KCDAD said:
[SIZE=-1]Der Alter, can God learn? Can God be surprised? Can God change his mind?[/SIZE]
And thus spaketh the Pharisees. Not because you want or expect an answer, but because you think, no matter what I answer I will be wrong.
Hey, dood, you tell me?
Let us consider this passage from Jeremiah. God said
I have caused to cleave That word is [size=+1]
הדבקתי[/size]/
hadabaqthi. It is in the perfect or completed sense.
Gods will, expressly stated, for the
whole house of Israel and Judah,
not just an elect, predestined, chosen, few, was for
all of Israel and
all of Judah to cling to God as a belt clings to a mans waist. It was done, finished, completed, in Gods sight, and, according to some arguments presented, nothing man can do will cause Gods will to not be done. But
they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey,
their will, vs. Gods will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
Someone may say,
The rebellious Israelites might have been destroyed temporally but still have been accepted into Gods kingdom, in the resurrection, etc.
But this passage very much speaks to the issue of Gods sovereign will, and mans free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God,
for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.
Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [[size=+1]הדבקתי[/size]/hadabaqthi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Note, verse 14, God said He will
NOT have pity, will
NOT spare, and will
NOT have mercy but destroy them. Is there anything in this triple condemnation that suggests, sometime in the future, God would relent and restore those whom He had destroyed
? This passage was written more than 2700 years ago, and it still reads as the prophet wrote it. Ten thousand times, ten thousand years from now, Gods eternal word will still say,
I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
H1692 [size=+1]דבק[/size] dabaq daw-bak'
A primitive root; properly to impinge, that is, cling or adhere; figuratively to catch by pursuit: - abide, fast, cleave (fast together), follow close (hard, after), be joined (together), keep (fast), overtake, pursue hard, stick, take.
H8816 Perfect
The Perfect expresses a completed action.
1) In reference to time, such an action may be:
1a) one just completed from the standpoint of the present
- "I have come" to tell you the news
1b) one completed in the more or less distant past in the beginning God "created"
- "I was (once) young" and "I have (now) grown old" but
- "I have not seen" a righteous man forsaken
1c) one already completed from the point of view of another past act
- God saw everything that "he had made"
1d) one completed from the point of view of another action yet future
- I will draw for thy camels also until "they have done" drinking
2) The perfect is often used where the present is employed in English.
2a) in the case of general truths or actions of frequent occurrence--truths or actions which have been often experienced or observed
- the grass "withereth"
- the sparrow "findeth" a house
2b) an action or attitude of the past may be continued into the present
"I stretch out" my hands to thee
"thou never forsakest" those who seek thee
2c) the perfect of intransitive verbs is used where English uses the present; The perfect in Hebrew in such a case emphasizes a condition which has come into "complete existence" and realization
- "I know" thou wilt be king
- "I hate" all workers of iniquity
2d) Sometimes in Hebrew, future events are conceived so vividly and so realistically that they are regarded as Having virtually taken place and are described by the perfect.
2d1) in promises, threats and language of contracts
- the field "give I" thee
- and if not, "I will take it"
2d2) prophetic language
- my people "is gone into captivity" (i.e. shall assuredly go).
