How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[Gregory Thompson]

The most damnable and pernicious heresy that has ever plagued the mind of man was the idea that somehow he could make himself good enough to deserve to live with an all-holy God. Martin Luther

indeed .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes i do believe that this is what heresy is.
But i do not believe that 'each and every one of us is an heretic"
It's just not true and not biblical.

I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you,
that they which are approved may be made manifest among you

The root word for heretic means "to choose"

the passage you quoted could only be fulfilled when the church was one body with one teaching . as we do not need to prove anything to God .

indeed we are all heretics .

 

[will_b_true]

Sure I believe that, except substance lowers God to creation status i'll pick essence i suppose

"Substance" in the vernacular of Nicene Theology does not mean, "material" as you are thinking of...it quite literally means, "essence" or "immaterial stuff".

and your point was?

I'd already made the point. Try reading it again, slower this time.(wink)

God is Love,

Yes and God loves His creation and His sheep enough to quarantine the wicked in hell.

and you know Paul said .. one could possess all the knowledge about everything .. but not have love .. and it's nothing . a resounding gong . just some big talking head loud speaker . and so what?

What do you think love is?

so you can intellectualize it all you want .

The greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, MIND, soul and strength.

So, yes, God's people are to love and worship Him with intellectually with our MINDS too.

but western rationalism is not the lense the bible was written under

So it was written with the lense of eastern mysticism and pantheism that you seem so enthralled with?

Well according to the dictionary definition you are correct

Yes, which is the correct one.

and according to the applied definition i am correct .

By your own distinctive definition and application, not according to God's standard.

 

[sunlover1]

The root word for heretic means "to choose"

the passage you quoted could only be fulfilled when the church was one body with one teaching . as we do not need to prove anything to God .

indeed we are all heretics .

The church still IS one body and there is only one teaching.

I guess i have to disagree with you once again, because I am not
any of the sects. I am a bible believing Christian and I embrace
all bible believing Christians.
Stop calling me an heretic k?

 

[JimfromOhio]

The root word for heretic means "to choose"

the passage you quoted could only be fulfilled when the church was one body with one teaching . as we do not need to prove anything to God .

indeed we are all heretics .

Yep. People often choose their own doctrines because they want to believe it as such whether its true or not.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

not according to God's standard.

I think the point here is .

you do not set God's standard .

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (Romans 3:4)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yep. People often choose their own doctrines because they want to believe it as such whether its true or not.

since there's no standard but God who indwells each unique vessel with its own unique psychology .

the word Heresy has become meaningless .

show me one church for the carnal eyes to see and then this will mean something again .

 

[JimfromOhio]

The church still IS one body and there is only one teaching.

I guess i have to disagree with you once again, because I am not
any of the sects. I am a bible believing Christian and I embrace
all bible believing Christians.
Stop calling me an heretic k?

Bible-believing is an awkward term. Bible-believing has taken on to refer to a particular strand of Christianity that is tied to certain conservative theological and political positions. We are to Honor the Word (not the Bible). When placing a big claim on the Bible, there is a danger of idolatry. The God of the Bible is a jealous God. He makes himself perfectly clear on this point. God is the AUTHOR of the Bible which meant that the Author became WORD in the flesh. The Scribes and Pharisees were guilty of bibliolatry and they did highly honor the words of Scripture (Old Testament). They knew the Book and so tragic that the knowing the words of the Book, knew not its Author. "You know neither me nor my Father," pronounced Jesus. For example, to know the precepts, but not the living God. "Thou shalt love the Bible thy Book with all thine heart, soul, and strength."

I am careful when not to worship the Bible. I worship the Author of the Bible. GOD

 

[sunlover1]

Yep. People often choose their own doctrines because they want to believe it as such whether its true or not.

You say 'they".. you don't do the same?

 

[will_b_true]

Proneness to heresy is not confined to the cults. By our sinful nature, we are all heretics. People often unconsciously select for special attention certain Scriptures that they are familiar with that they forget to check to see the Scriptures for deeper study. Lack of balance scripturally is often the direct consequence of overemphasis on certain favorite passages while ignoring others that are related. We must hold on to the knowledge that all of us are heretics by nature and can never know redeeming truth till we are enlightened and convicted by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures.

I agree, heresy, as used by the Apostles and early church however, did apply to the teaching of false doctrines and practices that led to division, schisms, etc.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The church still IS one body and there is only one teaching.

Well spiritually it is one body .

but there are many many teachings .

you are obviously wrong about the teachings part .

 

[Seeking Him]

Is the accusation of a Jezebel spirit a pentecostal thing?

The Jezebel spirit comes out of the exteme prophetic, latter rain, dominionist groups. If you disagree with their doctrines and practices, instead of healthy debate, they accuse you of this and also of being a pharisee.

There is a man who has signs and wonders in his house, "glory dust". He claims that if you say this substance is not from God then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He doesn't want to honestly look at scripture.

 

[JimfromOhio]

By your own distinctive definition and application, not according to God's standard.

Everyone has an opinion to explain God's standard.

 

[sunlover1]

Bible-believing is an awkward term.

That's alright. I am used to awkward and .. it's all i got man.

how many fingers do you have guy?!
Have you contacted the book of world records for typing!?
Woahhhhhhh

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You say 'they".. you don't do the same?

i think he was teasing me

 

[JimfromOhio]

You say 'they".. you don't do the same?

There are times that I deal with my own "theological bias" just as much as anyone else here.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I am a bible believing Christian and I embrace
all bible believing Christians.

so you embrace all protestants . so you are a heretic to CC and EO etc .

Stop calling me an heretic k?

it is fine to discriminate so long as i discriminate consistently and point the finger at myself also .

so it is fine tee hee

 

[JimfromOhio]

That's alright. I am used to awkward and .. it's all i got man.

how many fingers do you have guy?!
Have you contacted the book of world records for typing!?
Woahhhhhhh

One am one of the fastest typists at work

 

[will_b_true]

Originally Posted by will_b_true

That depends on which flavor you are talking about..

that's a given....
I'm referring to any group who believes we still operate in the "spiritual" things.

Even with that one must look closely at what meaning is poured into "spiritual" for some have some very strange meanings that are gnostic and rather occultic.

As i said, there are bad in any group and we avoid that as well as we can.

If you notice, I have been addressing very specific groups, and not lumping all pentecostals in with them.

 

[sunlover1]

Well spiritually it is one body .

but there are many many teachings .

you are obviously wrong about the teachings part .

Yes, i did post that incorrectly lol.. and yeah, that is obvious.
But they too had such in the early ONE church:

I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you,
that they which are approved may be made manifest among you

And paul speaks of same type of thing in other places as well.
One that comes to mind of course is the "Is Christ divided" speech.

We are not all heretics and it's best if you dont call us such.
I'm sorry to hear it if you are one who chooses to be divided.
I don't choose it and I combat it 24/7

His desire is that we might be one.