How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[Big Drew]

If I remember correctly, Pentecostals are the spinoff from Methodism.

In a sense...some denominations have Wesleyan Holiness roots...but there are other categories as well.

I think most assume that all Pentecostals have Methodist origins because Charles Parham is considered the "father of Pentecostalism" and he was a former Methodist minister.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Oh, I see, so Divine Love is not "knowing"?

Whatever are you talking about?
Loving is not relationship? Whatever do you mean?
What in your mind and definition is "relationship"?
Somehow I think you have your own personal definition. Please share it.

I meant in the OT knowledge shows up in English but there are two types of knowledge. Head knowledge and intimate knowledge .

What I understand trinity to be is the oneness described in John where Jesus said "do you not know that i am in the Father and the Father is in me?" Jesus prayed that we have the same oneness, and in this way we "trinity" with one another, i in you you in me and the community in and in one another as one body .

God is trinity . we "trinity" with other people .

and we are all one in each other .

or as it is prophesied of the final picture God will be all and in all .

So once I experienced it to understand it,

i realized all in the image and likeness .

have this capacity .. and they do it all the time . but the things we do to one another and we just do not Know .. Lord forgive us .

 

[sunlover1]

Ok so....theres been some fairly heated debates recently involving certain Pente / Charismatic 'practices' where me and others have been trying to ask people involved in these things to discuss exactly which of the leaders / teachers /pastors in those movement are DAMAGING and which ones do they hold up as good examples.

So can we have a thread where we discuss exactly this issue and come to some unity on who are the false teachers who have deceived MILLIONS in the third wave movement, how this has happened......and how the respected leaders in the movement differ from the wolves.

Please bring forward the wolves AND the godly teachers in the movement and lets critically examine their respective teachings in the light of day.

Ready......set.......begin >

I don't know them.. the wolves OR the godly ones.
Just as I don't know the wolves or godly baptist preachers
or the wolves or godly of the RCC's preachers or the
Presbyterians preachers.

I've heard this a few times...not really sure where folks came up with that either...but, I recall hearing it said by a Baptist once...so it must not be a strictly Pentecostal/Charismatic saying.

Probably came up with it from the Bible. it's just a Christian truth. Bible says we do not wrestle flesh and blood ...


Satan walks around like a roaring lion seeking who he might devour 1 peter 5

The theif comes not BUT to
kill
steal
and destroy.

We WRESTLE not against flesh and blood but against .....

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Probably came up with it from the Bible. it's just a Christian truth. Bible says we do not wrestle flesh and blood ...

Yes but the bible also says .. we are called to peace .

and the bible also says .. we should not have an unhealthy interest in controversies .

and also that one who has respect for God will avoid all extremes .

there are times when God is blessing you, and everyone else is acting all crazy, and such doctrines can make us question if we should be in a place of peace . and this tells me . that's something the devil would say .

don't worry . trust instead . and the peace that surpasses all understanding will protect your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus .

by believing all affliction is a reward for doing good, we let the enemy in that way .

a balanced perspective is always the order of the day .

 

[Big Drew]

Probably came up with it from the Bible. it's just a Christian truth. Bible says we do not wrestle flesh and blood ...


Satan walks around like a roaring lion seeking who he might devour 1 peter 5

The theif comes not BUT to
kill
steal
and destroy.

We WRESTLE not against flesh and blood but against .....

I'm with you there...but there are some sayings that could be taken the wrong way...like this one that Michael mentioned...An immature Christian may think that if they aren't going through some sort of trial that they've lost their salvation or God's angry with them or something...it sounds silly, I know...but we have to be careful with how we word things.

Reminds me of what a pastor used to say when folks would get saved, "Now that you're saved go out and do whatever you want for as long as you can stand it." A lot of folks took this as a "license to sin." He should have elaborated, "...because if you're really saved you won't be able to stand what you're doing for very long."

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thanks, yeah, i think the words we choose are very important . they are like chords in music .

...because if you're really saved you won't be able to stand what you're doing for very long."

 

[sunlover1]

Yes but the bible also says .. we are called to peace .

and the bible also says .. we should not have an unhealthy interest in controversies .

and also that one who has respect for God will avoid all extremes .

there are times when God is blessing you, and everyone else is acting all crazy, and such doctrines can make us question if we should be in a place of peace . and this tells me . that's something the devil would say .

don't worry . trust instead . and the peace that surpasses all understanding will protect your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus .

by believing all affliction is a reward for doing good, we let the enemy in that way .

a balanced perspective is always the order of the day .

Sorry but your post is too difficult to understand .
Anyhow. I posted what the Bible says.. that there's a devil making trouble for us..
God warned us.

So when trouble comes I look to see where it's coming from and act accordingly.
If it's from the enemy i stand and fight like a man.
If it's God pruning me i cry ... well?...
If it's God disciplining me, I repent.... etc.

