Hebrews 3 and 4 do not delete God's Sabbath commandment

[guevaraj]

Jesus does not change, and let every man be fully persuaded on every day being the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow and for ever.

Brother, If as Jesus tells us, He does not change, than He will not change the Sabbath that Jesus kept even in His death. He may change our understanding of it, but it is the same Sabbath from the beginning that we have misunderstood. God does not tell us that all days are the same, because He made one of the seven days of creation "holy" and not the others. Not every day of the week is "holy", only one of the seven days of the week is "holy" from the beginning, when God made a home for us on Earth in six days and rested on the seventh. Jesus speaks against abandoning God's command for made-up substitutions that nullify God's command. You show no faith in Jesus by nullifying Jesus' command with your own invented replacement.

What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”

You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?

Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.

Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works. (James 2:14-26 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[prophecy_uk]

​

Brother, If as Jesus tells us, He does not change, than He will not change the Sabbath that Jesus kept even in His death. He may change our understanding of it, but it is the same Sabbath from the beginning that we have misunderstood. God does not tell us that all days are the same, because He made one of the seven days of creation "holy" and not the others. Not every day of the week is "holy", only one of the seven days of the week is "holy" from the beginning, when God made a home for us on Earth in six days and rested on the seventh. Jesus speaks against abandoning God's command for made-up substitutions that nullify God's command. You show no faith in Jesus by nullifying Jesus' command with your own invented replacement.

Why is your only quote James, and that is indeed to do deeds of faith, which God did when He created the world in 6 days by faith which works.

The sabbath was observed not from the beginning, but by Israel. It was explained in the beginning, which means, we must take all of this by faith.


Then we instead of rest, to enter into rest, we labour as Jesus did, night and day as the Apostles did also..


Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

 

[guevaraj]

Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Brother, translations do not always convey the original meaning. Here is a translation that best suits the general message where Joshua, in the translation you chose above, is not Jesus. Only those who "share the faith of those who obeyed" can enter the "rest" of God on the Sabbath, because the oath made it clear with the manna that the Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week from morning to morning: evening to evening is not a day of the week and the Sabbath in Israel falls between two days of the week. This incorrect human tradition that supposed a Sabbath in Israel is a day of the week is difficult to correct if it were not for the other human Sunday tradition to help fight it. We need to love the truth to escape the established human traditions that have been with us for so long. We must enter the "rest" in which they had not entered for 40 years by oath due to their disobedience. The only "rest" available to them as for us is the "rest" on the Sabbath.

And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness? And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest. (Hebrews 3:17-19 NLT)​

The "rest" they could have entered into as we "can" is the Sabbath "rest".

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

For 40 years with manna they did not keep an evening to evening Sabbath. Notice below when the Sabbath begins in the seventh day with manna: in the "morning" when it normally spoils and they pick up new manna every day except when the next day is a Sabbath and the manna is not spoiled in the "morning" but lasts for two days. Explained is this different beginning of the Sabbath with manna in Hebrews 3 and 4 under the new covenant that due to their disobedience before having manna they were not allowed to enter the "rest" of God's Sabbath during those 40 years near the Promised Land where the Sabbath is from evening to evening and not like they kept the Sabbath with manna from morning to morning. With manna they were keeping the wrong Sabbath near the Promised Land that was correct in Eden but not near the Promised Land.

So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. “Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a sabbath to the Lord. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” (Exodus 16:24-26 NIV)​

Hebrews 3 and 4 calls all of us to enter the Sabbath "rest", after Jesus, that the Jews were not allowed to enter by an oath by keeping the seventh day Sabbath with the manna from morning to morning that was the wrong Sabbath near the Promised Land. Israel is keeping the correct Sabbath because remembered it is in the Eden time zone and not because it is in Israel on the seventh day of the week. The first day in Genesis below is from morning to morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning. Evening falls in the middle of the first day dividing the halves that God called "day" and "night", in that order. Each day of the week ends in a "night" in which God has nothing to report from evening to morning because He only creates during the first half of light from morning to evening and stops creating every "night" from evening to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

A previous morning to morning day of the week is confirmed in the following passage.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[prophecy_uk]

And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness? And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest. (Hebrews 3:17-19 NLT)​

The "rest" they could have entered into as we "can" is the Sabbath "rest".

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

Unbelief stops them entering into rest. ( Gods eternal rest of Christ we see is the glory Christ enters into, this is His glorious REST and OURS



Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Hebrews 10: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.





Sabbath is not belief, as law is not faith at all, nor does a different translation say otherwise( labouring in faith is not sabbath labouring, it is labouring as the Apostle Paul exampled in faith..



Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Hebrews 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[guevaraj]

Unbelief stops them entering into rest. ( Gods eternal rest of Christ we see is the glory Christ enters into, this is His glorious REST and OURS... Sabbath is not belief, as law is not faith at all, nor does a different translation say otherwise( labouring in faith is not sabbath labouring, it is labouring as the Apostle Paul exampled in faith.

Brother, your speculation on the meaning of the word "rest" used in other passages ignores what God says in this passage because the Hebrews 3 and 4 passage identifies the "rest" as referring to when God rested from His labor after creating the world on the seventh day of the week of creation.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” (Hebrews 4:1-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[prophecy_uk]

The people had not received the Holy Ghost, Apostle Paul asked what baptism they had been baptized with ? They said to John ( the baptist) and Paul said they should believe on Jesus Christ ( they had not heard of any Holy Ghost)

Then they hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost came upon them.

Then do we not know that we which were baptized, were baptized into the death of Jesus Christ, buried in that baptism to His death with Him, and like Christ was raised up by glory of the Father we should also walk in newness of life.

We were required to be branches in Christ, this is us being planted together in the likeness of His death, to be also in the likeness of His resurrection, our old man is crucified with Him ( before His crucifixion we are the old man) and we in the body of sin that becomes crucified once crucified with Christ in baptism.....





Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.




Law keeping and believing, such as being circumcised then is not any thing, but a new creature is everything.

The Galatians received the Spirit by the hearing of faith, not by what the law had done, but by what Jesus had done, by His faith to die for us and to rise again, this is exampled in Abraham believing God of the promise of faith and this is righteousness..




Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.




Jesus taught how new wine must be put into new bottles, to preserve both. Jesus led the way in this, by the blood of the new covenant, which was shed for many, and by His body which was broken for us, to make the new body.
Then we are told, that Christ died for all as all were dead, then we know no man any more after the flesh, we know Christ now also without the flesh. Then if anyone is in Christ ( we being the branches in the vine) they are a new creature, all becomes new, all is of God, who reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, giving us this ministry of reconciliation..



Matthew 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;




Jesus then in His flesh abolishes the law of commandments, to make this new man.

The old man then is put off, and his deceitful lusts and deeds, to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, to put on the new man, and after God this is created in righteousness and TRUE HOLINESS, ( the Lord sanctified previously a day which had no truth, the sabbath, but now sanctifies all our days truly through Christ) then they put away lying ( they do this by being given the Spirit of Christ by believing in Christs rising from the dead to life) as now we being in the vine are members one of another ( the branches cannot be in the vine until all can be members one of another)

The new man put on is renewed in knowledge ( renewed in the spirit of your mind) after the image of Him that created him, and then Christ is all in all ( then the vine is in all the branches and all the branches are in Him)

Then as the elect of God they put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness and long suffering, forgiving one another and putting ion charity as this is the bond of perfectness ( put on Christ the new man)...





Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.




The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus makes us free from the law of sin and death, which is all that is before the resurrection of Christ.

Boasting then is by the law of faith ( by nothing else it is all nothing)

Bearing one another's burdens is the law of Christ, and to be found in Him ( in the vine and we the branches) it is not by the law, but it is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith, is to know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, to be made conformable unto His death...




Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 

[Aussie Pete]

============== part IV

The law "taken away" in Heb 10:4-12 is the Law of "animal sacrifice and offerings" where the text says "He takes away the first to establish the second".

In Heb 10 it is a Law taken away.

in Heb 4 we have the example of Law that remains used as an argument to continue in faith.

The Example in Heb 4 would FAIL if he had used a deleted/expired law as the illustration saying "there REMAINS therefore animal sacrifices and offerings for the people of God" - that would make no sense to the reader.

You do not know what the sabbath rest is. Have you ever tied up your shoelaces on the sabbath? Ohhhhhh no. Stone him. That's the law.

 

[BobRyan]

You do not know what the sabbath rest is. Have you ever tied up your shoelaces on the sabbath? Ohhhhhh no. Stone him. That's the law.

Not in the actual Bible.

Also - as even the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and also the "Baptist Confession of Faith" freely "notice" in section 19 of each of those confessions - the civil law applicable inside the OT form of government "Theocracy" ended when that government ended - so then all TEN remain but the civil laws do not remain -- even according to them. That is not just a Sabbath keeping Christian argument - but rather Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic.

 

[BobRyan]

The law is not established in what Israel did, did you notice what John 6 establishes ? It is faith, and it is what I teach, against law, and that is why the Jews saw, but believed not.
.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."
Rom 2:13 " for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified."

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Unchanged - verbatim - in the NT - Heb 8:6-12

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

where those commandments include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Because even in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
1 John 2:1 "these things I write that you sin not"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God - AND their faith in Jesus"

======================

I prefer the Bible.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Rom 3:31 "Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."
Rom 2:13 " for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified."

