HELL

[Rescued One]

When do sinners leave hell?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Assume much?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

When do sinners leave hell?

Loaded question. Depends on one's theological view. My view is , if a person finds themselves in eternal darkness they stay there. I don't think time passes in the next life.
Be blessed.

 

[Dan Perez]

Assume much?

And in. Revaltion 20:15 and all that are NOT //. OU. IS A DISJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE means NEVERRRRR
found in the BOOK OF LIFE will be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE !!

DAN P

 

[Rescued One]

EXCUSE MY TYPING. MY VISION IS VERY POOR AND i CAN'T GET MY KEY BOARD TO COOPERATE.

i THINK HELL IS ETERNAL AND THAT IF GOD LOVES EVERYONE, NO ONE GOES TO HELL. HELP ME UNDERSTAND TRUTH.

 

[Junotheservant]

EXCUSE MY TYPING. MY VISION IS VERY POOR AND i CAN'T GET MY KEY BOARD TO COOPERATE.

i THINK HELL IS ETERNAL AND THAT IF GOD LOVES EVERYONE, NO ONE GOES TO HELL. HELP ME UNDERSTAND TRUTH.

Well let's see what the bible says:

Spoiler: Matthew 25 - 31 - 34

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

So the people on the right are the ones that God loves. Let's see about the people on the left.

Spoiler: Matthew 25: 41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

1st thing we need to understand is that the Lake of fire is a type of Hell prepared for the Devil and his angels so God did not prepare this for man. He never intended to punish man. That's why he is currently suffering with man trying to get people to repent. The issue is man is letting Satan have dominion over them and therefore man become evil just like the Devil.

Spoiler: Isaiah 33: 10 -14

10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.

11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.

12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.

13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

The Lake of fire is an eternal place where we will not escape. Also since mankind is choosing the Devil as their father then God does not love everyone.

 

[Mark Quayle]

EXCUSE MY TYPING. MY VISION IS VERY POOR AND i CAN'T GET MY KEY BOARD TO COOPERATE.

i THINK HELL IS ETERNAL AND THAT IF GOD LOVES EVERYONE, NO ONE GOES TO HELL. HELP ME UNDERSTAND TRUTH.

Who says God loves everyone? None of us deserve better than anyone else—that's true. But God chooses some upon whom to show mercy, (and even that is for his own sake), and upon those he places his love.

But, let's grant for arguments sake that the things the Bible does say, that sound to some like God loves everyone, do indeed mean that God loves everyone—must this mean that we know with what sort of love he loves them, or that he loves them all equally and in the same way?

 

[Mark Quayle]

And in. Revaltion 20:15 and all that are NOT //. OU. IS A DISJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE means NEVERRRRR
found in the BOOK OF LIFE will be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE !!

DAN P

The way the question was posed, assumes that they do leave hell at some point. It doesn't ask whether they do, but WHEN they do.

 

[Rescued One]

Does God love the world or only part of it?

 

[ViaCrucis]

When do sinners leave hell?

Depending on one's stance on the subject:

1) Never
2) Eventually

I think it's important that I emphasize the ways in which I sympathize with a universalist sentiment. I don't want anyone to be in hell. I hope and pray nobody is. And I hope that, perhaps, it may be the case that ultimately hell is empty.

But I can't, in good conscience, actually claim any of these things.

In truth there is little we can say, from a totally dogmatic perspective. But, and one might argue that this is pessimism, others might see it as realism; I suspect there will be many who actively desire and choose to be in hell forever. Even allowing the possibility that hell could be temporal, the truly horrifying reality of sin and fallen human nature is there are those who--regardless of anything and everything--actively, deliberately, want hell.

I'll also add: Hell is always a deliberate choice. I don't think there will be anyone in hell who does not want to be there.

Hell is not the absence of God's love, Hell is not a deprivation of God's love. God still loves all, unconditionally, even the most contemptable sinners who rot away in deepest darkest Hell.

 

[Rescued One]

Who says God loves everyone? None of us deserve better than anyone else—that's true. But God chooses some upon whom to show mercy, (and even that is for his own sake), and upon those he places his love.

But, let's grant for arguments sake that the things the Bible does say, that sound to some like God loves everyone, do indeed mean that God loves everyone—must this mean that we know with what sort of love he loves them, or that he loves them all equally and in the same way?

I tend to follow you.

