Hebrews 3 and 4 do not delete God's Sabbath commandment

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob,
The law of God Jeremiah is talking about is Jesus Christ.

The Law of God Jeremiah is talking about is the one known to Jeremiah and his readers which had to include the TEN spoken verbally - directly - by God at Sinai. This is a Bible detail that Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations freely admit to. So "the easy part" of the discussion.

Heb 8 points out that Jesus is the one speaking His Commandments at Sinai.

 

[pasifika]

The Law of God Jeremiah is talking about is the one known to Jeremiah and his readers which had to include the TEN spoken verbally - directly - by God at Sinai. This is a Bible detail that Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations freely admit to. So "the easy part" of the discussion.

Heb 8 points out that Jesus is the one speaking His Commandments at Sinai.

Hello Bob,
Luke 24: 44..Everything must be fulfilled that was written about me in the Law of Moses, Prophets and the Psalms...

The 10 commandments will only condemn you and put you death...Romans 7:10.." I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death...

Also, don't believe the Bible scholars But test them what sort of spirit they have...the Holy Spirit is the Only Teacher send from God...

 

[BobRyan]

The 10 commandments will only condemn you and put you death...Romans 7:10.." I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death...

For the lost that is true according to Rom 3:19-20

But for the saints "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact WE establish the LAW" Rom 3:31

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12

include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

 

[guevaraj]

The "rest" is always the same...(called Sabbath Rest) but the "day" in which God and man enters into that rest (Sabath Rest) is different..

Brother, I agree! The word "rest" refers to the same "rest" throughout the message: God's "rest" on the seventh day of creation. Now, what remains is to understand two announcements about that "rest". First, why didn't they go into that "rest" during the 40 years they kept the Sabbath with Manna before reaching the Promised Land? Second, why didn't Joshua give them that "rest" even though they entered God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land? What is different from the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years and the Sabbath in the Promised Land?

Sabbath Rest is Not a physical Rest like rest one day a week then go back to do the same work the next week and so forth...But "Sabbath Rest" is a spiritual rest..i.e. rest from spiritual slavery to sin, so unless you free from sin you still not rest doesn't matter what day of the week it is...

Here you disagree with your earlier statement, changing the meaning of the word "rest" from God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land to something other than God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[pasifika]

For the lost that is true according to Rom 3:19-20

But for the saints "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact WE establish the LAW" Rom 3:31

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12

include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Hello Bob,

Yes we establish the Law through Faith Not through the "works of the Law" (Sinai law)..

Yes, commandments of God is to believe in Christ and Love another!

You are born again Not with perishable but through the Word..(Spiritual man Not Natural man) or Not earthly man but heavenly man...
Not the old but the new...

 

[pasifika]

Brother, I agree! The word "rest" refers to the same "rest" throughout the message: God's "rest" on the seventh day of creation. Now, what remains is to understand two announcements about that "rest". First, why didn't they go into that "rest" during the 40 years they kept the Sabbath with Manna before reaching the Promised Land? Second, why didn't Joshua give them that "rest" even though they entered God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land? What is different from the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years and the Sabbath in the Promised Land?

Here you disagree with your earlier statement, changing the meaning of the word "rest" from God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land to something other than God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Some of the Israelites during the 40 yrs enter into God's Rest through "Believing in the Gospel" read Hebrews 4:2,3..and it's always believing in the Gospel in which we find rest (Sabbath Rest)...

I didn't change the meaning of the "rest"...can you elaborate more...

 

[guevaraj]

Some of the Israelites during the 40 yrs enter into God's Rest through "Believing in the Gospel" read Hebrews 4:2,3..and it's always believing in the Gospel in which we find rest (Sabbath Rest)... I didn't change the meaning of the "rest"...can you elaborate more...

