Hell.

[Montalban]

No. Hell is separation from God. I have been there...

Lucky you got a round-way ticket

 

[Timothew]

Only if you rely solely on Paul's one verse that you've quoted and ignore Revelations etc. that I cited I could then understand your POV.

It isn't just one verse in Romans. It's all over the bible. Read "perish" in John 3:16. Destruction in 2 Thess 1:9. Jesus says in Luke that unless you repent you will likewise perish. Ezekiel says the person who sins will die.
If I ignore the whole Bible, then I can accept your POV.

Do you think that in 'eternal life' you'll have a house, a car, a good breakfast, etc.? Or is it a 'spiritual' life?

In "Eternal Life" I'll have life instead of death. Do you think that in Eternal Life you won't have life?

Then you're saying that they will be eternally tortured, but no one else?

No. Sodom and Gemorrah were not eternally tortured. They were destroyed.
Are you saying that S & G are eternally tormented? The bible doesn't say that they were.

How long will someone be burned in the lake until they feel nothing?

You don't understand what the lake of fire is. According to the Book of Revelation, The lake of fire is the second death.

 

[Timothew]

There are always anomalies Timothew and I absolutely accept that as a fact...
...I'm talking about "denominations" & how the ones who claim "soul sleep".
...Advocate EXACTLY what I said they did.

So what? I believe EXACTLY what the bible says. The wages of sin is death. There is no hell of eternal torture.

 

[Pythons]

So what? I believe EXACTLY what the bible says. The wages of sin is death. There is no hell of eternal torture.

The Bible says other than what you are claiming it does....
....But we know this don't we.

 

[Timothew]

The Bible says other than what you are claiming it does....
....But we know this don't we.

The wages of sin is death. The Bible says it. I believe it. Read Romans 6:23 where it says (ahem, quote) "The wages of sin is death."

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[Timothew]

I won't have to tell Him.

Yes He will be pleased that I have warned others.

He won't be disappointed in those who warn others. He commanded us to warn others. But He will not be pleased with those who don't warn.

They can repent and avoid Hell. How can I lose?

It's not about you. It's about those who die without Christ because of you.

 

[dollarsbill]

It's not about you. It's about those who die without Christ because of you.

Proverbs 9:10 (NASB)
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

 

[Timothew]

Proverbs 9:10 (NASB)
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I agree. And the words of the bible are there to give a person understanding. But if the words are dedefined to mean the opposite of what they say, no knowledge is generated.
"These pay the penalty of eternal destruction." This means that the penalty is eternal destruction, not eternal torture in hell.

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

I agree. And the words of the bible are there to give a person understanding. But if the words are dedefined to mean the opposite of what they say, no knowledge is generated.
"These pay the penalty of eternal destruction." This means that the penalty is eternal destruction, not eternal torture in hell.

This comment may go unnoticed, but I feel the need to say it anyway!

We can go back and forth between each other forever, arguing about how WE THINK GOD would do something, but in reality, this is God's judgement, God's punishment, HIS WAY ~ not ours. There are just some aspects of His will that we are not meant to fully understand! Besides that, the bible was written for God's people ~ those who have accepted Christ as their Savior, and received the Holy Spirit to guide us to what is righteous and true. If His people are saved, is arguing about where the unsaved are going to spend eternity really all that productive? How does that glorify God?

With that said, we must remember that God's word is inerrant. It is our interpretation that is in error. God's Word trumps man's comprehension ~ hands down!

Luke 1:37
For no word from God will ever fail.

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

(The discovery of evidence to support a theory is only good until the discovery of new evidence which has the potential to falsify the previous conclusion.. and this applies not only to our understanding of the world around us, but also to our understanding of heavenly things... )

Blessings and peace to all..

 

[dollarsbill]

I agree. And the words of the bible are there to give a person understanding. But if the words are dedefined to mean the opposite of what they say, no knowledge is generated.
"These pay the penalty of eternal destruction." This means that the penalty is eternal destruction, not eternal torture in hell.

Who are these who are "tormented day and night forever and ever."?

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Timothew]

Who are these who are "tormented day and night forever and ever."?

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

According to the Apocalyptic Book of Revelation, they are the devil, the beast and the false prophet.