Teaching law is not keeping the righteousness of the law, to do that they believe in the righteousness of Christ rising and death that had to be for them, this is the law of faith, because teaching the law then breaking the law is blasphemy, as told in Romans 2 ( to keep the righteousness of the law is glory to God by belief in the righteous rising of the Lord)


Proof is also in the verses, how even uncircumcision counts as circumcision now ( by the circumcision of Christ through the Spirit given to us) the same as you keeping sabbath and breaking other laws ( to commit sins) counts as sabbath not kept, and me keeping the righteousness of Christ ( for example) and by not sinning against others, but to keep the righteousness of the law ( of Christ) counts for me sabbath kept..


Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

 

[prophecy_uk]

Rom 3:31 "Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."
Rom 2:13 " for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified."



Unchanged - verbatim - in the NT - Heb 8:6-12

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

where those commandments include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Because even in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
1 John 2:1 "these things I write that you sin not"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God - AND their faith in Jesus"

======================

I prefer the Bible.

Changed in the NT...



Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.




The commandments of Christ are keeping the law in ONE WORD..



Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.




Children are to be brought up in the admonition of the Lord ( given an example of the liberty in Christ not letters of law, but faith)

It is well with the children to know the parents are bringing them up now in the nurture of the Lord ( the previous law was without this and is dead without Spirit)

Now servants do the will of God from the heart, with good will to do service ( not as menpleasers) knowing if they do by faith they receive the same from the Lord ( if you do to be seen of men you have received your reward of this worlds laws and ways already)..

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

 

[pasifika]

Hebrews 4 makes it past tense not future.

Hello Bob, spoken of through to David in the past (of entering into His rest..Heb 4:6,7)..and it's still remains for His people to enter into that rest now..the day called "Today"...

 

[guevaraj]

Hello Bob, spoken of through to David in the past (of entering into His rest..Heb 4:6,7)..and it's still remains for His people to enter into that rest now..the day called "Today"...

Brother, "today" in the Hebrews 3 and 4 passage refers to when Paul wrote Hebrews during the new covenant. Although found in an earlier passage from David, God did not explain the misunderstanding of God's definition of a day due to the Sabbath in the Promised Land until the new covenant in the book of Hebrews, when God's people find themselves living outside of the Promised Land. While the faithful were in the Promised Land because of the temple, they did not have to understand the Sabbath as well as we need to enter the "rest" of God's Sabbath.

Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[pasifika]

Brother, "today" in the Hebrews 3 and 4 passage refers to when Paul wrote Hebrews during the new covenant. Although found in an earlier passage from David, God did not explain the misunderstanding of God's definition of a day due to the Sabbath in the Promised Land until the new covenant in the book of Hebrews, when God's people find themselves living outside of the Promised Land. While the faithful were in the Promised Land because of the temple, they did not have to understand the Sabbath as well as we need to enter the "rest" of God's Sabbath.

Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello G,
"today" in Hebrews 3&4 is the day we enter into to God's Rest just as God enter into His rest from His works on the 7th day in creation...

"Today" is Not specific to any day unlike the 7th day when God Rest from His work...
("Today" Sabbath Rest is determine when we Believe the Gospel or Believe in Jesus Christ...As Believe in Christ is the work that we have to do)..Heb 4:3..."We who believed enter that rest....

E.g, when Scriptures state that Abraham believed God...(that is the day Abraham enter into God's Rest or the day called "Today" for him)

7th day..God enters into His Rest in creation..Gen

"Today"...man enters into God's Rest (by believing in Gospel)...from Gen-Rev..

 

[guevaraj]

Sabbath Rest is determine when we Believe the Gospel or Believe in Jesus Christ...As Believe in Christ is the work that we have to do

Brother, happy Sabbath! You are speculating on the meaning of the word "rest" when its meaning is given in the message. The meaning of the word "rest" in the Hebrews 3 and 4 message is given as a reference to when God rested from His labor after creating the world on the seventh day of the week of creation.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” (Hebrews 4:1-5 NLT)​

Exposed are our distorted views of the word "rest" by the clear use of the word "rest" in this message. Jesus died so we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago", before sin entered the human family.

For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. (Ephesians 2:10 NLT)​

The purpose of creating us anew is given in the previous verse: so that we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago". Long ago, God planned for us the seventh day of creation, before sin entered the human family, to remember His "holy" day. We will remember "the Lord's day" in gratitude for His salvation as God tells us we will when He told us the end in the next passage.

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. (Isaiah 66:22-23 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Heb 4:9 "there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" (uses the word "remains" instead of "deleted")

Heb 3: (Quotes Ps 95 at the time of DAVID)
7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today if you hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,
As on the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers put Me to the test,
And saw My works for forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
11 As I swore in My anger,
‘They certainly shall not enter My rest.’”

