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GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    How so?

    You state if the fourth commandment is not observed your name cannot be written in the lambs book of life.

    But where obedience to Jesus teaching is concerned, you say you are no one's judge
     
  2. listed

    listed are you?

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    Those laws aren't the laws given to Israel at Sinai.
     
  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    What is Gods seal in the believer?

    And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
    Eph4:30
     
  4. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    • Jesus knew the thief's heart it is called Grace thank you Lord
    It does not invalidate Jesus statement of If you love me keep my commandments is valid as the thief had a conversion on the cross and his sins were forgiven it has to be this way as there are no confessed sins in heaven, all the redeemed have their sins covered by the blood of Jesus.
     
  5. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    it says you are sealed but does not say what the seal is.

    What is the seal? God never forces anything on anyone it has to be a free choice by us.
     
  6. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    You don't agree the Holy Spirit us your seal for the day if redemption. The Bible states he is
     
  7. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Okay what laws laws are they then?
     
  8. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Please provide a verse that says the HOLY SPIRIT is the seal and not the sealer
     
  9. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    It would take too long to go through everything that would make me conscious I sinned. The only answer I can give, is the one I gave you.
     
  10. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    will get back to you all later hoiney do list calls whike it is under 100 degrees

    God Bless us all
     
  11. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit is your seal, for the Holy Spirit DOES NOT dwell in the unsaved, only the saved, as you should know.
    Having believed you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit, guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are Gods possession-to the praise of His glory
    Eph1:13&14
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  12. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I have a question for you.

    If God writes the law in your mind he desires you to follow, you must know in your mind what is placed there, so you must instinctively be aware of what that law is in your mind. And law placed in your heart must bring heartfelt consciousness of sin when you wilfully transgress it, for:
    Through the law we become conscious of sin rom 3:20

    So why, are you only conscious of which laws you believe should be obeyed, by studying the word of God in historical hermeneutics?
     
  13. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Hello friend,

    I probably should start by replying to your earlier posts, but there are some important points to make in this one.

    Again, crosses were never uses as a means of disposing of outdated laws, but rather what was written on crosses were the charges against the person being crucified (Matthew 27:37), and this is what is being referred to as the handwriting of ordinances that are against us. In other words, they wrote the violations of the law that the person had committed as explanation for why they were being crucified, not the laws themselves, so they didn't have to legislate new laws every time someone was crucified. This fits perfectly with our sins or violations of God's Law been nailed to Messiah's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty of our sins, but does not fit with him dying to free us to do what God has revealed to be sin. Titus 2:14 does not say that He gave himself to redeem us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness.

    God's holy days are important foreshadows of what is to come that are extremely rich with teachings about God, God's plan of redemption, and what we will be doing during Messiah's reign. Paul was writing Colossians 2 to encourage them to keep obeying God's holy days and to not let any man keep them from obeying God.

    God's Law is inclusive of any law that God has ever commanded either directly or indirectly and it is always a sin to disobey any of God's commands, so you are creating a false distinction. The laws of Moses were commanded by God through Moses acting as a mediator, so they were not given by the authority of Moses, but by the authority of God, and are therefore also required. In Deuteronomy 8:6, it does not describe them as the ways of Moses, but as the ways of God. They are God's ways because they all teach us about Him and about how to reflect his attributes to the world. For example, the ceremonial laws are God's instructions for how to reflect His holiness. The blood of goats and bulls never took away sin (Hebrews 10:4), so the law of Moses were never given as a prescriptive cure for sin, but rather a relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:4), so it has only ever been through our intimate relationship with Christ that our sins are cleansed both in the OT and NT, and the Law teaches us how to grow in that relationship.

    All of God's laws invite us to ponder why He commanded them because they were given to teach us about Him and how to reflect His attributes, so I completely agree that they point to Christ, and furthermore they still point to him because they are still extremely rich with teachings about him and are still important foreshadows of what is to come. However, if we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, then at the end of our ponderings, we will still obey what He has commanded. Again, what was nailed to his cross were our sins or violations of the Law, not the Law itself.

    1 Peter 1:14-16 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

    In these verses Peter told us to have a holy conduct and then directly quoted OT Scripture in regard to what it means to have a holy conduct. For example:

    Leviticus 11:44-45 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. 45 For I am the Lord who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”

    So refraining from eating unclean animals is a way that God instructed for how to act in accordance with His eternal holiness. It should also be relatively straightforward that part of what it means to have a holy conduct involves keeping God's holy days. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, it says that we are part of a holy nation, so again we should therefore follow the instructions that God has given for how to live as a holy nation.

