How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[will_b_true]

I'd pull out the Trinity pic but .. the scripture contradicts that sometimes . where Jesus said he and the Father are the same .

What Scripture teaches is that Christ, the Son, and the Father are the Same in Essence. What Nicene fathers called, "homoousios", which means, "Of the exact same essence or substance".

i spent plenty of time theologizing . and it killed me .



now i'm exploring its reality .

Here is a good dose of reality. You still are theologizing.

Theology is the study of God. So you are still theologizing whether you want to admit it or not.(wink)

 

[sunlover1]

yet David said to God .. you have searched my heart and know me .

Way cool

Back to this thread.
I don't believe that the Pentecostal/Charismatic "movement" is damaging to Christianity at all.
In fact, when you come against a huge spiritual problem.. who ya gonna call?
Old tongue talkin, bible thumpin, Holy Ghost filled, charismatic Auntie.
I have had some of my non pent/char relatives call me ONLY when they're in a spirtual bind.
Then I am their best bud and go to person lol.

Who IS damaging?
Those who misrepresent the Bible are damaging, but they're in every camp, so it's not a pent/charis thang.

 

[will_b_true]

The Rational/Carnal Mind cannot understand Spiritual Things/Scripture . it is written

Carnal does not mean "rational". "Carnal" in the context of that passage, means those who have not been regenerated spiritually.

You see, you apply your own meanings to terms is exactly what the Mormons, Christian Scientists, JWs, Word of Faith, New Agers and others do.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What Scripture teaches is that Christ, the Son, and the Father are the Same in Essence. What Nicene fathers called, "homoousios", which means, "Of the exact same essence or substance".

Sure I believe that, except substance lowers God to creation status i'll pick essence i suppose . and your point was?

I'm into experiencing God all the time,

God is Love,

and you know Paul said .. one could possess all the knowledge about everything .. but not have love .. and it's nothing . a resounding gong . just some big talking head loud speaker . and so what?

so you can intellectualize it all you want . but western rationalism is not the lense the bible was written under, so you know, you can spin your tires in the mud all you want, but hey .. been there done that .. no need to test it as scripture instructs . i took all that was good out of it . and left the bad behind . (1 Thes 5:19-22)

Here is a good dose of reality. You still are theologizing.

Theology is the study of God. So you are still theologizing whether you want to admit it or not.(wink)

Well according to the dictionary definition you are correct

and according to the applied definition i am correct .

so the way i see it is, it's a win-win situation .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Carnal does not mean "rational". "Carnal" in the context of that passage, means those who have not been regenerated spiritually.

You see, you apply your own meanings to terms is exactly what the Mormons, Christian Scientists, JWs, Word of Faith, New Agers and others do.

Well then, if you have the mind of Christ, then use it is what i was saying, not the mind this society spoonfed you silly .

 

[will_b_true]

Way cool

<font size="3">Back to this thread.
I don't believe that the Pentecostal/Charismatic "movement" is damaging to Christianity at all.

That depends on which flavor you are talking about.

Some have orthodox Christology and Soteriology, some are flaming heretics and do lots of damage to people, many of whom I have wept with over the damage they have done.

The Word of Faith snakeoil salesmen, fake healers, name and claim it prosperity types fleece people dry and leave their faith in God in shambles.

 

[will_b_true]

Well then, if you have the mind of Christ, then use it is what i was saying, not the mind this society spoonfed you silly .

Well, I am using it, and it is that Mind that I am pointing out the errors you have embarked on. Get it?(wink)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think what happens is, you have finally some people who are willing to think creatively about stuff . and no other alternatives . everyone else is just soooooooooooooo critical . so it's like once you've sifted through all this garbage to find the few jems God hid in there . they're all yours, no one else can comprehend their worth .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, I am using it, and it is that Mind that I am pointing out the errors you have embarked on. Get it?(wink)

not really, there's way too much covetousness in your approach . so the information is tainted by that .

 

[JimfromOhio]

yet David said to God .. you have searched my heart and know me .

