Here is why the saints cannot ignore the Commandments of God - not even the TEN

[SayaOtonashi]

Gentiles were not required to keep the law Acts 15:5

 

[SayaOtonashi]

In order of them to keep the law they must be circumcised to keep the law. That is how your under the law.

 

[SayaOtonashi]

Once again the sabbath is the law of Moses.

 

[SayaOtonashi]

circumcised to keep the law of Moses. So yea Sabbath is Moses law so gentiles have to be circumcised.

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

Bob Ryan,
Jesus broke the tradition of the sabbath. Will you also say He was wrong?
As for the Ten Commandments, you are so focused on the details that you've overlooked the big picture.
The Ten Commandments were written at a time when the Israelites were discontent and in need of direct rules. This type of breakdown of rules is no longer necessary for Christians.
If you put Love first in your life then keeping the commandments is a no brainier. It's all action based. You have to do or say something to have sinned. The truth for a Christian is that even harboring negative thoughts and emotions is a sin. I.e. Committing adultery in your mind is just as sinful as doing it in reality. Under these concepts, it is impossible for you to live without sin. You have no recourse but to claim grace. You cannot live by the guidelines of perfect Love. Arguing about simplistic and outdated laws is futile.
Putting God(Love) first in your heart is all that is important. Don't waste your time trying to define perfect obedience, you can't obtain it anyway. (Always strive for perfection)
What's more, you are hurting our fellowship by exposing new Christians to overbearing rules and regulations. You're job is to tell people about the joy and beauty of a carefree life in Christ and to try and convince them to let Jesus into their heart. As they begin to know Love, they will turn away from those things that aren't loving all on their own, through Christs guidance. That's how it works. My heart knows what is good and what is not. I don't need a written guide.

 

[Bob S]

Bob Ryan,
Jesus broke the tradition of the sabbath. Will you also say He was wrong?
As for the Ten Commandments, you are so focused on the details that you've overlooked the big picture.
The Ten Commandments were written at a time when the Israelites were discontent and in need of direct rules. This type of breakdown of rules is no longer necessary for Christians.
If you put Love first in your life then keeping the commandments is a no brainier. It's all action based. You have to do or say something to have sinned. The truth for a Christian is that even harboring negative thoughts and emotions is a sin. I.e. Committing adultery in your mind is just as sinful as doing it in reality. Under these concepts, it is impossible for you to live without sin. You have no recourse but to claim grace. You cannot live by the guidelines of perfect Love. Arguing about simplistic and outdated laws is futile.
Putting God(Love) first in your heart is all that is important. Don't waste your time trying to define perfect obedience, you can't obtain it anyway. (Always strive for perfection)
What's more, you are hurting our fellowship by exposing new Christians to overbearing rules and regulations. You're job is to tell people about the joy and beauty of a carefree life in Christ and to try and convince them to let Jesus into their heart. As they begin to know Love, they will turn away from those things that aren't loving all on their own, through Christs guidance. That's how it works. My heart knows what is good and what is not. I don't need a written guide.

I wonder if all the SDA Sabbath "keepers" confess every Sabbath that they have broken the laws pertaining to "keeping"? Their prophet wrote that every sin must be confessed or they will not enter Heaven.

Failure to Apply Reproof to Oneself—"Do not appeal to your own sympathies. Do not dwell upon what Brother J has done or has neglected to do. Humble your own heart before God. You are not to sit in judgment upon the case of others until you show greater wisdom in making straight paths for your own feet. You may say, “Does Sister White think me all bad?” No, I do not; but one blot upon the character, one sin unconfessed and unrepented of, will close for you the gates of the city of God. You had light; you had knowledge, but did not choose to appropriate it. It meant someone else, not you. I love your soul, and I beseech you not to be deceived, but to see that you must follow the Lord with undivided heart." {12MR 40.3}

 

[BobRyan]

Gentiles were not required to keep the law Acts 15:5

Yes they are Ephesians 6:2, Rev 14:12, Rom 3:31,

Acts 15 was not an attempt to delete God's Law.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 the 'saints KEEP the Commandments of God"

Romans 8:4-9 says it is only the lost that "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

James 2 lists commandments NOT in Acts 15,
Eph 6:2 -- command not found in Acts 15.
Romans 13 - commandments not found in Acts 15

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan,
Jesus broke the tradition of the sabbath. Will you also say He was wrong?
.

Jesus never broke the law of God - he broke the traditions of man.

1 John 3:4 says "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

Jesus did not sin.

The Ten Commandments were written at a time when the Israelites were discontent and in need of direct rules. This type of breakdown of rules is no longer necessary for Christians.

Until you read the NT. (tiny example found here -
9 minutes ago #127 )

The doctrine and teaching of Christ is to condemn those who attack/bend/edit/downsize the Commandments of God.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


See the Bible texts in the OP of this thread "at least"

 

[disciple1]

Jesus said "IF you love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"

1 John 5:1-4 we show Love to God and love to the children of God - by keeping God's Commandments

Rev 14:12 - the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



Just enough so that those who agree with the text can post agreement and those opposed to it - can post their opposition.

Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
Jesus said "IF you love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15

Jesus' John 14:15 statement is a quote from the OT - Ex 20:6.




The same commandments we see in Mark 7:6-13.

The same commandments we see in Eph 6:2 where the FIFTH commandment is the FIRST commandment with a promise!

in Christ,

Bob

John chapter 13
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
1 peter chapter 4
8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[BobRyan]

Lev 19:18 -- "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Matt 22 - Christ said "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Romans 13 -- "Love your neighbor as yourself".
James 2:8 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Seems like a few people knew about this - OT and NT.