Brother, none of the Israelites entered during the 40 years they kept a seventh day Sabbath with Manna. The reason is that a seventh day Sabbath is from morning to morning, as it was in Eden, and in the Promised Land, God said that the Sabbath falls from evening to evening, between two days of the week. They kept for 40 years a Sabbath that is right in Eden, but wrong near the Promised Land. The reason Joshua did not give them the "rest" is because the Sabbath tradition of Judaism is only correct in the Promised Land and nowhere else, something that God calls us to correct in Hebrews 3 and 4 under the new covenant so that we "can" enter God's Sabbath "rest" away from the Promised Land.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. (Hebrews 4:2-3 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[pasifika]

Brother, none of the Israelites entered during the 40 years they kept a seventh day Sabbath with Manna. The reason is that a seventh day Sabbath is from morning to morning, as it was in Eden, and in the Promised Land, God said that the Sabbath falls from evening to evening, between two days of the week. They kept for 40 years a Sabbath that is right in Eden, but wrong near the Promised Land. The reason Joshua did not give them the "rest" is because the Sabbath tradition of Judaism is only correct in the Promised Land and nowhere else, something that God calls us to correct in Hebrews 3 and 4 under the new covenant so that we "can" enter God's Sabbath "rest" away from the Promised Land.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. (Hebrews 4:2-3 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello G,

Compare these two verses to see that some enter into God's Rest during 40years in wilderness;

Hebrews 3: 18..And to whom did God swear that they would never enter His Rest if Not to those who "disobeyed"...

Then;

Hebrews 4:2...For We also have had the Good news proclaimed to Us, just as they did, but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the "Faith of those who obeyed"..(during the 40 yrs)..

 

[guevaraj]

Hebrews 4:2...For We also have had the Good news proclaimed to Us, just as they did, but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the "Faith of those who obeyed"..(during the 40 yrs)..

Brother, the second passage in your comparison is not during the 40 years, but after in the Promised Land. Those in the Promised Land did not benefit from what God showed them for 40 years with Manna because they did not "share the faith of those who obeyed". If they "shared the faith of those who obeyed", they would have learned during the 40 years with Manna that God was saying that a seventh day Sabbath is not entering His Sabbath "rest" near the Promised Land, as they wrongly assumed since Joshua in the Sabbath tradition of Judaism. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[pasifika]

Brother, the second passage in your comparison is not during the 40 years, but after in the Promised Land. Those in the Promised Land did not benefit from what God showed them for 40 years with Manna because they did not "share the faith of those who obeyed". If they "shared the faith of those who obeyed", they would have learned during the 40 years with Manna that God was saying that a seventh day Sabbath is not entering His Sabbath "rest" near the Promised Land, as they wrongly assumed since Joshua in the Sabbath tradition of Judaism. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello G,
Hebrews 4:1..beginning with the word "therefore"...(continues chain of thought from previous statement etc)..i.e. from Hebrews 3:18,19 continues to Hebrews 4:1,2,3...

 

[guevaraj]

Hello G,
Hebrews 4:1..beginning with the word "therefore"...(continues chain of thought from previous statement etc)..i.e. from Hebrews 3:18,19 continues to Hebrews 4:1,2,3...

Brother, correct! Hebrews 3 and 4 is one message. The "them" in "announced to us just as it was to them" are those under Joshua in the Promised Land. What "did them no good" announced with Manna for 40 years was that God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land is not the seventh day of the week as it was in Eden, but falls between two days of the week in the Promised Land.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[pasifika]

Brother, correct! Hebrews 3 and 4 is one message. The "them" in "announced to us just as it was to them" are those under Joshua in the Promised Land. What "did them no good" announced with Manna for 40 years was that God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land is not the seventh day of the week as it was in Eden, but falls between two days of the week in the Promised Land.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello G,
There are different age groups of Israel came out of Egypt i.e. Elders, military age group, children etc..

Those who did not believe the Good news proclaimed to "them" as in Hebrews 4:2 are those of the "military age group " see Joshua 5:6..The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness for 40 yrs until all the men of "military age" when they left Egypt had died, since they had Not obeyed the Lord..."

But there are also "those" who obeyed the Good news from those that came out of Egypt apart from the age group mentioned above..i.e. Elders or those who preach the Gospel to the people like Moses, Aaron etc..

Joshua lead the "children" of those who disobeyed God to the promise land...Joshua 5:7-9,
so a different generation born in the wilderness...

 

[guevaraj]

the Good news

Brother, the "good news" is that "God's promise of entering His rest" still stands. Announced was this "good news" to them as to us, but it did them no good because Judaism since Joshua assumed that the Sabbath is the seventh day in the Promised Land as it was in Eden when God taught them with Manna during 40 years that a seventh day Sabbath is not entering God's Sabbath rest near the Promised Land, where it falls 10 hours earlier between two days of the week and not on the seventh day of the week.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. (Hebrews 4:1-3 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Danthemailman]

Hello Bob,
Luke 24: 44..Everything must be fulfilled that was written about me in the Law of Moses, Prophets and the Psalms...

