Green new deal NOT about climate? Chakrabarti indicates about economy

[FireDragon76]

If the idea is to stimulate the economy, you want to invest in something that’s economically feasible.

The point is to restructure the economy so we even have a future worth living in, given the real and dire threat of global warming.

 

[Goonie]

In the next 6 months where I live it WILL rain. I know with 100% certainty that in the next 6 months it WILL rain here. I probably won't rain tomorrow, but it might.

Are you familiar with Flood Maps? There are floods that are called "100 year Floods" because they are very large but low probability. About 1 per 100years. If we have a 100 year flood next week on the river that I live next to it does NOT mean that it will be 100 years before such a flood happens again. It will be on average.

This is the nature of probability and prediction. In the case of anthropogenic global climate change we KNOW exactly where it will lead. It's just a matter of timing.



Most of us who understand the science a bit better know that the earth will be just fine in the long run, minus a big swath of the biosphere. But indeed the REAL danger to us as humans is that we will destroy our way of life. That is a guarantee. Our economy is far more tenuous than life itself. We can easily destroy our civilization without killing off all living things. And that is 100% guaranteed if we ignore the physics and chemistry you claim no one is debating against.



Such as? You DO realize that many of the concepts that have been floated for climate change fixes were already done to take care of a lot of things previously right? Acid rain was greatly dealt with using a cap and trade kind of approach. But back in the early 80's the exact same complaints were there that these fixes would destroy the economy. They didn't. And we are better for it now. Same thing with CFC's.

So what we are seeing now with climate change skepticism is the EXACT SAME GAME that was played out many times before with regards to acid rain, CFC's, even cigarette-cancer linkage! And in all those case the "skeptics" were wrong.

Now the stakes are a lot higher. You wanna bet against the house?

Sadly CFCs are being manufactured again in China.

 

[Sparagmos]

Read up the President's infrastructure plan.

I’m aware of it, but it’s been nothing but a plan for two years. What are the Republicans waiting for? Infrastructure is one of the only bipartisan issues we have.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Washington works for we the people.

That has got to be one of the funniest things I have read in a long while........

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why is it that every time you enter a conversation, you pretend to know the motives of the other side?

Probably the same reason that when a liberal enters a conversation they always know whats best for everyone and are willing to use the government to force them to do it......just say'n.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

The scientists (the ones allowed to speak) and academicians predicted that all of that would already have happened thanks to the same factors. And then they predicted it again and it didn't happen. And then they predicted it with even more gravity in their voices, and it didn't happen. The ”boy who cried wolf” was at least right about there BEING a wolf.

I remember when they were all worried because a new ice age was going to come upon us.....still waiting for that one.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Or do you take the occasional wrong stock forecast for a company as an indicator that money isn't real?

No, but I would stop listening to the person recommending stocks that simply just tank.....

 

[Gigimo]

These guys still have not figured one basic thing out: Just because they want something doesn't mean everyone is going to line up in support. Try to sell putting a wind or solar 'farm' next to some nice subdivision or any place where it is in sight of people and see what kind of response you will get from them: NIMBY

Here maybe they can use one of these which seems to be the inspiration behind design of the jet engine.

 

[Sparagmos]

That has got to be one of the funniest things I have read in a long while........

You get what you vote, petition, and lobby for. When half the people don’t vote, a tiny percentage ever lobby or petition their representatives, and about a quarter of the people vote to let big business buy politicians, this is what we get. We have the power, we’re just idiots and don’t use it.

 

[Gigimo]

I remember when they were all worried because a new ice age was going to come upon us.....still waiting for that one.

Now you should know by now that is an ultra far right wing lie!

(Even though I got a briefing on that subject while I was a working for the US Government)

 

[Sparagmos]

I remember when they were all worried because a new ice age was going to come upon us.....still waiting for that one.

I’m betting you don’t actually remember that...

 

[Gigimo]

Try to sell putting a wind or solar 'farm' next to some nice subdivision or any place where it is in sight of people and see what kind of response you will get from them.

They built a small one about 10 years ago next to a small town that sits close to I70 and the Indiana border, needless to say it's nothing more than an empty cornfield now.

 

[Albion]

You get what you vote, petition, and lobby for.

On the contrary, you rarely get what you want. Some hack judge is likely to knock down almost anything that the voters want, and there are innumerable examples of that happening. In addition, we are required to choose between only two parties, or in some states like California, candidates representing the same party! And if you think that a petition is guaranteed to bring results, you might still be using your junior high civics book for that information rather than real life.

 

[Albion]

I’m betting you don’t actually remember that...

I do remember that. Are you trying to say you do not?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I’m aware of it, but it’s been nothing but a plan for two years.

At least it's an economically feasible plan...

 

[civilwarbuff]

I’m betting you don’t actually remember that...

Oh yeah, I am old enough to remember that....even when Kennedy was assasinated.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

They built a small one about 10 years ago next to a small town that sits close to I70 and the Indiana border, needless to say it's nothing more than an empty cornfield now.

They tried putting one off the Mass. coast and all the rich liberals (and conservatives) got it shut down because they did not want their view spoiled..

 

[cow451]

If the idea is to stimulate the economy, you want to invest in something that’s economically feasible.

But...but...AOC!

 

[carlv_52]

No, but I would stop listening to the person recommending stocks that simply just tank.....

This sort of approach to skepticism of climate change (based on the fact that the worst predicted hasn't yet happened) would lead people to NOT support seismic retrofit on office buildings in San Francisco.

People have been predicting the "Big one" in San Fran for decades now. Is it because seismologists have NO IDEA how the earth functions or what causes earthquakes? Nope. But predicting a disaster is very hard on a short term. But we KNOW with 100% certainty that at SOME TIME there will be an earthquake in SF that is as large or larger than 1906. We KNOW this because we know how the tectonic plates work.

This is exactly the same. We are seeing the data and we KNOW how the climate works to a reasonable approximation. We KNOW what we are heading to. Will it become obvious to the most hardened skeptic in 3 years? Maybe, maybe not. Will it become so in 50-100 years? Far more likely. Will it happen within the next 100-150 years? There's a pretty high likelihood.

The best part is that the longer we wait the LESS OUR OPTIONS EXIST. We've already pretty much sealed our fate because we've been having to explain simple freshman chemistry to "skeptics" in the generation population and they still aren't getting it. So we wait a few more years and nail a few more nails into our coffin.

 

[carlv_52]

If the idea is to stimulate the economy, you want to invest in something that’s economically feasible.

So NOT petroleum which gets huge sums of money in terms of subsidies in order to maintain profitability.

Furthermore, when you pay your $3.00/gallon of gas you aren't even paying the "real" cost of that gasoline! There's no coverage for the health issues caused by smog and pollution, there's ZERO coverage for the impact to the climate. Nope, you're paying for heavy duty executive bonuses and a smidge for the upkeep of your roads.

That doesn't sound like an economically feasible system in the long run.