How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[will_b_true]

Word of Faith didn't come out of Azusa Street

E. W. Kenyon, was a part of the Azusa Street revival, coming with his devotion to the New Thought movement of the late 19th and early 20th century forerunners of the New Age movement. He is the father of the Word of Faith movement, and is recognized as such by Hagin, Copeland and the rest. He combined New Thought spiritism with what he took from Azusa Street and was off and running as the father of the Word of Faith Movement.

As far as Dake goes, what's there to tell?

A lot. Dake was a raging heretic.

It's fairly common knowledge that he had some strange ideas on some things...especially his explanation of the Trinity.

Strange? How about full blown heresy? That each of the Divine Persons has a physical body, soul and spirit? The man preached a false god, false christ and false gospel. That classifies him as an antichrist.

Oneness...while I don't agree with it, it seems to me to be just another way of explaining the divinity of Christ...I have no issue with that.

You have no problem with Oneness Pentecostals teaching a false jesus? That's odd, Jesus told His sheep to beware of those who preach a false jesus. Called them wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Wof was an infant in the lat 60's and very wide spread by mid 70's. Hagin was known as dad Hagin by 74. I grew up in the AoG and learned from their schools and books. By 75 I knew it was a fraud. It had me very mixed up till at least mid 80's.

Oh so it goes back to the 70's then what i was learning was bird puke .. er regurgitated stuff .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Oneness pentecostals don't understand the Trinity, and neither do most protestants . so Unitarianism is really just a by product from this lack of understanding that comes from really experiencing and knowing what it is when you are .

 

[from scratch]

i was just asking if that questionable interpretation originated from pentecostals . but if not, maybe i'll start another thread .. how damaging is ..

i mean, the one most obsessed with a Jezebel Spirit is usually a perfect example of a person who has one .

It is used by all legalist that I know of which includes some very cultish groups. I will refrain from naming a few religious organizations to stay out of trouble.

It is one of those manipulative keys used to control the religious and lift them up in self righteous pride.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Oneness pentecostals don't understand the Trinity, and neither do most protestants . so Unitarianism is really just a by product from this lack of understanding that comes from really experiencing and knowing what it is when you are .

Seems like you know everything

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It is used by all legalist that I know of which includes some very cultish groups. I will refrain from naming a few religious organizations to stay out of trouble.

yes very wise . as many can ..

oh yeah!

i remember this sentiment in pentecostal circles way back where people would threaten to "pray for you" anyone else experience that?

 

[Big Drew]

Entire Sanctification? what's that?

The same thing as what Methodists call Christian Perfection...these terms can be misleading...

It's not that one who is sanctified is unable to sin...but that they can choose to not sin...there's much more to it...but that's the gist of it...and really not something we should get into in this thread...it would be more of a discussion for Methodists and Holiness folks than Pentecostals...as I said, some of us overlap, but the majority do not.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Seems like you know everything

I don't know everything . but i do experience the trinity expressed in the gospel of John when talking to people . it's just wild .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The same thing as what Methodists call Christian Perfection...these terms can be misleading...

It's not that one who is sanctified is unable to sin...but that they can choose to not sin...there's much more to it...but that's the gist of it...and really not something we should get into in this thread...it would be more of a discussion for Methodists and Holiness folks than Pentecostals...as I said, some of us overlap, but the majority do not.

That concept reminded me of a passage in the catechism where some sacraments gave extra protection against sin, not invulnerability, but extra resistance .

 

[JimfromOhio]

The same thing as what Methodists call Christian Perfection...these terms can be misleading...

It's not that one who is sanctified is unable to sin...but that they can choose to not sin...there's much more to it...but that's the gist of it...and really not something we should get into in this thread...it would be more of a discussion for Methodists and Holiness folks than Pentecostals...as I said, some of us overlap, but the majority do not.

If I remember correctly, Pentecostals are the spinoff from Methodism.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If I remember correctly, Pentecostals are the spinoff from Methodism.

I remember that too .

 

[JimfromOhio]

That concept reminded me of a passage in the catechism where some sacraments gave extra protection against sin, not invulnerability, but extra resistance .

what passage would that be?

 

[will_b_true]

Oneness pentecostals don't understand the Trinity, and neither do most protestants .

We understand what Scripture teaches.
There is One Divine Being, revealed in Three Eternally Distinct Persons or Personas, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Their eternal distinction is based on relationship, in a subject/object distinction.
The Father(subject) loves(relationship) the Son(object).

The Son(subject) loves(relationship) the Father(object)

The Father(subject) sends(relationship) the Spirit(object)


The Three Persons of the Divine Essence or Being interact, have relationship, communicate, have distinct roles, all this denotes distinction of Persona.