    I completely agree. God's Law was given to reveal how to have a holy conduct, but not how to become holy. So no amount of doing things like refraining from eating unclean animals will ever cause someone who is not holy to become holy, but rather it is God alone who makes us holy and and because we have been made holy, we are therefore required to follow God's instructions for how to have a holy conduct. The same thing goes for God's righteousness. God's Law reveals how to practice or train in righteousness in accordance with God's righteousness, such as to help the poor, but no amount of doing things like helping the poor will ever cause someone who is not righteous to become righteous because the one and only way to become declared righteous is by faith, and by the same faith we are therefore required to train in righteousness (1 John 3:10, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

    So ceremonial laws are essentially God's instructructions to people that He has made holy for how to therefore do what is holy in accordance with His holiness. Christ live in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law and set an example of how to obey it for his followers to follow.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  14. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Jesus summarized the greatest two commands as to love God and our neighbor and that that the rest of the laws are just examples of how obey those two commands. For example, the first five of the Ten Commandments are in regard to loving our creators while the last five are in regard to loving our neighbor, but all of the other commands in the Bible can be divided into these categories, so love fulfills the Law because it is obeying it as it should be obeyed. So to say that no one can keep the Law is to say that it is impossible to love anyone, which is quite clearly false. Furthermore, it is in direct disagreement with God, who said that what He commanded was not too difficult (Deuteronomy 30:11-14), which Paul also echoed in Romans 10:5-10 in regard to what it means to what our faith says for how to submit to Jesus as Lord. In 1 John 5:3, it also confirms that the commands of God are not burdensome.

    While God's Law certainly points out our sin, that is far from the only thing that it does because it is primarily given to teach us how to walk in God's ways in accordance with His attributes (Deuteronomy 8:6): holiness, righteousness, goodness (Romans 7:12), justice, mercy, faith (Matthew 23:23), and other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 34:6-7). Pointing our sin is only a step in leading us back to repentance and obedience. The Law points us to Christ because he is the only one who can redeem us from our sin and purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works (Titus 2:14). God does not command us to do good works all throughout the Bible and then turn around and show disdain for our good works, so the righteous deed of the saints are not like filthy rags, but rather they are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8). In Isaiah 64:6, it was not God speaking, but rather it was the people complaining about how they thought God was viewing their righteous deeds. In Deuteronomy 6:24 and Deuteronomy 10:13, God said that what He commanded was for His people's own good, so living in obedience to God's commands has never been about trying to save ourselves through our own effort, but rather it has always been about living by faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live.

    None of the verses you cited specify that they are only speaking about ten of God's laws. We have it recorded that Jesus talked about obeying more than the 10 commandments, so you can't talk about the importantance of obeying his commands while at the same time disregarding most of them.

    It's like you are on the right path in focusing on the important theme of obeying God rather than man, but stop short of the delight, the privilege, and the blessings that could be yours by letting man limit you to only obeying only ten of God's commands. Those who are in Christ ought to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6), and the way that he walked was in perfect obedience to all of God's commands.
     
  15. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What law Stewart? Why does the same writer in the same chapter tell us if we believe in Jesus and love our fellow man like Jesus loves us that we are doing the will of God? Why must you think we have to keep Torah in order to be sinless? Why didn't John tell us it is Torah that we have to keep in order to be sinless? Instead of parroting others why not read the truth for yourself?
    1Jn3

    19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
     
  16. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    "The Law and the Prophets" (1) is a phrase that specifically refers to the five books of Moses and the eight books of Prophets in the Hebrew canon, so there is no way to reduce that to only the Ten Commandments. I would agree with (2), but I think he was just listing examples of commands in regard to loving our neighbor, and where he lacked was in the commands to loving our creators. In (3), Jesus said that all of the Law and the Prophets hang on the greatest two commands, so all of the laws in the OT are included. I agree with (4-5), but they don't specify the Ten Commandments. With (6), Jesus said in John 14:23-24 that his teaching was not his own, but that of the Father, which was a lot more than just the Ten Commandments. In regard to (7), this is a warning you should take more seriously because you are relaxing more the least of the commands when you teach that we don't have to obey ceremonial laws. I agree with (8), but again same point.

    I agree with (1 and 9), but (2-5,7) don't specify the Ten Commandments, while (6 and 8) actually inconsistent with only speaking about the Ten Commandments.

    None of these points specify that they are only talking about the Ten Commandments.

    See above.

    See above.

    I agree.

    I also agree.
     
  17. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Nothing you have written in the above shows that law written on stone is not now on tablets of human hearts.
    Indeed, you appear very confused about the subject.
    One minute you say the law got abolished, the next it exists to make us conscious of sin
     
  18. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I mean, perish the thought a Christian in their heart wouldn't want to murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness for God transferred that law into their hearts.
    Scandalous!!!
     
  19. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Bob S isn't far from the truth if he did but know it. Law does exist, and it makes us conscious of sin, and it seers our consciences when we wilfully transgress it for that law is in our hearts. But law does NOT exist as a law of righteousness for the believer
     
  20. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    The internets a strange place at times.
    On the one hand we have people, in reality preaching righteousness of observing the law/ follow after the written code not the Holy Spirit( for you cannot do both) rom7:6

    And on the other hand we have people claiming what was written in the law on stone all got abolished. Well sometimes they believe it all got abolished anyway.
     
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