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Hell.
- Thread starter brinny
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It's all good.
We are just discussing what the bible says. I don't know if you will lose out on eternal life or not. I hope not, eternal life would be dull without you, dollarsbill.
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If it turns out (despite what the bible says) that there is a hell of eternal torture, we won't go be tortured there for merely not believing in it, will we?
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Soulgazer
Christian Gnostic
I suspect that heaven would be a more appropriate topic. Yet, i see many threads dedicated to the anti-heaven.
If i were god, who would I want in heaven? All of my children who would grow up to be loving gods. Animal and child and spouse abusers, haters,warmongers, trouble for the sake of trouble, you get to entertain yourselves elsewhere. You might call it hell, if you were a bully in a world of bullies. But you won't bother the meek.
If i were god, who would I want in heaven? All of my children who would grow up to be loving gods. Animal and child and spouse abusers, haters,warmongers, trouble for the sake of trouble, you get to entertain yourselves elsewhere. You might call it hell, if you were a bully in a world of bullies. But you won't bother the meek.
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I think its important to get the hell of out church. At least the false hell of eternal torture.
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Montalban
Well-Known Member
So you keep saying
No. That's still the same argument - it's completely circular. Your reading 'is' scriptural. Everyone else's isn't.
Then you're setting yourself up - a fallible man - to be the only judge of what is true.
Because your view of 'death' has no consequences. It's in fact the end of consequences.
And, people cease to be 'separated from God' because they cease to be.
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Because it's what the bible says! Sheol is the grave.
Well, if you insist on counting noses to determine truth, more and more people are finding out that the hell of eternal torture doesn't exist.
My argument isn't circular, it's linear! The bible says that the wages of sin is death, I believe that, therefore the wages of sin is NOT eternal torture in hell.
This is not true, The scriptures are true, and I believe them. You are not the judge of what is true, nor are some guys you know in a church.
This is not true. There is a huge consequence. Can't you see it? The consequence of eternal death is not having eternal life with Jesus Christ our Lord! As a Christian, you have to admit that missing out on eternal life with our Lord is a HUGE consequence!
Well, death as "separation from God" is your definition, not mine or the bible's. But I don't see how ceasing to be can be ceasing "to be separated from God." If anything, ceasing to be is the obvious way to be separated from God, who is eternal and omnipresent.
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And you have not shown that God will torture anyone.
You keep saying that I am mistaken. But you haven't said anything to show how I am wrong. I believe that the bible is true. You say I'm mistaken. I still believe the bible is true, regardless of what you say.
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Please provide the chapter and verse for this bold claim!
My bible says that God is not willing that any perish but that all should come to repentance.
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Montalban
Well-Known Member
Thank you for proving my point re: circular logic.
That is exactly what I did not do. I simply suggested that it might point to you being wrong. This is how sanity is often checked. If you think that there's an elephant in the backyard, yet no one else can see it then perhaps the problem would be with you, and not the others who can't see it.
ROFL. You do not know what circular reasoning is, then.
Circular arguments are based on themselves for proof.
Your version of the bible is the bible because it is because it is because it is.
Except for all the passages that argue otherwise. I reconcile them by understanding that 'death' here is a death to God (as explained twice by saying that some might say 'you are dead to me'). You reconcile the two by ignoring those texts that don't agree with your interpretation.
Again, that's circular logic.
Not existing is no consequence. If I ceased to exist then I wouldn't be feeling any consequences of being separarted from God because I wouldn't exist!!!
Again this is based on a misunderstanding of what it means for God to be omnipresent.
If I close my eyes to the sun and I can't see what is all around me it doesn't cease to exist simply because I stop seeing it!
One can close one's self to what is all around.
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dollarsbill
Well-Known Member
Strong warnings against removal from God's Word.
Revelation 22:19 (NASB)
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
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dollarsbill
Well-Known Member
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What you are saying is not logical, nor is it biblical.Thank you for proving my point re: circular logic.
That is exactly what I did not do. I simply suggested that it might point to you being wrong. This is how sanity is often checked. If you think that there's an elephant in the backyard, yet no one else can see it then perhaps the problem would be with you, and not the others who can't see it.
ROFL. You do not know what circular reasoning is, then.
Circular arguments are based on themselves for proof.
Your version of the bible is the bible because it is because it is because it is.
Except for all the passages that argue otherwise. I reconcile them by understanding that 'death' here is a death to God (as explained twice by saying that some might say 'you are dead to me'). You reconcile the two by ignoring those texts that don't agree with your interpretation.
Again, that's circular logic.
Not existing is no consequence. If I ceased to exist then I wouldn't be feeling any consequences of being separarted from God because I wouldn't exist!!!
Again this is based on a misunderstanding of what it means for God to be omnipresent.
If I close my eyes to the sun and I can't see what is all around me it doesn't cease to exist simply because I stop seeing it!
One can close one's self to what is all around.
I never said the sun ceases to exist if you close your eyes.
If you believe that not having eternal life with Christ is no consequence, that's your problem
You keep saying "circular reasoning", You don't know what that means. I've provided the proof from the bible. you just don't accept it.
You and I should stop discussing this. Your church won't allow you to come to any other conclusion than the one you already have. So what's the point? You hold to your circular reasoning. You are saying "my church is right because my church is right." Report this, it is your way.
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Well then, you should pay close attention to what the bible says.
The wages of sin is death.
These pay the penalty of eternal destruction.
Unless you repent, you will likewise perish.
The soul that sins will die.
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That's just sad. You are in effect saying that Jesus is nothing, if losing Him is no consequence. I'm sorry, but I disagree.
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