 

[bling]

Does God love the world or only part of it?

God's Love is beyond our imagination, being the epitome of Love, so yes God Loves everyone, so that brings up your question, "How could anyone go and stay in hell.
This all goes back to the basic questions: "Why are we here and not starting out in heaven" and "why did God make us in the first place", so what is our objective?
Free will or will or autonomous free will ability to chose either way between two or more alternatives is a God given miraculous limited gift from God to all mature adults. Man is not biologically capable of developing such a gift, but God is powerful and Loving enough to gift mature humans with this gift for at least a while. This gift can be limited to the point that the choice made is only a mental choice which is never carried out or allowed to impact other humans.

This very limited mental ability is need for mature adults to obtain Godly type Love and thus fulfill man’s earthly object and have a reason for being on earth for a while.

Man’s objective drives everything.

This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing humans to fulfill their earthly objective.

I see our time here on earth being extremely significant for humans and significant enough for God to allow a willing Christ to be tortured, humiliated and cruelly murdered to help humans.

Adam and Eve were made “very good” by God’s standard of “very good”, which I would say: “The best two made beings could be made.” Christ is perfect, but Christ is not a made being, but deity, so God cannot make clones of a perfect Christ.

Adam and Eve lacked one very important attribute which could keep them from sinning, but that attribute is something even God cannot gift them instinctively, because it must be humbly accepted of their own free will, let me explain:

Unfortunately, sin has purpose and appears to be needed for all mature adults (which Adam and Eve showed themselves and us) to help those who are willing to fulfill their earthly objective.

Starting with God is Love (the epitome of Love), which means God is totally unselfish and is not doing stuff for His own sake, but is doing everything for the sake of willing human, which is also God’s desire and might be referred to as, His sake.

God would be doing or allowing everything to help humans who are just willing (seeking) to accept His help to fulfill their earthly objective.

So, God allows evil to happen, to help humans, but God also allowed Christ to go to the cross to help humans.

There is really nothing you (a created being) can “do” to help the Creator, but you can allow, of your own free will, God to help you, which is God’s desire, since God is a huge giver of gifts.

You can take any command given in scripture and have Biblical support for calling it “Man’s objective” since God said this is what man is to do, but there is one (more like two) commands all other commands are under.

Man’s objective is found in the God given Mission statement of: Loving God (and secondly Loving others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy. To fulfill that mission man must first obtain Godly type Love which will make man like God Himself in that man will Love like God Loves. Would becoming like God Himself not be the greatest gift we could receive?

The objective is not to, never ever sin, but to obtain this Godly type Love is the first of man’s objectives and then grow that Love, which this messed up world is the best place for it to happen.

The Adam and Eve story helps our understanding. Most people go through a time in which they ask: “How could a Loving God allow such a thing”, which means “why does God not start us all out in a Garden type situation without, needy people, limited resources, death, and questions about His existence?”

What we can do is thank Adam and Eve for showing us and them that what we might consider the ideal situation is a lousy situation for man to fulfill his earthly objective. Adam and Eve as our very best all human representatives did not fulfill the objective while sinless in the Garden and really could not. The situation after sinning outside the Garden did provide a way to fulfill the objective.

This might need further explanation:

Humans are created with a needed survival instinct, giving eternal life value, but that also makes them self-aware, concerned, have some degree of selfishness and even pride. Humans will do almost anything sometimes to avoid having to humble themselves to the point of accepting pure sacrificial charity. Adam and Eve prior to sinning had no reason to humble themselves to the point of accepting pure undeserved charity since that had done nothing wrong and the father God would have just responsibility to care for them. Sadly, it is only after sinning Adam and Eve will have a strong reason to be humble before God. They might still not like God, but they can wimp out, give up and surrender to God as their enemy.

Some might ask: “Adam and Eve were not ‘commanded’ to Love God and others, so how can that be their objective?” If you command your children to “Agape type Love you” would that help them to “Love you”?

I use the word “objective” and not “purpose” even though they can be used the same way, for I see a rock as having a purpose, but not having an objective. We are here to fulfill some objectives, which I see humans only being able to fulfill here on earth.