The 10 commandments will only condemn you and put you death...Romans 7:10.." I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death...

Also, don't believe the Bible scholars But test them what sort of spirit they have...the Holy Spirit is the Only Teacher send from God...

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Brother, the "good news" is that "God's promise of entering His rest" still stands. Announced was this "good news" to them as to us, but it did them no good because Judaism since Joshua assumed that the Sabbath is the seventh day in the Promised Land as it was in Eden when God taught them with Manna during 40 years that a seventh day Sabbath is not entering God's Sabbath rest near the Promised Land, where it falls 10 hours earlier between two days of the week and not on the seventh day of the week.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. (Hebrews 4:1-3 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

"but it did them no good because Judaism since Joshua assumed that the Sabbath is the seventh day in the Promised Land as it was in Eden when God taught them with Manna during 40 years that a seventh day Sabbath is not entering God's Sabbath rest near the Promised Land, where it falls 10 hours earlier between two days of the week and not on the seventh day of the week."









It is as told, Israel could not see what was to be abolished ( the law written on tables of stone) and that emphasizes how much they are and were, unable to see Christ ( in faith) as we are dealing with blinded minds, and a vail that is upon the heart...





2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.




Sabbath and circumcision, and all laws that are abolished serve Israel nothing, the problem for all is, no man can approach to see this light, but it is shining right in front of them, to follow after faith and righteousness ( Israel says no, but we will follow after law and sabbath)..




1 Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[Danthemailman]

Hello G,

Compare these two verses to see that some enter into God's Rest during 40years in wilderness;

Hebrews 3: 18..And to whom did God swear that they would never enter His Rest if Not to those who "disobeyed"...

Then;

Hebrews 4:2...For We also have had the Good news proclaimed to Us, just as they did, but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the "Faith of those who obeyed"..(during the 40 yrs)..

Hebrews 4:1 - For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Obedience is a manifestation of belief, just as disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. The act of disobedience which condemns is refusing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

 

[Danthemailman]

Hello Bob,

Yes we establish the Law through Faith Not through the "works of the Law" (Sinai law)..

Yes, commandments of God is to believe in Christ and Love another!

You are born again Not with perishable but through the Word..(Spiritual man Not Natural man) or Not earthly man but heavenly man...
Not the old but the new...

Amen! We establish or uphold the law by putting our faith in the One who fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf and who offers us His perfect righteousness as a gift. (Romans 4:5-6) Christ is the culmination or end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

Let's be very careful not to make the same mistake that Israel made in regards to seeking righteousness. Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hebrews 4:1 - For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Obedience is a manifestation of belief, just as disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. The act of disobedience which condemns is refusing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

This is what these verse means

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

What did this disobey?

13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths.

You do not enter into the gospel rest by breaking the Sabbath commandment as clearly demonstrated in these scriptures

You do not receive God’s blessings by disobeying as demonstrated here:

Isaiah 58
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.


Happy Sabbath all!

 

[Danthemailman]

This is what these verse means

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

What did this disobey?

13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths.

The house of Israel rebelled against God in the wilderness and their disobedience of not walking in God's statues, despising His judgments and greatly defiling His sabbaths were a manifestation of their unbelief.

In Hebrews 3:8-10, we read - Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

You do not enter into the gospel rest by breaking the Sabbath commandment as clearly demonstrated in these scriptures.

More SDA eisegesis. Our gospel rest is not found in keeping the weekly sabbath day under the Mosiac law, but is found in Jesus Christ. Although for centuries the house of Israel had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The house of Israel rebelled against God in the wilderness and their disobedience of not walking in God's statues, despising His judgments and greatly defiling His sabbaths were a manifestation of their unbelief.

In Hebrews 3:8-10, we read - Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

More SDA eisegesis. Our gospel rest is not found in keeping the weekly sabbath day under the Mosiac law, but is found in Jesus Christ. Although for centuries the house of Israel had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

The eisegesis is thinking you can have the blessing God gives by disobeying Him, especially breaking the Holy day of the Lord thy God that God tells us to Remember, which is the opposite of what is being taught here. I choose to believe and follow God.

God bless