Good Friday, a doctrine of men?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

according to what tradition you chose to trust.
likely
a church or a school you have trusted and relied on until today,
maybe all your life.

I trust whoever can count correctly...and that isn't you

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it."
Time to live with it today.
If God permits.
"Unless the Father in heaven grants, no man can receive anything"
Truth costs a lot.
Friends, family, church sometimes. Job, etc
At all cost, get truth.

Bye bye for now.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

"Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it."
Time to live with it today.
If God permits.
"Unless the Father in heaven grants, no man can receive anything"
Truth costs a lot.
Friends, family, church sometimes. Job, etc
At all cost, get truth.

Bye bye for now.

Back at ya! I live with this truth just fine

 

[Ken Rank]

I just don't see how you can get around an eyewitness account, which by the way, Yeshua did not correct them.

And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus...
...But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done.

So we KNOW that day was Sunday. That day was the THIRD DAY since the events happened on the 14th. So it was Sunday the 16th. Saturday was the 15th and Friday was the 14th...

It isn't getting around an eye witness account, it is understanding that the eye witness used an idiom... an ABSTRACT manner of speech. When he said, "three days AND three nights" then he meant "any part of three days and nights." I shared two verses from 1 Samuel where in one place it was "three days and nights" and then that same time, in the next verse, was referred to idiomatically as "three days."

You are clinging to a verse that says three days... and ignoring Yeshua when he said, "three days and nights." Either that is in conflict of at least one of those is an idiom. Since "three days AND NIGHTS" can't mean "just three days" then I lean toward accepting "and nights" as meaning Friday doesn't work. But you are welcome to take it as you see it. Again... we are not at odds with the core message here... just with how we count to get there.

 

[Ken Rank]

I just don't see how you can get around an eyewitness account, which by the way, Yeshua did not correct them.

And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus...
...But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done.

So we KNOW that day was Sunday. That day was the THIRD DAY since the events happened on the 14th. So it was Sunday the 16th. Saturday was the 15th and Friday was the 14th...

Don't forget Bob... that "Sunday" began on what we call Saturday night. By what we call "Sunday" morning... when the sun rose... the tomb was ALREADY empty. He wasn't even in the tomb on SunDAY...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It isn't getting around an eye witness account, it is understanding that the eye witness used an idiom... an ABSTRACT manner of speech. When he said, "three days AND three nights" then he meant "any part of three days and nights." I shared two verses from 1 Samuel where in one place it was "three days and nights" and then that same time, in the next verse, was referred to idiomatically as "three days."

You are clinging to a verse that says three days... and ignoring Yeshua when he said, "three days and nights." Either that is in conflict of at least one of those is an idiom. Since "three days AND NIGHTS" can't mean "just three days" then I lean toward accepting "and nights" as meaning Friday doesn't work. But you are welcome to take it as you see it. Again... we are not at odds with the core message here... just with how we count to get there.

I disagree and I proved my point with the road to Emmaus account which is not an idiom but direct eyewitness, but go in peace...Shalom

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Don't forget Bob... that "Sunday" began on what we call Saturday night. By what we call "Sunday" morning... when the sun rose... the tomb was ALREADY empty. He wasn't even in the tomb on SunDAY...

Exactly! Raised after sunset On the THIRD Day

 

[Root of Jesse]

Christ said he would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth.
Show me your 3 nights.

Where does he say that?

 

[Root of Jesse]

The Star of Bethlehem?

There's a documentary called "The Star of Bethlehem" and a website to see the logic of it and make sense of all the evidence in Scripture.

 

[Ken Rank]

I disagree and I proved my point with the road to Emmaus account which is not an idiom but direct eyewitness, but go in peace...Shalom

Brother... you didn't prove anything. To the Hebrew, "three days" can mean... "the day after tomorrow" (which fits a Friday crucifixion) and it can mean "any part of three days" and it can also mean "any part of three days and nights." But when Yeshua said, "three days AND NIGHTS" that took it out of idiom mode in the sense that we can be referring only to "3 days" and now MUST INCLUDE "any part of" 3 days AND nights."

To the Hebrew, this isn't even a question... to the modern Western Christian who was raised to think in terms that don't take Hebraic idioms into consideration... it doesn't register.

Shalom.

 

[Ken Rank]

Exactly! Raised after sunset On the THIRD Day

But to that you have to ignore "and nights" which I can't and won't do. Shalom.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Brother... you didn't prove anything. To the Hebrew, "three days" can mean... "the day after tomorrow" (which fits a Friday crucifixion) and it can mean "any part of three days" and it can also mean "any part of three days and nights." But when Yeshua said, "three days AND NIGHTS" that took it out of idiom mode in the sense that we can be referring only to "3 days" and now MUST INCLUDE "any part of" 3 days AND nights."