But it is not in Acts 15.

How do we know that we love the saints and love God -- according to John?

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and KEEP His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14;15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

 

[bugkiller]

Jesus said "IF you love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"

1 John 5:1-4 we show Love to God and love to the children of God - by keeping God's Commandments

Rev 14:12 - the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



Just enough so that those who agree with the text can post agreement and those opposed to it - can post their opposition.

Bob, Jesus isn't the Father. Jesus didn't issue the words found in Ex 20. John 15;10 clearly show the commandments of the OT aren't issued by Jesus. And so does John 1:17. John isn't influenced by Paul. As to Rev 14:12 you and John aren't talking about the same commandments.

Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
Jesus said "IF you love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15

Jesus' John 14:15 statement is a quote from the OT - Ex 20:6.

Nope! Both are incidental to each other at best.

The same commandments we see in Mark 7:6-13.

Nope!! And we don't need a dose of false condemnation, either. It will get you no where here.

The same commandments we see in Eph 6:2 where the FIFTH commandment is the FIRST commandment with a promise!

So what does this prove? Nothing except your proving Paul to be a complete idiot and false prophet because your contention disagrees violently with Rom 7:6.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

According to the actual Bible?

Yeppers!!!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Let's evaluate that claim "sola scriptura" --

1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)

2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.

3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.

4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week-day-1 to week-day-1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath - for all eternity.

5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.

6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.

7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.

8. There is not ONE text in OT or NT saying "week-day-1 is now the Sabbath" or "week-day-1 is the Sabbath" or "week-day-1 is the NEW Sabbath" but we do have Ex 20:8-11 "The Seventh-day IS the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God"

So sorry for you that the Bible wasn't written for a legalist.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

io

Yes they are Ephesians 6:2, Rev 14:12, Rom 3:31,

Nope!!

Acts 15 was not an attempt to delete God's Law.

Who said it was?

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Yep that correct people, we don't need Jesus. heehhehehaw! Just another partial quote out fo context to make the Scripture an unbelievable lie.

Rev 14:12 the 'saints KEEP the Commandments of God"

You and John the Revelator are talking about 2 different sets of commandments. I John 3:23 has already been quoted for you.

Romans 8:4-9 says it is only the lost that "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

Nope!!! it doesn't say that at all. Just another partial and out of context quote/

James 2 lists commandments NOT in Acts 15,

So what's yer point?

Eph 6:2 -- command not found in Acts 15.

ditto

Romans 13 - commandments not found in Acts 15

ditto

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Lev 19:18 -- "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Matt 22 - Christ said "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Romans 13 -- "Love your neighbor as yourself".
James 2:8 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Seems like a few people knew about this - OT and NT.

But it is not in Acts 15.

How do we know that we love the saints and love God -- according to John?

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and KEEP His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14;15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

Nothing new here. You know Bob I simply must get around to c & P responses to your same posts.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Let's evaluate that claim "sola scriptura" --

1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)

2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.

3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.

4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week-day-1 to week-day-1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath - for all eternity.

5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.

6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.

7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.

8. There is not ONE text in OT or NT saying "week-day-1 is now the Sabbath" or "week-day-1 is the Sabbath" or "week-day-1 is the NEW Sabbath" but we do have Ex 20:8-11 "The Seventh-day IS the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God"

========================

That is "irrefutable"--

And a "trend" that develops is that irrefutable details should get the "fluff response" under the "strategy" that any response at all will suffice to argue that the irrefutable post can no longer exist, can no longer be posted -- no one should be reminded of it.

So sorry for you that the Bible wasn't written for a legalist.
bugkiller

That is a good example of why you cannot repeat fluff when substance is posted as if this will prove your point.

The "irrefutable post" shows sola scriptura in favor of the Bible details on weekly observances -- and the response??... the substance in the response?....

Well it is not the sort of thing one would want to keep reminding the readers about - that is for sure.

Nothing new here. You know Bob I simply must get around to c & P responses to your same posts.
bugkiller

You make my point -- again.

 

[BobRyan]

Those who suppose that the "best response" is providing nothing substantive at all to support their opposition to the bible details on the subject of a weekly day of worship .... merely support the argument in favor of the bible details when the posts are read by the objective unbiased readers.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, Jesus isn't the Father. Jesus didn't issue the words found in Ex 20.

Until you read Hebrews 8:6-10 where we are told that it is CHRIST that freed the slaves in Egypt, lead them by the hand - and made the covenant at Sinai.

(An answer posted dozens of times -- with no substantive response to it so far - except to circle-back to the initial failed claim already answered)

 

[BobRyan]

Lev 19:18 -- "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Matt 22 - Christ said "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Romans 13 -- "Love your neighbor as yourself".
James 2:8 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Seems like a few people knew about this - OT and NT.

But it is not in Acts 15.

How do we know that we love the saints and love God -- according to John?

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and KEEP His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14;15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

ioNope!!Who said it was?Yep that correct people, we don't need Jesus. heehhehehaw!

Can't believe this is the sort of "substance" that the opposition to the TEN Commandments would voluntarily post.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't object to the texts.
I object to the partial quteing of the text in order to twist them while ignoring many others.

bugkiller

Sabbatarians are good at that and why they are so difficult to debate with, much like the JWs and Mormons do, IMHO........


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