How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[Gregory Thompson]

You know, when Jesus said he will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail . he did not mean Christians would cower in fear of the dark forces of this world .. just saying . some have to go and meet them where they are at and say .. Jesus owns this place . get out .

 

[will_b_true]

Everyone has an opinion to explain God's standard.

Yeah, but mine is the right one.(wink)

 

[JimfromOhio]

I agree, heresy, as used by the Apostles and early church however, did apply to the teaching of false doctrines and practices that led to division, schisms, etc.

This division set the direction for all God's dealings in nature and in grace. I can see why there are "divisions" within Christianity. Church divisions have been going on since the New Testament days As Paul wrote in1 Corinthians 12-13 "One of you says, 'I follow Paul'; another, 'I follow Apollos'; another, 'I follow Cephas'; still another, 'I follow Christ.' Is Christ divided?"

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes, i did post that incorrectly lol.. and yeah, that is obvious.
But they too had such in the early ONE church:

I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you,
that they which are approved may be made manifest among you

And paul speaks of same type of thing in other places as well.
One that comes to mind of course is the "Is Christ divided" speech.

We are not all heretics and it's best if you dont call us such.
I'm sorry to hear it if you are one who chooses to be divided.
I don't choose it and I combat it 24/7

His desire is that we might be one.

I desire that we might be one too . but one lesson i learned from my WoFy days is . "positive speaking" needs to be balanced with a serious reality check every so often .

i believe the only way we can be one is to stop being so proud . it is our pride that continues to divide us .

i do not wish for the church to be divided but i do recognize that it is .

encouragement: "delight in the Lord also, and he will fulfill the desires of your heart."

 

[sunlover1]

so you embrace all protestants . so you are a heretic to CC and EO etc .

Nope. I love them all... I will break bread with any of them.. I will worship with any of the.
My only qualification is that they are part of the one church.
And what else is there?
I sure can't say i will only worship with those who have it all correct lol.
That'd be maybe none of us.

it is fine to discriminate so long as i discriminate consistently and point the finger at myself also .

so it is fine tee hee

Well if you're an heretic.. cut that out!
Mercy and grace to you!

One am one of the fastest typists at work

ONE of?? lol
I'd hire you before anyone else if i had a lot of typing i needed done

 

[will_b_true]

You know, when Jesus said he will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail . he did not mean Christians would cower in fear of the dark forces of this world .. just saying . some have to go and meet them where they are at and say .. Jesus owns this place . get out .

We agree on that.

The "Gates of Hades" was the entrance way to death in the vernacular of that day.

Gates also are a defensive position.

It was Jesus' way of saying that He had kicked in the gate to death and His Church would continue to kick in the gateway to death by the preaching of His Gospel.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Yeah, but mine is the right one.(wink)

Sure as long as you abide God's word. God holds us accountable for what we believe as well as how we think about the truth He has revealed. The key to sanctification then, is to know and obey the truth which is the Word of God in our hearts. We ourselves must keep in mind, and those we who are disciples, that truth is greater than our understanding of it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I desire that we might be one too . but one lesson i learned from my WoFy days is . "positive speaking" needs to be balanced with a serious reality check every so often .

i believe the only way we can be one is to stop being so proud . it is our pride that continues to divide us .

i do not wish for the church to be divided but i do recognize that it is .

encouragement: "delight in the Lord also, and he will fulfill the desires of your heart."

Yep, in "positive thinking", our flesh search for pleasure, pride, passions and selfish motives.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Nope. I love them all... I will break bread with any of them.. I will worship with any of the.
My only qualification is that they are part of the one church.
And what else is there?
I sure can't say i will only worship with those who have it all correct lol.
That'd be maybe none of us.

But they're not bible believing, quite often tradition believing .. but heheheheh was doing a play on words .

Well if you're an heretic.. cut that out!
Mercy and grace to you!

got called one the other day . so i must be . total misunderstanding . but not being a protestant it is to be expected .

 

[sunlover1]

There are times that I deal with my own "theological bias" just as much as anyone else here.

You're a good sport Jim.
I know i always give you crap and I know your heart is toward God
You deserve better...
Be blessed!

Originally Posted by will_b_true

That depends on which flavor you are talking about..

Even with that one must look closely at what meaning is poured into "spiritual" for some have some very strange meanings that are gnostic and rather occultic.

