Heaven—What is the barebones,minimum requirement to get there?

[hedrick]

are you saying that there are no "sinners", and that no one needs to "repent" to get to heaven? As for Jesus' "war against sin", which you say is not in Scripture. What do you think Jesus means by His words:

"And if thy hand offend thee...

If these words are no "war against sin", as you say, then I don't know what they are!

The term isn't sin, but stumbling-block. It's anything that holds us back from participating in the kingdom. Maybe it's a sin and maybe it isn't, but this isn't the typical Pharisees' concept of moral purity. TDNT defines it "The σκάνδαλον is an obstacle in coming to faith and a cause of going astray in it." It's not sin itself, but the kinds of obstacles that lead to both loss of faith and sin.

Jesus certainly says many times that we should give up anything to find the kingdom. This is quite consistent with that. But this isn't what people typically mean when they talk about fighting sin.

If you look at "repent" in the Gospels, you'll find that it refers to a change in direction of our lives. Jesus doesn't talk about repenting from individual sins, but changing from being a "sinner" -- which is someone opposed to the Kingdom -- to a follower.

You would have been better to quote Mat 5:29, which actually does talk about sin (virtually the only place, except for lots of talk about forgiveness of sins). Indeed the whole section of Mat 5 is a commentary on about half of the 10 Commandments. But the hyperbole of 5:29 aside, the section as a whole really replaces the law as rules with intent.

Jesus is deadly serious about how we behave. But what he cares about is bearing fruit, nor moralism.

I'm not trying to say sin doesn't matter. But there are too many people posting in Christian Advice and elsewhere who are spending their lives trying to stop masturbating, and going into a downward spiral, when they ought to be focusing on Jesus and bringing his love to others. Jesus cared about things that truly hurt others, but not about the quest for an impossible personal purity.

 

[PeaceB]

So the only “ requirement “ is belief ,Correct ?

Yes, also long as its understood as the beginning of a journey of God's work in you.

Hmm. I tend to think that belief is not a strict requirement, at least not for everyone. If it were, then you would have to exclude the possibility of salvation for infants who die, for the mentally incapacitated, and for the millions of people throughout history who never even once heard the gospel preached to them.

We are all saved though the redemptive work of Jesus, but I think that the merits of his redemptive work are appropriated differently for each person, depending on his or her circumstances. God seems to make a distinction between a person who has the ability to be baptized and a person who may not have had an opportunity, like the thief on the cross.

For me, since I have a firm belief that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and desires all people to be part of her, rejecting the Catholic Church would be akin to rejecting Jesus's authority. I simply cannot leave the Catholic Church because I believe that by doing so I would reject Jesus. But for people who have not come to this belief, rejecting the Catholic Church would not mean that you cannot be saved. It would not amount to a rejection of Jesus for you.

Perhaps the same sort of thing can be true for people in many other situations, even atheists. Of course, there are certain normative ways of getting saved (such as believing, or believing and getting baptized, depending on one's denomination), but God is not bound by any set of norms or rules, and his love for mankind is perfect. So I think we can even have some measure of hope for folks like atheists. I do not think that we can altogether exclude the possibility that God, in his grace and infinite love for mankind, may make exceptions for some of these folks and apply the redemptive work of Jesus to them as well, in some manner which we do not know.

I would say that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and God's grace are the only strict requirements, and luckily for all of us one is accomplished and the other is abundant.

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm not trying to say sin doesn't matter. But there are too many people posting in Christian Advice and elsewhere who are spending their lives trying to stop masturbating, and going into a downward spiral, when they ought to be focusing on Jesus and bringing his love to others. Jesus cared about things that truly hurt others, but not about the quest for an impossible personal purity.

This is the exact reason we Lutherans teach and preach what we do, the way we do.

Many people misunderstand Jesus Sermon on the Mount. In many cases he wasn't holding up an impossible standard that people had to emulate to be saved, he was trying to dethrone the religious hypocrisy of the day. This is what we Lutherans understand as the Second Use of the Law. God needs to take us down a peg before he can build us back into the image of Jesus, through the Gospel. And it's a message we need to hear over and over. Because as long as we live in this world, we are going to do things contrary to God's will for us, to be tempted to stray away from the way of Jesus.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Hmm. I tend to think that belief is not a strict requirement, at least not for everyone. If it were, then you would have to exclude the possibility of salvation for infants who die, for the mentally incapacitated, and for the millions of people throughout history who never even once heard the gospel preached to them.

We are all saved though the redemptive work of Jesus, but I think that the merits of his redemptive work are appropriated differently for each person, depending on his or her circumstances. God seems to make a distinction between a person who has the ability to be baptized and a person who may not have had an opportunity, like the thief on the cross.

For me, since I have a firm belief that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and desires all people to be part of her, rejecting the Catholic Church would be akin to rejecting Jesus's authority. I simply cannot leave the Catholic Church because I believe that by doing so I would reject Jesus. But for people who have not come to this belief, rejecting the Catholic Church would not mean that you cannot be saved. It would not amount to a rejection of Jesus for you.

Perhaps the same sort of thing can be true for people in many other situations, even atheists. Of course, there are certain normative ways of getting saved (such as believing, or believing and getting baptized, depending on one's denomination), but God is not bound by any set of norms or rules, and his love for mankind is perfect. So I think we can even have some measure of hope for folks like atheists. I do not think that we can altogether exclude the possibility that God, in his grace and infinite love for mankind, may make exceptions for some of these folks and apply the redemptive work of Jesus to them as well, in some manner which we do not know.

I would say that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and God's grace are the only strict requirements, and luckily for all of us one is accomplished and the other is abundant.