But I don't just "assume" that it's God ...

Good rule of thumb:
God is always good
devil is always bad

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sorry but your post is too difficult to understand .
Anyhow. I posted what the Bible says.. that there's a devil making trouble for us..
God warned us.

So when trouble comes I look to see where it's coming from and act accordingly.
If it's from the enemy i stand and fight like a man.
If it's God pruning me i cry ... well?...
If it's God disciplining me, I repent.... etc.

But I don't just "assume" that it's God ...

Good rule of thumb:
God is always good
devil is always bad

well even that rule of thumb for example, sometimes the devil will be nice to you or even act according to scripture . so it is not always so simple .

it's always just emphasis . and how it affects the hearts . at times i can see the melody words make .

 

[will_b_true]

I meant in the OT knowledge shows up in English but there are two types of knowledge. Head knowledge and intimate knowledge .

I think you are making a false dichotomy there in relation to the Trinune Being we call God.

There is Intimacy of Infinite Knowledge and Wisdom and Intimacy of Love within the Triniune God.

But what do I know, I'm just a dumb schmuck who believes the Bible. I'm no mystic.

What I understand trinity to be is the oneness described in John where Jesus said "do you not know that i am in the Father and the Father is in me?"

Jesus was speaking of Their Divine Essence.


Do you know what "Trinity", in theological terms, means?


I suspected you had your own distinctive and personal meaning of these terms that is outside the norm of terminology.

Be careful, that's how heretics and cults get started by inventing their own definitions of terms.

Jesus prayed that we have the same oneness, and in this way we "trinity" with one another, i in you you in me and the community in and in one another as one body .


God is trinity . we "trinity" with other people .


and we are all one in each other .


or as it is prophesied of the final picture God will be all and in all .


So once I experienced it to understand it,

i realized all in the image and likeness .


have this capacity .. and they do it all the time .

Jow very pantheistic and New Age.

That floats well with the Word of Faith cult too.

 

[sunlover1]

I'm with you there...

Good... cos it was Scripture lol.

but there are some sayings that could be taken the wrong way...like this one that Michael mentioned...An immature Christian may think that if they aren't going through some sort of trial that they've lost their salvation or God's angry with them or something...it sounds silly, I know...but we have to be careful with how we word things.

I don't think we have to worry overly much about 'that' happening!
Unfortunately.. it's a rare time we 'arent' going through something as a Christian

And yes, we need to always speak as the very oracles of God...
We should pray for help before we speak.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jow very pantheistic and New Age.

That floats well with the Word of Faith cult too.

just expressing how i was experiencing scripture .

without experience words are just dead .

and without melody .

I'd pull out the Trinity pic but .. the scripture contradicts that sometimes . where Jesus said he and the Father are the same . but the diagram says He isn't

i spent plenty of time theologizing . and it killed me .

now i'm exploring its reality .

 

[will_b_true]

Yes but the bible also says .. we are called to peace .

and the bible also says .. we should not have an unhealthy interest in controversies .

you left out an important word that gives the context, "useless".

We are to avoid useless controversies. Christians are to ernestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints(Jude 3).

 

[sunlover1]

well even that rule of thumb for example, sometimes the devil will be nice to you or even act according to scripture . so it is not always so simple .

it's always just emphasis . and how it affects the hearts . at times i can see the melody words make .

Yep.. he does try to trick.
But the devil is always bad
God is always good.

 

[will_b_true]

just expressing how i was experiencing scripture .

Experiences are misleading and deceiving, don't trust them unless tested against the sure Word of God, understood in context, and not reading your own invented meanings into them as some kind of mystic.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

you left out an important word that gives the context, "useless".

We are to avoid useless controversies. Christians are to ernestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints(Jude 3).

useless must be in a later translation, don't remember that .

but i'll keep an eye out next time i'm in jude verse 26 is one of my favs .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Experiences are misleading and deceiving, don't trust them unless tested against the sure Word of God, understood in context, and not reading your own invented meanings into them as some kind of mystic.

But it is according to scripture .

I trust God . go walking in the Spirit of God .

and the Holy Spirit bring scripture back to remembrance as i experience it .

it is according to scripture . just not your experience of it .

 

[sunlover1]

Experiences are misleading and deceiving, don't trust them unless tested against the sure Word of God, understood in context, and not reading your own invented meanings into them as some kind of mystic.

Amen.
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.. who can know it?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yep.. he does try to trick.
But the devil is always bad
God is always good.

hahaha now you wonder why i avoid ecclesiastical retail outlets

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Amen.
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.. who can know it?

yet David said to God .. you have searched my heart and know me .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Rational/Carnal Mind cannot understand Spiritual Things/Scripture . it is written