I guess I don't worry much because I am so grounded in the Word and close to the
Author, I seriously trust Him to tell me when I am veering.
He's never let me down Will. ....

If you notice, I have been addressing very specific groups, and not lumping all pentecostals in with them.

[/QUOTE]
As it should be.
Wheat and tares.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yep, in "positive thinking", our flesh search for pleasure, pride, passions and selfish motives.

something i battle all the time in the tri-unity channels - it's a rollercoaster of surrender i tell you . most days it feels like i'm surrendering wills that aren't even mine .

 

[will_b_true]

This division set the direction for all God's dealings in nature and in grace. I can see why there are "divisions" within Christianity. Church divisions have been going on since the New Testament days As Paul wrote in1 Corinthians 12-13 "One of you says, 'I follow Paul'; another, 'I follow Apollos'; another, 'I follow Cephas'; still another, 'I follow Christ.' Is Christ divided?"

Yes, divisions have been with us from the start. Those in Corinth were dividing over this elitism and sense of superiority because they thought their favorite teacher was superior to others. That was Paul's point in saying, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth", saying, "Hey youse guys, we are nothing, God is everything, so come down off your high horse and stop getting hung up in this feeling of superiority because you have exalted a certain teacher above Christ."

Paul in no way was talking about divisions that arise from heresy, for later on he says separation is required in that case, specifically with the Judaizers whom he called "ministers of Satan".

 

[JimfromOhio]

Yes, divisions have been with us from the start. Those in Corinth were dividing over this elitism and sense of superiority because they thought their favorite teacher was superior to others. That was Paul's point in saying, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth", saying, "Hey youse guys, we are nothing, God is everything, so come down off your high horse and stop getting hung up in this feeling of superiority because you have exalted a certain teacher above Christ."

Paul in no way was talking about divisions that arise from heresy, for later on he says separation is required in that case, specifically with the Judaizers whom he called "ministers of Satan".

Pride is a first step before heresy. Its always pride first before heresy.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Pride is a first step before heresy. Its always pride first before heresy.

sometimes other errors creep in first . but yes before schisms most certainly pride .

 

[sunlover1]

I desire that we might be one too . but one lesson i learned from my WoFy days is . "positive speaking" needs to be balanced with a serious reality check every so often .

My reality IS positive.
I read the last chapter

i do not wish for the church to be divided but i do recognize that it is .

Well you can do your part and pass it on.
Thanks for the encouragement
I'm trying to type faster than jim.

Yep, in "positive thinking", our flesh search for pleasure, pride, passions and selfish motives.

Guy you need a teaching on grace and mercy!
You're way too hard on yourself

Finally, brothers, whatever is true,
whatever is noble, whatever is right,
whatever is pure, whatever is lovely,
whatever is admirable--
if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--
think about such things.

But they're not bible believing, quite often tradition believing .. but heheheheh was doing a play on words .

And I bet they're wrong on a lot of things.. and I bet i am too

 

[JimfromOhio]

sometimes other errors creep in first . but yes before schisms most certainly pride .

At times errors are taught through ignorance more than pride. Heresy becomes an opportunity for spiritual pride and an occasion of self-conceit where they congratulate themselves for their spirituality.

 

[will_b_true]

I think the point here is .

you do not set God's standard .

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (Romans 3:4)

There is a right way and a wrong way to interpret Scripture.

One is the path to Light.
The other the path to destruction.

The main and plain truths of Scripture are so main and plain that anyone can understand them. God did not hide them in some esoteric form.

Also, Christians have always understood that the Scriptures are self interpretting and to apply modern, personal, meanings to them has led to all kinds of cults, some of which I have named.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

My reality IS positive.
I read the last chapter

my reality is positive . but when i speak of things i need to speak of the way they actually are . i have enough things happening around me at any given moment on top of what is usual .

the church is one spiritually but divided intellectually . and heresy can keep its wig lol . just saying if everyone is a heretic . then maybe we could swallow our pride too .

 

[will_b_true]

At times errors are taught through ignorance more than pride. Heresy becomes an opportunity for spiritual pride and an occasion of self-conceit where they congratulate themselves for their spirituality.

Yes, which is why Proverbs says that the fool rejects correction. And why Paul exhorts Timothy and the elders of the church to be able to teach, rebuke and correct.

 

[will_b_true]

the church is one spiritually

What is the "church"?

What do you mean by that term?