According to Jesus, "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish." Perish does not mean to be tortured alive forever.

 

[dollarsbill]

According to the Apocalyptic Book of Revelation, they are the devil, the beast and the false prophet.

Thank you for confirming eternal punishment.

 

[Timothew]

Thank you for confirming eternal punishment.

No problem.

However, for people, according to the bible and to Jesus the lost perish. They are not eternally tortured.

The wages of sin is death, unless you repent you will likewise perish, these pay the penalty of eternal destruction.

According to Jesus, "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish." Perish does not mean to be tortured alive forever.

 

[dollarsbill]

No problem.

No problem? Didn't you say that eternal punishment is 'sadistic'?

 

[Timothew]

No problem? Didn't you say that eternal punishment is 'sadistic'?

I don't specifically remember saying that, but yes. Eternal Torture is sadistic. Death is an eternal punishment that is not sadistic. Don't you agree?

 

[dollarsbill]

I don't specifically remember saying that, but yes. Eternal Torture is sadistic.

You admitted that the NT teaches eternal punishment and you say eternal punishment is 'sadistic'. How are you not calling God sadistic?

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

Yep. Invisible!

 

[he-man]

We can go back and forth between each other forever, arguing about how WE THINK GOD would do something, but in reality, this is God's judgement, God's punishment, HIS WAY ~ not ours. Blessings and peace to all..

Sorry to blow your bubble but God does not torture. The myth came from A judge named Minos receives the dead from Hermes Psykhogogos (Leader of the Souls), and sentences the most wicked to eternal torment.
Tartaros was secured with a surrounding wall of bronze set with a pair of gates, guarded by the hundred-handed Hekatonkheir giants, warders of the Titanes.

Through the gates of Tartaros passed Nyx (goddess of the Night) who emerged to wrap the earth in darkness, and also her daughter Hemera (Day), who scattered the mists of night.

The Pit sired a child, Typhoeus, a monstrous serpentine storm-giant who attempted to seize heaven. Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the Pit.

Pluto (French Pluton and Italian Plutone) is commonly used as the name of the classical ruler of the underworld in subsequent Western literature and other art forms. Hansen, Classical Mythology, p. 182

Euphemism is a substitute characteristic way of speaking of divine figures associated with the dead and the underworld; Joseph William Hewitt, "The Propitiation of Zeus,"

In ancient Greek mythology and religion the DOMOS HAIDOU or "realm of Haides" was the land of the dead, the final resting place for departed souls. It was a dark and dismal realm in which bodiless ghosts flitted across grey fields of asphodel. The Homeric poets knew of no Islands of the Blessed or Elysian fields, or for that matter a Tartarean hell, instead all the spirits, including those of the great heroes, descended into Haides.

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

Sorry to blow your bubble but God does not torture. The myth came from A judge named Minos receives the dead from Hermes Psykhogogos (Leader of the Souls), and sentences the most wicked to eternal torment.
Tartaros was secured with a surrounding wall of bronze set with a pair of gates, guarded by the hundred-handed Hekatonkheir giants, warders of the Titanes.

Through the gates of Tartaros passed Nyx (goddess of the Night) who emerged to wrap the earth in darkness, and also her daughter Hemera (Day), who scattered the mists of night.

The Pit sired a child, Typhoeus, a monstrous serpentine storm-giant who attempted to seize heaven. Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the Pit.

Pluto (French Pluton and Italian Plutone) is commonly used as the name of the classical ruler of the underworld in subsequent Western literature and other art forms. Hansen, Classical Mythology, p. 182

Euphemism is a substitute characteristic way of speaking of divine figures associated with the dead and the underworld; Joseph William Hewitt, "The Propitiation of Zeus,"

In ancient Greek mythology and religion the DOMOS HAIDOU or "realm of Haides" was the land of the dead, the final resting place for departed souls. It was a dark and dismal realm in which bodiless ghosts flitted across grey fields of asphodel. The Homeric poets knew of no Islands of the Blessed or Elysian fields, or for that matter a Tartarean hell, instead all the spirits, including those of the great heroes, descended into Haides.

I never said in that post either way.. I think you missed the point. I just meant it may not be for us to know exactly what God's way is, and it not a point that should drive a wedge between brothers in Christ.

Blessings to you!