There are just somethings even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like God cannot make another Christ since Christ is not a created being. The big inability for us is to be created with instinctive (programmed) Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type love. This Love must be the result of a free will moral choice with real likely alternatives (for humans on earth those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)

This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burdens them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus (Luke 7: 36-50) and our own experience he that is forgiven much will Love much. Sin is thus made hugely significant (this includes hell), so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

This messed up world is the very best place for seeking mature adult individuals to see, receive, give, experience, accept and grow Godly type Love. All these tragedies provide opportunities for Love, but that does not mean we go around causing opportunities, since we are to be ceasing these opportunities (there are plenty of opportunities) to show/experience Love.

I and other must have opportunities at our doorstep to respond with Love, if I would just cease the opportunities at some distance there might be fewer opportunities (tragedies) needed for me, so if you want to blame someone for all these tragedies blame me for not ceasing earlier.

Hell and/or annihilation does nothing for the people going to hell nor God, but that was their choice since they kept refusing to accept God’s help (forgiveness, Love, grace, mercy, charity) to the point they will never humbly accept it. Hell does help some willing individuals to not put off their acceptance of God’s help and that seems to be the reason bad people who will never change stay around on earth and go to hell.

We are not making some honorable, worthy, righteous, or holy choice to accept God’s forgiveness, since sin burdens us and we just want undeserved relief from our pain and burden. The sinner is actually making that prodigal son’s choice of just selfishly (which is a sin) wanting to continue living. If we were really macho we would willingly accept the punishment we fully deserve and not both God again with our wants.

In order to be forgiven of sin you must first sin, so sin is necessary, but not desired.

Introduction

 

[chilehed]

When do sinners leave hell?

They don't.

 

[Rescued One]

God's Love is beyond our imagination, being the epitome of Love, so yes God Loves everyone, so that brings up your question, "How could anyone go and stay in hell.
This all goes back to the basic questions: "Why are we here and not starting out in heaven" and "why did God make us in the first place", so what is our objective?
Free will or will or autonomous free will ability to chose either way between two or more alternatives is a God given miraculous limited gift from God to all mature adults. Man is not biologically capable of developing such a gift, but God is powerful and Loving enough to gift mature humans with this gift for at least a while. This gift can be limited to the point that the choice made is only a mental choice which is never carried out or allowed to impact other humans.

This very limited mental ability is need for mature adults to obtain Godly type Love and thus fulfill man’s earthly object and have a reason for being on earth for a while.

Man’s objective drives everything.

This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing humans to fulfill their earthly objective.

I see our time here on earth being extremely significant for humans and significant enough for God to allow a willing Christ to be tortured, humiliated and cruelly murdered to help humans.

Adam and Eve were made “very good” by God’s standard of “very good”, which I would say: “The best two made beings could be made.” Christ is perfect, but Christ is not a made being, but deity, so God cannot make clones of a perfect Christ.

Adam and Eve lacked one very important attribute which could keep them from sinning, but that attribute is something even God cannot gift them instinctively, because it must be humbly accepted of their own free will, let me explain:

Unfortunately, sin has purpose and appears to be needed for all mature adults (which Adam and Eve showed themselves and us) to help those who are willing to fulfill their earthly objective.

Starting with God is Love (the epitome of Love), which means God is totally unselfish and is not doing stuff for His own sake, but is doing everything for the sake of willing human, which is also God’s desire and might be referred to as, His sake.

God would be doing or allowing everything to help humans who are just willing (seeking) to accept His help to fulfill their earthly objective.

So, God allows evil to happen, to help humans, but God also allowed Christ to go to the cross to help humans.

There is really nothing you (a created being) can “do” to help the Creator, but you can allow, of your own free will, God to help you, which is God’s desire, since God is a huge giver of gifts.

You can take any command given in scripture and have Biblical support for calling it “Man’s objective” since God said this is what man is to do, but there is one (more like two) commands all other commands are under.

Man’s objective is found in the God given Mission statement of: Loving God (and secondly Loving others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy. To fulfill that mission man must first obtain Godly type Love which will make man like God Himself in that man will Love like God Loves. Would becoming like God Himself not be the greatest gift we could receive?

The objective is not to, never ever sin, but to obtain this Godly type Love is the first of man’s objectives and then grow that Love, which this messed up world is the best place for it to happen.

The Adam and Eve story helps our understanding. Most people go through a time in which they ask: “How could a Loving God allow such a thing”, which means “why does God not start us all out in a Garden type situation without, needy people, limited resources, death, and questions about His existence?”

