]
and bad ground [those not elected to salvation].


The "wayside" and the "stony places" and the "thorns"
are all BAD GROUND (not bad seed).


The "GOOD GROUND" produced fruit... every time.
Some thirty-fold, others sixty-fold and some
one hundred-fold.

Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

Its a reality that you can be born again, and have dead faith,
and be backslidden, yet, on your way to heaven.

Yes, I said those who are regenerated (born again or "indwelt")
can fall away. But normally you "come to your senses" and
run back to your Father... as shown in the prodigal.

And its a reality that you can be religious, and cast out demons in Jesus's name, and do works of goodness, in Jesus name", and be water baptized and eventually get old and die, and Jesus will say..."depart from me, i never knew you", = you are not born again.
Jesus said..."you MUST be born again".
"must".

There is NO DISPUTE that Jesus taught [Mat 13] that the Christian
"Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of BOTH the saved
"wheat" sown by God and destined to eternal life AND the unsaved
"tares" sown by Satan and destined to the same fire prepared for
Satan and his demons [Mat 25:41].


So I do not understand your POINT?
Of course you must be regenerated or born again or indwelt
when you are saved. The fact that the church contains MANY
who are not saved (are the "children of Satan") is not "news".

A person's New Birth, "born again" = which is proof of their eternal SALVATION, will last for as long as God lives, as He is the One who caused the "New Birth".

But I have NEVER disputed that eternal life = eternal life.
I don't know WHAT I could have said that left you with
any other impression.


Jim