Haulocaust Question

[FireDragon76]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

I think what is more pertinent in how Jews understand the Holocaust. Secular Jews consider it a tragedy, religious Jews consider it a martyrdom. I think both perspectives should inform how we as Christians view it, as well.

 

[Dave-W]

In the New Covenant, Jesus is Israel along with those who believe in him.

Nope. Romans 11 shows that very point.

 

[Dave-W]

I think what is more pertinent in how Jews understand the Holocaust. Secular Jews consider it a tragedy, religious Jews consider it a martyrdom. I think both perspectives should inform how we as Christians view it, as well.

3 weeks ago I was in Yad Vashem, the Holocaust museum in Israel. I broke down crying and almost collapsed on the floor. Those stacks of dead bodies contained MY RELATIVES.

That is how christians should view the holocaust.

 

[Dave L]

Nope. Romans 11 shows that very point.

God removed the unbelieving Jews from Israel in Romans 11. And will graft them in again through faith in Christ.

 

[FireDragon76]

My perspective isn't even derived from any particular pro-Israeli theology. I just think we need to be open to considering other peoples narratives of the world, especially in a tragic historical event where Christians participated.

In addition, in Lutheran theology, we do not necessarily view suffering as a sign of emnity with God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

I generally don’t make too
much out of WWII casualties as while the Jews are the single largest group that suffered, more than their number suffered when combined. And there have been worse genocide attempts in history.

I also have trouble with the hexagon flag. One of most occult symbols in the world. (David had nothing to do with that symbol.) I also found Israel to be one of the two most idolatrous places I ever seen (Rome being equal.). The worship of stones and material things!!

Israel also has a very bad reputation when it comes to human rights. They are no example of a nation that God has much influence over. The kingdom of God had been taken away from them.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

Just a point here. If you are going to engage in polemics, spell correctly. The word is spelled HOLOCAUST, and not haulocaust.

I don't believe that the holocaust was God's punishment upon the Jews. It came about by antisemitism--which began back in Old Testament times.

 

[dqhall]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

Neither the Jewish holocaust or Romans feeding Christians to the lions in the Colosseum was of God. These things were persecutions. The righteous and unrighteous perished alike.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

In every Old Testament example, there were always prophets leading up to that event to warn of the impending disaster. I'm not aware of any in this case. The absence of contemporary prophets indicates not only that it wasn't to be seen as punishment or discipline, or whatever, but also that the very foundation of the Jewish relationship to God was not the same as in Old Testament times. This sort of thing would not have happened then, except with a warning and a purpose. It would seem that God has left them much to the same meaningless calamity as their surrounding pagan nations in times of old. They are lost.

 

[friend of]

No. I would not consider the Holocaust to be a godly punishment.

 

[Dave L]

3 weeks ago I was in Yad Vashem, the Holocaust museum in Israel. I broke down crying and almost collapsed on the floor. Those stacks of dead bodies contained MY RELATIVES.

That is how christians should view the holocaust.

Have you ever read the Talmud?

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

Those who claim to be Jews in Israel are not Jews but are of the synagogue of Satan. So any punishment they suffer is the same any person may suffer for denying the Lord after hearing the truth.

 

[The Times]

In a race a horse is whipped until it comes first across the finishing line. It was a wager that started in the Garden and ended at the Cross.

God punishes his new nation Christianity, through chatisement and much tribulation.

I don't believe God would be interested in punishing a nation outside of Christianity, especially post 70AD, after the original horse was put down.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Have you ever read the Talmud?

Waiting with baited breath for you to drop the shoe.

 

[Saintly Sinner]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

This is probably an unpopular opinion considering the Dispensation influence, but the truth is that the NT really hits against Jews- for everything that venerates them, the Apostles are sure to condemn the Pharisees and by extension their way of thinking.
To top it off, Jesus outright compels the Apostles to see the Scriptures the way we interpret it- almost as if to kill the very foundation in which the Jews interpreted it.

 

[Marvin Knox]

The devil has tried to kill off the Jews at several times in history. His purpose is to make GOD out to be a liar. God still has certain unfulfilled promises to the natural offspring of Jacob. If the devil can eliminate them, then GOD lied in making those promises.

I absolutely agree.

 

[SolomonVII]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

The tendency of Jews until the holocaust was to see their travails as corrective punishment for wayward ways.
This changed significantly after WWII. The horror and annihilation were of such a vile extent that not even Jews with the most overactive of consciences could believe that they did something so bad that it merited that level of punishment from God.
Many Jews, like Dennis Prager have since come to the insight that it is not Jews that the world hates per se, but ever since the times of the Pharaoh what people hate about Jews is God, and what people blame Jews most of all for is introducing God to the world.
When God is supreme and sovereign, people have something to answer to greater than our own appetites and desires. Once people understand that God is real, like pharaoh did, they resent God like no one else. Since Spirit does not have a nose to punch, they instead kick God's chosen people.
Christianity is the most persecuted religious people in the world today. The principle at work with punching Christians is the same as it has been with the Jews for all these thousands of years.

 

[Christie insb]

IMO it's good to go to the Jews about these types of questions. Have you read any articles about it by Jews? Here's one: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/404608/jewish/Was-the-Holocaust-a-Punishment.htm

This is a really good article but it keeps popping in and out of existence. If it comes back I would like to post a paragraph.

 

[Christie insb]

IMO it's good to go to the Jews about these types of questions. Have you read any articles about it by Jews? Here's one: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/404608/jewish/Was-the-Holocaust-a-Punishment.htm

Here is a quote from the article: .

"But many centuries before political correctness, the sages of Israel insisted that something much deeper than punishment is going on here. Time and again, they reiterate that not everything can be explained under the narrow lens of reward and retribution."

So the article from Chabad.org goes on to describe how one group of Jews have come to understand this. I had trouble with Dr. Jean's link. Let's see if this one works.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/404608/jewish/Was-the-Holocaust-a-Punishment.htm

 

[AlexDTX]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

There is evidence for those willing to look, to ask, What Holocaust?