What we can do is thank Adam and Eve for showing us and them that what we might consider the ideal situation is a lousy situation for man to fulfill his earthly objective. Adam and Eve as our very best all human representatives did not fulfill the objective while sinless in the Garden and really could not. The situation after sinning outside the Garden did provide a way to fulfill the objective.

This might need further explanation:

Humans are created with a needed survival instinct, giving eternal life value, but that also makes them self-aware, concerned, have some degree of selfishness and even pride. Humans will do almost anything sometimes to avoid having to humble themselves to the point of accepting pure sacrificial charity. Adam and Eve prior to sinning had no reason to humble themselves to the point of accepting pure undeserved charity since that had done nothing wrong and the father God would have just responsibility to care for them. Sadly, it is only after sinning Adam and Eve will have a strong reason to be humble before God. They might still not like God, but they can wimp out, give up and surrender to God as their enemy.

Some might ask: “Adam and Eve were not ‘commanded’ to Love God and others, so how can that be their objective?” If you command your children to “Agape type Love you” would that help them to “Love you”?

I use the word “objective” and not “purpose” even though they can be used the same way, for I see a rock as having a purpose, but not having an objective. We are here to fulfill some objectives, which I see humans only being able to fulfill here on earth.

There are just somethings even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like God cannot make another Christ since Christ is not a created being. The big inability for us is to be created with instinctive (programmed) Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type love. This Love must be the result of a free will moral choice with real likely alternatives (for humans on earth those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)

This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burdens them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus (Luke 7: 36-50) and our own experience he that is forgiven much will Love much. Sin is thus made hugely significant (this includes hell), so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

This messed up world is the very best place for seeking mature adult individuals to see, receive, give, experience, accept and grow Godly type Love. All these tragedies provide opportunities for Love, but that does not mean we go around causing opportunities, since we are to be ceasing these opportunities (there are plenty of opportunities) to show/experience Love.

I and other must have opportunities at our doorstep to respond with Love, if I would just cease the opportunities at some distance there might be fewer opportunities (tragedies) needed for me, so if you want to blame someone for all these tragedies blame me for not ceasing earlier.

Hell and/or annihilation does nothing for the people going to hell nor God, but that was their choice since they kept refusing to accept God’s help (forgiveness, Love, grace, mercy, charity) to the point they will never humbly accept it. Hell does help some willing individuals to not put off their acceptance of God’s help and that seems to be the reason bad people who will never change stay around on earth and go to hell.

We are not making some honorable, worthy, righteous, or holy choice to accept God’s forgiveness, since sin burdens us and we just want undeserved relief from our pain and burden. The sinner is actually making that prodigal son’s choice of just selfishly (which is a sin) wanting to continue living. If we were really macho we would willingly accept the punishment we fully deserve and not both God again with our wants.

In order to be forgiven of sin you must first sin, so sin is necessary, but not desired.

Introduction

I don't buy it! I believe that Ephesians 2 is more reliable. God gets the glory 100%.

 

[bling]

I don't buy it! I believe that Ephesians 2 is more reliable. God gets the glory 100%.

Right! There is no glory for humans selfishly (sinfully) accepting pure undeserved charity as charity.

 

[Rescued One]

God is Sovereign and has the right to forgive sin and make new creatures out of old ones.

 

[bling]

God is Sovereign and has the right to forgive sin and make new creatures out of old ones.

There are somethings that are impossible to do, not even God can make another Jesus, since Jesus is not a made being. In the same way, God cannot instinctively make a being with Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. An instinctive type love would be a robotic type love.
Obtaining Godly type Love is why we are here on earth for a short time and God is Loving and powerful enough to sovereignly allow us to accept this Love of our own free will.

 

[JulieB67]

Christ states fear the one that can destroy "both" body and soul in hell. That's why the lake of fire is called the "second" death. Afterwards I believe it will be destroyed after it's served it's purpose. And then it will become a "former" thing because all of the former things will be passed away and then truly Christ can state " I make all things new".

 

[Rescued One]

GOD GIVES US A NEW NATURE. OTHERWISE THERE WOULD BE NONE.

 

[Rescued One]

Loaded question. Depends on one's theological view. My view is , if a person finds themselves in eternal darkness they stay there. I don't think time passes in the next life.
Be blessed.

I'm very aware of people having various theological views. That's what I expect especialy on this thread. Thank you for responding. God rescued me from a cult.