David messed up big time many times but God told us through the Bible that David was truly after God's heart. There is head knowledge, head and heart and just heart knowledge. In knowing God (not just about Him) the heart must be involved. Jesus spoke the issues of a person's heart and a Christian's motive for any reasons. Our hearts are like a garden and must be kept free from weeds and insects. To expect the fruits and flowers bloom in an untended heart is to misunderstand completely the processes of Grace and grieving the Holy Spirit. A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires. If there is no righteous deed, if there is no fruit of righteousness, there is no way to demonstrate the validity of faith.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires.

okay that's in the gospel .

If there is no righteous deed, if there is no fruit of righteousness, there is no way to demonstrate the validity of faith.

So long as you mean it in context, faith without works is dead means helping the unfortunate, and not showing favoritism because without showing of love, how can faith be of any value? that's what James said . so long as you don't mean following the scriptures=righteousness i suppose we probably agree .

 

[JimfromOhio]

That depends on which flavor you are talking about.

Some have orthodox Christology and Soteriology, some are flaming heretics and do lots of damage to people, many of whom I have wept with over the damage they have done.

The Word of Faith snakeoil salesmen, fake healers, name and claim it prosperity types fleece people dry and leave their faith in God in shambles.

Proneness to heresy is not confined to the cults. By our sinful nature, we are all heretics. People often unconsciously select for special attention certain Scriptures that they are familiar with that they forget to check to see the Scriptures for deeper study. Lack of balance scripturally is often the direct consequence of overemphasis on certain favorite passages while ignoring others that are related. We must hold on to the knowledge that all of us are heretics by nature and can never know redeeming truth till we are enlightened and convicted by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures.

 

[sunlover1]

That depends on which flavor you are talking about..

that's a given....
I'm referring to any group who believes we still operate in the "spiritual" things.

As i said, there are bad in any group and we avoid that as well as we can.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

By our sinful nature, we are all heretics.

Indeed, by showing we cannot be one, as God is one, we show through our pride from the EO, CC, Protestants and unaligned what heretics we truly are. each and every one of us .

 

[JimfromOhio]

A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires.

okay that's in the gospel .



So long as you mean it in context, faith without works is dead means helping the unfortunate, and not showing favoritism because without showing of love, how can faith be of any value? that's what James said . so long as you don't mean following the scriptures=righteousness i suppose we probably agree .

Jesus is advocating loving service, and Biblical love is self-sacrificing service which is part of the "community". Its a reminder that the life of the church is made up of spiritual attitudes and spiritual motivations, spiritual graces that come from deep within the community. Its a reminder of this verse in Ephesians 4:4, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

 

[sunlover1]

Proneness to heresy is not confined to the cults.

Charismatics are not a 'cult'.

By our sinful nature, we are all heretics.

Not to be disagreeable but this is not truth.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires.

Jesus is advocating loving service, and Biblical love is self-sacrificing service which is part of the "community". Its a reminder that the life of the church is made up of spiritual attitudes and spiritual motivations, spiritual graces that come from deep within the community. Its a reminder of this verse in Ephesians 4:4, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

I'd say the spirit of your text is in agreement with what is in my heart on the matter .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Charismatics are not a 'cult'.

I guess they have grown from being just a little sect to a bigger group now .

but some of those teachings .. i wish they just woulda kept it simple .

 

[JimfromOhio]

Indeed, by showing we cannot be one, as God is one, we show through our pride from the EO, CC, Protestants and unaligned what heretics we truly are. each and every one of us .

The most damnable and pernicious heresy that has ever plagued the mind of man was the idea that somehow he could make himself good enough to deserve to live with an all-holy God. Martin Luther

 

[sunlover1]

Indeed, by showing we cannot be one, as God is one, we show through our pride from the EO, CC, Protestants and unaligned what heretics we truly are. each and every one of us .

Yes i do believe that this is what heresy is.
But i do not believe that 'each and every one of us is an heretic"
It's just not true and not biblical.

I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you,
that they which are approved may be made manifest among you