12 Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still called “today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end,

Note that the risk of rebellion and falling away was not limited to the OT - the risk is the SAME in both OT and NT. This is not about a "Change in the NT".

========== part II

Heb 3: 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Disobedience and unbelief are "the risk"/"the danger" to be avoided.

=========== Part III

Heb 4
Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good news (GOSPEL) preached to us, just as they also did;

SAME Gospel according to Heb 4:2 - and SAME warning given to us in Heb 3 and 4 as we see in Ps 95 given to Israel by David. And the SAME example of "failure" given to BOTH the saints of David's day AND the NT saints - regarding the ones who rebelled against God in the wilderness.

Obviously Moses, Aaron, Miriam and others who died in the wilderness were prophets of God , faithful saints and Moses is affirmed in Heb 3 as well as Heb 11 as a saint. In fact in Matt 17 Moses appears in glory with Elijah and Christ on the mount of transfiguration BEFORE the cross even happens.

Heb 4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9 Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

The "rest" is past tense in Heb 4. "HAS also rested", "HAS entered His rest". Heb 3 ends on the note of "perseverance" to continue 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end

Hi Bob, the first verse is not about an earthly sabbath.

Your Buddy,
Daniel

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Bob, the first verse is not about an earthly sabbath.

Your Buddy,
Daniel

Heb 3: 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Heb 4 says this

Heb 4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

Paul argues that the only ones who did not enter were those in rebellion - who did not enter due to unbelief.

He does not claim he is one who has not entered it.
He does not claim no one not even the saints can enter for another 2000 years.
He does not claim that the saints of the OT did not enter.

This means the Sabbath is being used as a symbol of the saving relationship with Christ in Heb 4 and this only works as a symbol if it is not "deleted". So for example if he says "there remains therefore an animal sacrifice for the people of God" it would not work - because in fact that does NOT remain and as a symbol it would not work. Only something that actually does remain could be used as a symbol for something "that remains"

 

[pasifika]

Brother, happy Sabbath! You are speculating on the meaning of the word "rest" when its meaning is given in the message. The meaning of the word "rest" in the Hebrews 3 and 4 message is given as a reference to when God rested from His labor after creating the world on the seventh day of the week of creation.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” (Hebrews 4:1-5 NLT)​

Exposed are our distorted views of the word "rest" by the clear use of the word "rest" in this message. Jesus died so we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago", before sin entered the human family.

For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. (Ephesians 2:10 NLT)​

The purpose of creating us anew is given in the previous verse: so that we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago". Long ago, God planned for us the seventh day of creation, before sin entered the human family, to remember His "holy" day. We will remember "the Lord's day" in gratitude for His salvation as God tells us we will when He told us the end in the next passage.

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. (Isaiah 66:22-23 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello

The "rest" is always the same...(called Sabbath Rest) but the "day" in which God and man enters into that rest (Sabath Rest) is different..

God rest on 7th day after the work in creation...(God is still at work now but different work from the work he's already done in Genesis)...

Man rest on the day called "Today" once "believe in the Gospel" as man's work is to "believe"...

Sabbath Rest is Not a physical Rest like rest one day a week then go back to do the same work the next week and so forth...
But "Sabbath Rest" is a spiritual rest..i.e. rest from spiritual slavery to sin, so unless you free from sin you still not rest doesn't matter what day of the week it is...

 

[BobRyan]

But "Sabbath Rest" is a spiritual rest..i.e. rest from spiritual slavery to sin, so unless you free from sin you still not rest doesn't matter what day of the week it is...

one could dismiss every command in scripture for a lost person saying that as long as one is lost - keeping this or that commandment - no matter how much it is affirmed by Christ - does not matter because the person is still lost.

The NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 writes the "Law of God" on heart and mind for the saints - and is verbatim unchanged in Heb 8 in the NT. It writes the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers which had to include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 and that means it includes the Sabbath commandment just as God gave it in scripture.

 

[pasifika]

one could dismiss every command in scripture for a lost person saying that as long as one is lost - keeping this or that commandment - no matter how much it is affirmed by Christ - does not matter because the person is still lost.

The NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 writes the "Law of God" on heart and mind for the saints - and is verbatim unchanged in Heb 8 in the NT. It writes the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers which had to include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 and that means it includes the Sabbath commandment just as God gave it in scripture.

Hello Bob,
The law of God Jeremiah is talking about is Jesus Christ...(You can say His Spirit in our minds and our hearts)

Also, where we find rest for our soul...

Spiritual speaking...As in 2Corin 3:3...written Not with ink but Spirit of the Living God, Not tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts"....