To the Hebrew, this isn't even a question... to the modern Western Christian who was raised to think in terms that don't take Hebraic idioms into consideration... it doesn't register.

Shalom.

Believe me, I understand lots Hebraic idioms and this isn't one of them. The ONLY reason Yeshua said 3 days/nights, was because it was part of the story of Yonah. He could have said it previously many times but didn't. Why? Because He was not using the story of Yonah previously when He said "in 3 days" or "on the 3rd day", etc.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But to that you have to ignore "and nights" which I can't and won't do. Shalom.

I don't need to because the road to Emmaus account already makes it perfectly clear...

 

[Ken Rank]

Believe me, I understand lots Hebraic idioms and this isn't one of them. The ONLY reason Yeshua said 3 days/nights, was because it was part of the story of Yonah. He could have said it previously many times but didn't. Why? Because He was not using the story of Yonah previously when He said "in 3 days" or "on the 3rd day", etc.

They asked for a sign... he said no sign would be given BUT the one of Jonah. He then said, "JUST AS JONAH WAS three days and nights in the belly of a fish, so shall the son of man be three days and nights in the heart of the earth."

So here is the deal... "three days" can be used idiomatically to mean "three days and nights" and I shared a biblical example. But "three days AND NIGHTS" is not EVER USED to mean only 3 days. This is an understanding that is many thousands of years old. When Yeshua said, "three days AND NIGHTS" it meant any part of 3 consecutive days and nights.

 

[Ken Rank]

I don't need to because the road to Emmaus account already makes it perfectly clear...

Yes yes... grab one idiomatic verse, hold it up as if literal, and pit it against anything that doesn't agree with your understanding. Messiah said 3 days AND NIGHTS... you do not account for 3 nights... so, I don't and won't agree but you are welcome to believe as you do. I really don't care... I just assume you stop responding. I think 3 days and nights and you think only 3 days. Everyone knows this... there is nothing more than needs to be said.

Shalom friend.
Ken

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes yes... grab one idiomatic verse, hold it up as if literal, and pit it against anything that doesn't agree with your understanding. Messiah said 3 days AND NIGHTS... you do not account for 3 nights... so, I don't and won't agree but you are welcome to believe as you do. I really don't care... I just assume you stop responding. I think 3 days and nights and you think only 3 days. Everyone knows this... there is nothing more than needs to be said.

Shalom friend.
Ken

LOL, you call it an idiomatic verse?!?!? When Yeshua is clearly using a story comparison? And you say the sign is a dead man in a tomb? The sign is the resurrection, but He was not going to tell them that...

 

[Ken Rank]

LOL, you call it an idiomatic verse?!?!? When Yeshua is clearly using a story comparison? And you say the sign is a dead man in a tomb? The sign is the resurrection, but He was not going to tell them that...

No, what I am saying is... to a Jew in the first century, the phrase "three days" can mean:

1. The day after tomorrow
2. Any part of three days
3. Three full days and nights
4. Any part of three days and nights

Again... that is the phrase "three days." So, "I will raise it in 3 days" can mean ANY of the 4 above. That is simply the way the language is. But when Yeshua went beyond "three days" and said specifically, "three days AND NIGHTS," then that can mean:

1. 72 hours
2. Any part of three days AND nights

What it can't mean is "only 3 days." You are not even considering this... he says, "three days and nights" and you say, "three days without nights." It doesn't work that way. Sorry... history, the language, and the culture are all against you on this.

 

[prodromos]

You might read the post I just shared and tagged you in. "Three days" is "on the third day" are idioms used elsewhere, abstractly, in Scripture. But "three days and nights" is not... it is specific.

Days and nights is the idiom. You will find it repeated many times in Scripture. It is an example of synecdoche where "day and night" is the whole which represents the part. The part can be any part of day, or night, or both.

 

[Ken Rank]

Days and nights is the idiom. You will find it repeated many times in Scripture. It is an example of synecdoche where "day and night" is the whole which represents the part. The part can be any part of day, or night, or both.

Actually, it is the other way around. We can run through the Targumim, Mishnah, Tosefta, other ancient Jewish writings and Scripture.... "three days" can mean any part of three days, only 3 daytimes, 3 days and nights, the day after tomorrow, and so forth.

"And nights" does not refer to the daytime, it is specifically night. It is still somewhat idiomatic in that it can be just minutes of one night and still be "one night." But "three days and nights" demands part of 3 consecutive days and nights.

 

[prodromos]

Actually, it is the other way around.

No, it is not.