Oneness Pentecostals teach the classic heresy of Monarchian Modalism, of, One Divine Persona, expressed in three modes or manifestations. They teach Jesus is the Father at times, is the Son at times and the Holy Spirit at times.

Modes do not love each other. Persons do.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

what passage would that be?

I like this one (because it describes what god does in me! hehehe)

1521 Union with the passion of Christ. By the grace of this sacrament the sick person receives the strength and the gift of uniting himself more closely to Christ's Passion: in a certain way he is consecrated to bear fruit by configuration to the Savior's redemptive Passion. Suffering, a consequence of original sin, acquires a new meaning; it becomes a participation in the saving work of Jesus.

but i think the one i was referring to was the priest sacrament .. i'll keep looking

 

[Gregory Thompson]

We understand what Scripture teaches.
There is One Divine Being, revealed in Three Eternally Distinct Persons or Personas, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Their eternal distinction is based on relationship, in a subject/object distinction.
The Father(subject) loves(relationship) the Son(object).

The Son(subject) loves(relationship) the Father(object)

The Father(subject) sends(relationship) the Spirit(object)


The Three Persons of the Divine Essence or Being interact, have relationship, communicate, have distinct roles, all this denotes distinction of Persona.

Oneness Pentecostals teach the classic heresy of Monarchian Modalism, of, One Divine Persona, expressed in three modes or manifestations. They teach Jesus is the Father at times, is the Son at times and the Holy Spirit at times.

Modes do not love each other. Persons do.

Yes that describes something . but it doesn't reflect a relationship . I meant the intimate kind of "knowing"

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ah here we are

1120 The ordained ministry or ministerial priesthood is at the service of the baptismal priesthood.38 The ordained priesthood guarantees that it really is Christ who acts in the sacraments through the Holy Spirit for the Church. The saving mission entrusted by the Father to his incarnate Son was committed to the apostles and through them to their successors: they receive the Spirit of Jesus to act in his name and in his person.39 The ordained minister is the sacramental bond that ties the liturgical action to what the apostles said and did and, through them, to the words and actions of Christ, the source and foundation of the sacraments.
1121 The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer, in addition to grace, a sacramental character or "seal" by which the Christian shares in Christ's priesthood and is made a member of the Church according to different states and functions. This configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible,40 it remains for ever in the Christian as a positive disposition for grace, a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and to the service of the Church. Therefore these sacraments can never be repeated.

There was something else .. but i'm sure i'll find it later .

 

[JimfromOhio]

I like this one (because it describes what god does in me! hehehe)

1521 Union with the passion of Christ. By the grace of this sacrament the sick person receives the strength and the gift of uniting himself more closely to Christ's Passion: in a certain way he is consecrated to bear fruit by configuration to the Savior's redemptive Passion. Suffering, a consequence of original sin, acquires a new meaning; it becomes a participation in the saving work of Jesus.

but i think the one i was referring to was the priest sacrament .. i'll keep looking

Oh okay.... from Catholic's catechism... that makes sense

 

[will_b_true]

Yes that describes something . but it doesn't reflect a relationship . I meant the intimate kind of "knowing"

Oh, I see, so Divine Love is not "knowing"?

Whatever are you talking about?
Loving is not relationship? Whatever do you mean?
What in your mind and definition is "relationship"?
Somehow I think you have your own personal definition. Please share it.

 

[will_b_true]

Oh okay.... from Catholic's catechism... that makes sense

LOL

 

[Big Drew]

E. W. Kenyon, was a part of the Azusa Street revival, coming with his devotion to the New Thought movement of the late 19th and early 20th century forerunners of the New Age movement. He is the father of the Word of Faith movement, and is recognized as such by Hagin, Copeland and the rest. He combined New Thought spiritism with what he took from Azusa Street and was off and running as the father of the Word of Faith Movement.

Thanks for the history lesson...a lot of folks came through the Azusa Street Revival though...so this would be like saying the Marine Corp makes people murderers because Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine...

A lot. Dake was a raging heretic. Strange? How about full blown heresy? That each of the Divine Persons has a physical body, soul and spirit? The man preached a false god, false christ and false gospel. That classifies him as an antichrist.

Okay...I agree that he had some off the wall ideas...but, I'm not really comfortable calling folks heretics and antichrists...

You have no problem with Oneness Pentecostals teaching a false jesus? That's odd, Jesus told His sheep to beware of those who preach a false jesus. Called them wolves in sheep's clothing.

What exactly is it about their Jesus you see as false? From what I've read it's nothing more than another way of explaining Christ's divinity...