Haulocaust Question

[Dorothy Mae]

But not in that verse or in that context

He knows his subject in every verse and every context.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Bible verse reference for this assertion?

Try the garden of Eden. “Did you eat if the tree that I commanded you not to eat if?” Do you need more? The Bible is full of it.

Micromanaging in the sinful sense that man micromanages, yes that is correct.

All micromanaging is sinful.

However, God is involved in the minutiae of life.

Scripture please.

If there is a single stray electron that is not under God's control, than He is not God. Not one molecule or one galaxy does anything apart from the sovereign decree of God.

That is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jakob. Your definition is not the one He uses to define Himself but says people do not do his will which is why Jesus told us to
pray it would be done.

 

[JoeP222w]

Try the garden of Eden. “Did you eat if the tree that I commanded you not to eat if?” Do you need more? The Bible is full of it.

It was not against the decretive will of God. It was against the permissive will of God.

https://www.monergism.com/discerning-god’s-will-three-wills-god

All micromanaging is sinful.

By what standard do you claim this?

Scripture please.

Colossians 1:16-17 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. (17) And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

That is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jakob. Your definition is not the one He uses to define Himself but says people do not do his will which is why Jesus told us to
pray it would be done.

Refer to the first response in this segment regarding God's permissive will and God's decretive will.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It was not against the decretive will of God. It was against the permissive will of God.

https://www.monergism.com/discerning-god’s-will-three-wills-god

More man making up terms because they do not know God Himself and cannot ask the Maker how He works. God said it was against what He had commanded. He did not say, "oh but that is against me decretie will but not against my permissive will so that makes it OK or less bad or something deserving less than what I am about to dish out."

By what standard do you claim this?

It is morally wrong to enslave a man.

Colossians 1:16-17 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. (17) And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

He is not pantheistic. There are things and people he will spit out (Vomit is the word he uses) so they are cleary not in him and before him. The things he created went wrong and chose wrong. That He did not create but punishes them for doing so.

Refer to the first response in this segment regarding God's permissive will and God's decretive will.

God never said anything close to this. But you can prefer the explanations of men who do not know Him. They allow people to disobey thinking they are only violating a less severe will of God. A license to rebel if ever I heard one.

The will of God is not done on the earth. Just read the newspaper and read how God wants people to behave. You will quickly find a difference.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No, you only think you do.

I know I do. Unless it is not you that is writing what you did...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

He knows his subject in every verse and every context.

But you don't

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I know I do. Unless it is not you that is writing what you did...

Forget it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But you don't

We were talking about what Jesus knew.

 

[Resha Caner]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments?

It's an interesting question to ask. I assume God is still active in history - that the Resurrection didn't spark some new age where God just sits on his hands.

However, one needs to ask why Israel was chosen to understand why God interacted with them as he did. There is nothing innately special about the Jews. They were chosen as the people from whom the Christ would come. Nothing more (though that is an honor beyond all others). Now that the Christ has come, the Church carries forward the Gospel message.

So, the relationship has changed. Maybe God maintains some special sentiment toward the Jews since they are the bloodline of the Christ ... I have to admit I do. Regardless, I don't see them holding a special spiritual position. As such, I don't think the Holocaust was a "Biblical" corrective message specifically intended for the Jews. If it was God interacting in history, I've nothing to tell me what the message was supposed to be other than another reminder of the unspeakable horrors we continue to unleash on each other.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

We were talking about what Jesus knew.

I was talking about what you do not know

 

[eleos1954]

Question: Throughout history God has favored the Jews (in the OT), but punished them when they turned away from him. Then, he would give them another chance. Was the haulocaust in WW2 another one of the punishments? It lead to the revival of Israel. However, I need more information because I’m trying to make sense of this. Unless I know what I’m talking about, I definitely don’t want to start talking about this with people I know (especially non-believers) due to the backlash that could ensue, getting people angry and pulling farther away from God.

hmmmmm .... well was is .... is it punishment or consequences for not obeying God? I think consequences for not obeying God the most part myself. The holocaust was the result of evil wicked devil filled Hitler. I think in regard to the Jews they have and do experience both ... just like we all do.

Ok ... so are consequences for not obeying God punishment? I don't look at them the same way.