Very thoughtful post,and I agree—- no cross,no grace— complete hopelessness for all of us. God bless

 

[Tolworth John]

I would tell him to check With Tolworth John and do everything possible to please the expectations of him and the rest of the religious ones...Put on your best show to please men like John with your outward performance , pay no heed to the things that only God can do—- like change your heart....that takes to long and people might judge you in the meanwhile...super spiritual enough for you?

 

[Emmy]

Dear Blood Bought 1953. We must love God our Heavenly Father with heart,soul, and mind, and we must love our neighbour as we love ourselves. God is Love, and Jesus died for us, that we can live for Him. In Matthew 22: Jesus tells us: The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. the second is like it. love thy neighbour as thyself. Then we are told: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Simple and straightforward. God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. Love is very catching, and before long we shall be the men and women which God wants.
The Bible tells us: give up all our selfish wishes and wants, start loving and caring for all we know and all we meet. Always remember that GOD is LOVE. Love is very catching, and before long we shall be as God wants us to be. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told " Ask and you shall receive. We ask God for Love and compassion, for joy and Peace, and then we hare it all all around us. Love will soon grow, and change us into the men and women which our Heavenly Father wants. LOVE above all else, and follow Jesus back to our Heavenly Father. Let us follow God`s Commands and Wishes, and we shall be the men and women which our God wants. I say this with love, Blood Bought. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Urban_Legend]

If you can say "Lord Lord save me" then that I would say is the minimum requirement for salvation...

 

[Urban_Legend]

If you can say "Lord Lord save me" then that I would say is the minimum requirement for salvation...

 

[LynnC]

Seeing oneself as a lost sinner who needs a Saviour,would be my guess....Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner is adequate to save ,I think.....anybody out there see things differently than I do?

Greetings Blood Bought,

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- the Word of Yshwe Messiah (known as Jesus the Christ), book of Matthew, chapter 7

Peace and blessings to you,
Lynn

 

[Urban_Legend]

Greetings Blood Bought,

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- the Word of Yshwe Messiah (known as Jesus the Christ), book of Matthew, chapter 7

Peace and blessings to you,
Lynn

It's not doing the will of the father but allowing the will of the father to be done in you....

Isaiah 41:13 For I am the LORD your God who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you.

John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Romans 3:9-23 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one. “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.” Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.“Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know.“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Righteousness Through Faith But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[Urban_Legend]

All you need to do is believe that Jesus is the son of God and he saves through the power of his sacrifice

 

[Urban_Legend]

...and believe me if you were totally hopeless in your life and you come before the Lord and ask him to save you...he will never turn away from you...

Luke 7:37-50 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.”
Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”
“Tell me, teacher,” he said.
“Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, ☳ and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”
“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.
Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”
Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

...and believe me if you were totally hopeless in your life and you come before the Lord and ask him to save you...he will never turn away from you...

EVERYONE is totally helpless in their life - there is no way ANYONE can save themselves.
And no, they don't get saved (most on earth never do). They actually choose to reject Jesus instead, and to serve demons. (see Revelation)

 

[Episaw]

Seeing oneself as a lost sinner who needs a Saviour,would be my guess....Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner is adequate to save ,I think.....anybody out there see things differently than I do?

The starting point for me and I emphasise it is a starting point, is the sermon on the day of Pentecost. Repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour doesn't do it for me as accepting Jesus into your heart doesn't either.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The starting point for me and I emphasise it is a starting point, is the sermon on the day of Pentecost. Repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour doesn't do it for me as accepting Jesus into your heart doesn't either.

Would this work? Paul said it is the Gospel thAt saves if it is believed.... 1cor15

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Greetings Blood Bought,

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- the Word of Yshwe Messiah (known as Jesus the Christ), book of Matthew, chapter 7

Peace and blessings to you,
Lynn

They were offering their works.....just like Cain....results will be the same

 

[FireDragon76]

Hmm. I tend to think that belief is not a strict requirement, at least not for everyone. If it were, then you would have to exclude the possibility of salvation for infants who die, for the mentally incapacitated, and for the millions of people throughout history who never even once heard the gospel preached to them.

Lutherans even believe babies can have faith, that is why we baptize them. We do not understand faith as intellectual assent per se.

For all we know, many of those kinds of people you mention above have a great, but hidden faith. There must be a reason, after all, Jesus blessed little children, and told us they were images of the Kingdom.

We are all saved though the redemptive work of Jesus, but I think that the merits of his redemptive work are appropriated differently for each person, depending on his or her circumstances. God seems to make a distinction between a person who has the ability to be baptized and a person who may not have had an opportunity, like the thief on the cross.

We also believe Jesus is the savior of all people. How that exactly is applied to the whole world is a bit of a mystery and ultimately it is in God's hands.

 

[Urban_Legend]

This is a fascinating topic, with many points of views and interpretations...No one point of view is better than the other. God is so infinite that it would take all humans point of view to know what God really meant, individually we are unique from one another that God's nature can only be better manifested through that uniqueness. I really see it as we were intended to be weak and hopeless, take a look a John in the book of Matthew he is considered to be the "greatest" to ever be have born of a woman but look at how he lived, at the clothes he wore and what he went through in his life (Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is a fascinating topic, with many points of views and interpretations...No one point of view is better than the other. God is so infinite that it would take all humans point of view to know what God really meant, ...

Humans are unable to know what God means,
unless and until He reveals this to each as He Pleases, as written several times in Scripture.

All to whom He Grants Understanding, understand His Way simply, like little children usually,
and all the same way, IN UNION with JESUS as HIS WORD SAYS.

All the different ways of humans/ mankind/ society (pernicious), are deceptive and sinful as His Word Says...

 

[Urban_Legend]

But I do believe that God reveals bits and bits of himself to each of his children as they grow in their relationship with him so when Christians come together and fellowship in his name a presence then they learn and benefit from one another...( 1 Corinthians 12:8 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.)