So ... the sense of it? If we disobey God we will have a negative outcome(s) ... that makes sense.

Satan creates havoc in our world .... we know that ... that makes sense.

God intervening sometimes and sometimes not?

Isaiah 55

9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.

We trust ..... that makes sense. ;o)

It hurts my heart that everything gets blamed on God and we term it as punishment when the reality is for the most part ... we don't listen to Him. From my own experience and though the history .... we continuously rebel and disobey ... and then blame God because we do? Now that does not make any sense at all! ;o)

 

[Resha Caner]

The holocaust was the result of evil wicked devil filled Hitler.

No doubt Hitler was evil, but he's also become a scapegoat. There was more than one evil person in the world at that time.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I was talking about what you do not know

You have no idea what I know and therefore cannot discuss this. Your pattern is to resort to telling those who disagree with you that they know nothing. They used this on Jesus as well so you’re not the first.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

hmmmmm .... well was is .... is it punishment or consequences for not obeying God? I think consequences for not obeying God the most part myself. The holocaust was the result of evil wicked devil filled Hitler. I think in regard to the Jews they have and do experience both ... just like we all do.

Ok ... so are consequences for not obeying God punishment? I don't look at them the same way.

So ... the sense of it? If we disobey God we will have a negative outcome(s) ... that makes sense.

Satan creates havoc in our world .... we know that ... that makes sense.

God intervening sometimes and sometimes not?

Isaiah 55

9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.

We trust ..... that makes sense. ;o)

It hurts my heart that everything gets blamed on God and we term it as punishment when the reality is for the most part ... we don't listen to Him. From my own experience and though the history .... we continuously rebel and disobey ... and then blame God because we do? Now that does not make any sense at all! ;o)

Since the outcome of WWII was NOT a returning of the Jews to the God of their ancestors, it’s a pretty safe bet He had nothing to do with it.

One really ought to ask if the rest of the people, not Jews, who together outnumber the Jews killed, were being punished for something and if so, what?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You have no idea what I know and therefore cannot discuss this. Your pattern is to resort to telling those who disagree with you that they know nothing. They used this on Jesus as well so you’re not the first.

I am going by what you post. And you are not Yeshua...

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am going by what you post. And you are not Yeshua...

There you go again, adding to my posts, changing what I write. I never said I was Jesus.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There you go again, adding to my posts, changing what I write. I never said I was Jesus.

No, I am not adding anything, just replying to your posts. And yes, you were comparing yourself to Jesus, you said "they did the same to Jesus". I said you are not Him, implying it is NOT the same because you are wrong and He was not wrong..

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, I am not adding anything, just replying to your posts. And yes, you were comparing yourself to Jesus, you said "they did the same to Jesus". I said you are not Him, implying it is NOT the same because you are wrong and He was not wrong..

No I was not. I wrote it and I was not. That Jesus had experiences that the believers also have and had does not mean they are comparing themselves to him. Peter was crucified too and in no way did Peter think he was like Jesus. I can give example after example of believers who shared the sufferings Jesus shared but in no way thought they were then like Jesus. You need to stop adding to words that are written thinking the other is implying something they are not.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No I was not. I wrote it and I was not. That Jesus had experiences that the believers also have and had does not mean they are comparing themselves to him. Peter was crucified too and in no way did Peter think he was like Jesus. I can give example after example of believers who shared the sufferings Jesus shared but in no way thought they were then like Jesus. You need to stop adding to words that are written thinking the other is implying something they are not.

Yet Jesus was not wrong, you were, so what happened to Him ("sufferings") is NOT the same as what you assume is happening to you.

 

[The Gryphon]

As a Christian Zionist I agree the Holocaust was NOT a punishment! It was the result of men following the direction of Satan trying to destroy G_ds plan for the reestablishment of Israel in His Prophetic Plan and the ultimate salvation of all Israel as stated in the New Testament. So you will understand it better look up the salvation of all Israel for yourself and do an in depth study. If you are interested a book that deals with this subject and much more is "When A Jew Rules the World: What the Bible Really Says About Israel in the Plan Of God by New York best selling author Joel Richardson. It tells how G_d's word as well as His covenants are eternal and everlasting! I hope this helps you.